SPS and Nitrates
- Thread starter Swimfest
- Start date
drainbamage101
New member
5 is better than 10, but you'd really like to have 0.
How often water changes? how long has the tank been set up?
Yes, trimming the chaeto can help encourage new growth, also a good change to clear any debris out of it as it can trap a lot that creates a nitrate factory.
How often water changes? how long has the tank been set up?
Yes, trimming the chaeto can help encourage new growth, also a good change to clear any debris out of it as it can trap a lot that creates a nitrate factory.
Alex T.
Active member
Well, I've been there and back again. I've run a ULNS with zero readings on phosphate and nitrate while vodka dosing, and currently hover around 2.5 ppm nitrate with no detectable phosphate. I can tell you that running a ULNS caused more problems. I was literally starving my corals. They started to pale in coloration, polyp extension decreased and growth almost came to a halt. I bought some very expensive amino acid suppllements, stopped vodka dosing and everything came back even better. I now no longer vodka dose, amino acid dose or overfeed to compensate for such a low nutrient system. To my surprise, nitrates crept up to 10 and things looked better than ever. They slowly dropped with some water changes and lesser feedings to my current level of 2.5 which is right where I target to keep them.
Most who run these ULNS (Ultra Low Nutrient) systems dose back amino acids and all kinds of other expensive stuff to help add a little pollution to their tanks. Why go that route if you can keep a little pollution in it at all times? Nitrate in small amounts (under 10ppm) really doesn't seem to affect coral coloration and growth. I'm speaking for myself here, but there are many tank of the months that ran as high as 10ppm nitrate in their SPS dominated reefs. If you're around 5, it's already been expressed to me that you're just fine. Coloration is great, polyp extension is beautiful and growth has not halted or reduced at all. I've come to realize that the "no detectable" readings play with fire.
Check out the coloration in the following tank of the month winners...but more importantly look at their detectable nitrate parameters. I'd be proud to own any one of these "dirty" tanks. There's more, but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head when I worried about nitrates.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/58-tank-of-the-month
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/66-tank-of-
the-month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/totm/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/totm/index.php
Most who run these ULNS (Ultra Low Nutrient) systems dose back amino acids and all kinds of other expensive stuff to help add a little pollution to their tanks. Why go that route if you can keep a little pollution in it at all times? Nitrate in small amounts (under 10ppm) really doesn't seem to affect coral coloration and growth. I'm speaking for myself here, but there are many tank of the months that ran as high as 10ppm nitrate in their SPS dominated reefs. If you're around 5, it's already been expressed to me that you're just fine. Coloration is great, polyp extension is beautiful and growth has not halted or reduced at all. I've come to realize that the "no detectable" readings play with fire.
Check out the coloration in the following tank of the month winners...but more importantly look at their detectable nitrate parameters. I'd be proud to own any one of these "dirty" tanks. There's more, but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head when I worried about nitrates.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/58-tank-of-the-month
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/66-tank-of-
the-month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/totm/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/totm/index.php
ninjazx777
Member
Anthony calfo gave s speach. At a frag swap here in Iowa last fall and he said he likes to keep nitrates between 5-10 he said sps corals will be healthier and grow faster and still maintain good color
Alex T.
Active member
Swimfest,
I remember Anthony Calfo's reasoning after hearing him at MACNA here in Atlantic City last year. In the wild, sps corals are predominately in clear water with bright sunny skies all day long.
Even though their nutrient levels are measured close to zero if any at all, at night the available planktonic food available would crash the best skimmed sps tank in hours. The reason it's not available as much during the day is that planktonic eating fish consume most of the available food source before it can be consumed by the reef.
We simply can't provide this volume of food to our sps corals in a captive system without full out algae outbreaks and skimmers going down for hours at a time until they catch up. Keeping some nutrients in the water column available to your corals is not only smart, it's easier to do than remembering to dose all the ULNS stuff that costs a fortune. I never really understood why these people work so hard to strip their tanks of proteinaceous waste and byproducts only to later add the exact building block of protein...amino acids!!!
To me, that's analogous to a bodybuilder eating the necessary protein to gain muscle mass, only to put his finger down his throat to throw it all up so that he can pop a few amino acid pills and down a few protein shakes.
Doesn't make much sense when you think about it does it?
I remember Anthony Calfo's reasoning after hearing him at MACNA here in Atlantic City last year. In the wild, sps corals are predominately in clear water with bright sunny skies all day long.
Even though their nutrient levels are measured close to zero if any at all, at night the available planktonic food available would crash the best skimmed sps tank in hours. The reason it's not available as much during the day is that planktonic eating fish consume most of the available food source before it can be consumed by the reef.
We simply can't provide this volume of food to our sps corals in a captive system without full out algae outbreaks and skimmers going down for hours at a time until they catch up. Keeping some nutrients in the water column available to your corals is not only smart, it's easier to do than remembering to dose all the ULNS stuff that costs a fortune. I never really understood why these people work so hard to strip their tanks of proteinaceous waste and byproducts only to later add the exact building block of protein...amino acids!!!
To me, that's analogous to a bodybuilder eating the necessary protein to gain muscle mass, only to put his finger down his throat to throw it all up so that he can pop a few amino acid pills and down a few protein shakes.
Doesn't make much sense when you think about it does it?
Alex T.
Active member
Thanks Reefinder!
Glad to see I'm not alone in this belief.
I think too many times we get hung up on our parameters (Nitrate,Phosphate, Calcium, Alkalinity, Specific Gravity) that we try to search for the extremes of every single one; almost as if there's a holy grail of reefkeeping. There is...stability. Then, in an effort to "get it right" we do it too fast and cause a problem that we didn't previously have to begin with. Unfortunately, been there and done that!!!
