Sps and temp low 80's

[biggles]

My temp goes from 78-81 most days now i'm running the 400W Radium, 78-82 is nothing to stress about at all Brent. My last tank used to hit 86 in summer some days and nothing rolled over and died.

 

[brad_G]

I go from 72 to 78 almost everyday....some days down to 70. I feel the corals can adapt to swings and eventually make them stronger or more resistant to changes. I also feel that a stable time is probably better for the overall growth and health.

 

[Peter Eichler]

In the winter my tank usually goes from about 76 on really cold days to 80 when it's an average Wisconsin winter. In the summer it's generally a low of 80 and a high of 83ish, if it goes higher I'm fine with it, but being in a basement of a well cooled house it generally only goes higher during extreme heat. My old tanks used to hit mid 80's regularly with no detrimental effects.

I recently had my tank hit 68f and only had problems with a couple corals, two RTN'd in portions, but after being fragged the corals pulled through. The rest didn't even lose any color. Hard to say if that has anything to do with the fluctuating temps, but I at least have a feeling that if I had been maintaining one temperature all along for years I wouldn't have fared so well.

 

[red clay]

This is odd, so don try this at home. I used to work for a well known reef store in Dallas TX that caught on fire. Obviously the temp reach some extremes in many tanks. I am in no way implying cause and effect, but the display tank spawned. It was undamaged from the fire, but I thought it was odd that an extreme increase in temp and the spawning occurred around the same time

 

[Peter Eichler]

This is odd, so don try this at home. I used to work for a well known reef store in Dallas TX that caught on fire. Obviously the temp reach some extremes in many tanks. I am in no way implying cause and effect, but the display tank spawned. It was undamaged from the fire, but I thought it was odd that an extreme increase in temp and the spawning occurred around the same time

So you're saying we should start a fire near our tanks in order to induce spawning? :lol::xlbirthday::furious::smokin:

 

[biggles]

You go first Peter...........

 

[a.browning]

My temp has been getting up into the low 80's 82 max can this be an issue?i had my temp probe in sump and it's been reading 78 and recently moved it to actual dt were it reads 82 My tank seems ok but I do lose a piece here and there when I get new frags thanks for any input I'm going to add another chiller in the next day or 2

82 is perfectly fine and definitely doesn't warrant the use of a chiller. Above 84 is when I would start thinking about that.

 

[red clay]

Peter, you caught me. I secretly wanted to see who would try it. Lol. But seriously, I agree that extremes are part of the cycle of life. With all other living things, draughts, floods, cold, whatnot can't spur spawning, etc. no different than creating a safe broader temperature range. Great topic everyone. I've been sending this link to others

 

[BrentH]

I'm glad to see pretty much everyone's tank goes up and down within about. 5 degrees the only bad thing I've always thought about fluctuating temp also is it stresses the fish? Or promotes ich?.im prob way off on that as we'll lol . The corals spawning from the high temps or fire is interesting I think I read or heard somewhere that corals or clams spawn.when severely stressed as a last resort to spread there seed or something like that maybe the case on that

 

[RadReefer]

My tank is kept at 78 degrees during the fall through spring. In the summer months it increases and swings from 80-84 degrees on a daily basis. My corals all grow significantly during this time period and coloration is normal. Also, I will note that the tank gets more natural sunlight during the winter but this doesn't seem to be as much of a factor for growth than the temp. My rock flower anemones spawn when temps increase during summer months as well. One of the downsides to increased temp I find is increased algae growth. Bacteria also multiply exponentially faster at increasing temps which can lead to trouble for coral or other inhabitants.

 

[BrentH]

I'm actually having some Dino issues lately it seems to be going away my. Do cartridge was exhausted but have noticed the Dino's seem to be a little more when temp on higher side hmmm

 

[tmz]

Diurinal daily temperature swings are common on reefs varyng rom a degree or two F to as much as 5, IIRC. Ther is plent of data on diurinal reef temps avaialbe on the web.

Higher temps increase metabolic rates, so all the organisms go faster.

Lower temp water holds more oxygen than warmer water.

Nightime hypoxia can be an issue for some corals as photosynthesis stops adding O2 to the water. Lower nightime temps might offset that a bit.

FWIW, I run my system at 77 to 79 F daily variation with occasional drops to 76 and jumps to 80

 

[Peter Eichler]

Diurinal daily temperature swings are common on reefs varyng rom a degree or two F to as much as 5, IIRC. Ther is plent of data on diurinal reef temps avaialbe on the web.

Higher temps increase metabolic rates, so all the organisms go faster.

Lower temp water holds more oxygen than warmer water.

Nightime hypoxia can be an issue for some corals as photosynthesis stops adding O