Looking through Tank of the Month information is where I've learned the most about reefkeeping...especially with sps. You'll notice that almost every possible skimmer, and every possible means of filtration, water parameters and lighting work. There's a balance and thresholds for every system, and it's not so much finding "what works for you", but more a matter of what method can you afford, and keep on top of with proper husbandry on a committed basis. I don't skip water changes...ever. I think there's a certain "centering" of a system that happens with water changes that can't be dosed or compensated for in any other way. The pioneers of this hobby made this the staple in keeping these colorful sticks we treasure so much. That's one thing that the best in this hobby all have in common. Too many newbies are inundated with all the new dosing, lighting and skimmer technology and all the other stuff that they forget the fundamentals that are the backbones of every great reeftank...bright lighting, an ample amount of liverock, visible and brisk flow rates, an efficient skimmer and a way to get calcium and alkalinity into the system with a minimal stocking and feeding of hardy reef fishes.
A friend of mine who got into sps corals a year ago asked me the following, to which I replied:
What's your nitrate? Below 10
What's your phosphate? Test kit says undetectable, but there's no algae so I don't worry about it anymore.
What's your calcium? In the 400's
What's your alkalinity? Over 8
What skimmer do you run? The biggest one I can afford.
The only specific answer I gave him was when he asked about water changes. I religiously change 25 gallons in my 150 sps/clam with 35 gallon sump every Sunday morning after walking my dogs. I siphon everything I see, scrape the glass and blow the rocks clean. I use 100 micron filter socks and clean the skimmer so it does the job that I bought it to do at an optimal level. If there's salt creep anywhere, I clean it. If a sump looks dirty, I shop vac it. If something looks useless...I remove it. I don't use a chiller either. My tank has swung from 76 degrees in the evening and early morning to 84 or 85 during the day. I've never lost a coral due to temperature swings within reason. Mother nature does this too. Have you ever been swimming in the ocean at night after a hot, humid day? I have. It's cold. Even in the tropics. Cold at night is good. It's why the sun goes down and the Earth cools in the evening. Keeping too tight of a temperature parameter I believe weakens a coral's natural immune system to temperature. Sort of like keeping your kid inside for fear of the cruel harsh world outside. That kid's going to get his *** kicked by life when you're not around to protect him anymore.
Remember, coral reefs have been here longer than man. There's better gas exchange and higher oxygen levels to cope with the next day's heat. I always keep in mind that those who sell products to our hobby (no matter how reputable) have to pay their bills and put food on their family's tables. Sometimes this conflicts with what's in your best interest as a hobbyist.
Take it all with a grain of salt...no pun intended.
Glad to see I'm not alone in this belief.
I think too many times we get hung up on our parameters (Nitrate,Phosphate, Calcium, Alkalinity, Specific Gravity) that we try to search for the extremes of every single one; almost as if there's a holy grail of reefkeeping. There is...stability. Then, in an effort to "get it right" we do it too fast and cause a problem that we didn't previously have to begin with. Unfortunately, been there and done that!!!
Looking through Tank of the Month information is where I've learned the most about reefkeeping...especially with sps. You'll notice that almost every possible skimmer, and every possible means of filtration, water parameters and lighting work. There's a balance and thresholds for every system, and it's not so much finding "what works for you", but more a matter of what method can you afford, and keep on top of with proper husbandry on a committed basis. I don't skip water changes...ever. I think there's a certain "centering" of a system that happens with water changes that can't be dosed or compensated for in any other way. The pioneers of this hobby made this the staple in keeping these colorful sticks we treasure so much. That's one thing that the best in this hobby all have in common. Too many newbies are inundated with all the new dosing, lighting and skimmer technology and all the other stuff that they forget the fundamentals that are the backbones of every great reeftank...bright lighting, an ample amount of liverock, visible and brisk flow rates, an efficient skimmer and a way to get calcium and alkalinity into the system with a minimal stocking and feeding of hardy reef fishes.
A friend of mine who got into sps corals a year ago asked me the following, to which I replied:
What's your nitrate? Below 10
What's your phosphate? Test kit says undetectable, but there's no algae so I don't worry about it anymore.
What's your calcium? In the 400's
What's your alkalinity? Over 8
What skimmer do you run? The biggest one I can afford.
The only specific answer I gave him was when he asked about water changes. I religiously change 25 gallons in my 150 sps/clam with 35 gallon sump every Sunday morning after walking my dogs. I siphon everything I see, scrape the glass and blow the rocks clean. I use 100 micron filter socks and clean the skimmer so it does the job that I bought it to do at an optimal level. If there's salt creep anywhere, I clean it. If a sump looks dirty, I shop vac it. If something looks useless...I remove it. I don't use a chiller either. My tank has swung from 76 degrees in the evening and early morning to 84 or 85 during the day. I've never lost a coral due to temperature swings within reason. Mother nature does this too. Have you ever been swimming in the ocean at night after a hot, humid day? I have. It's cold. Even in the tropics. Cold at night is good. It's why the sun goes down and the Earth cools in the evening. Keeping too tight of a temperature parameter I believe weakens a coral's natural immune system to temperature. Sort of like keeping your kid inside for fear of the cruel harsh world outside. That kid's going to get his *** kicked by life when you're not around to protect him anymore.
Remember, coral reefs have been here longer than man. There's better gas exchange and higher oxygen levels to cope with the next day's heat. I always keep in mind that those who sell products to our hobby (no matter how reputable) have to pay their bills and put food on their family's tables. Sometimes this conflicts with what's in your best interest as a hobbyist.
Take it all with a grain of salt...no pun intended.
well said
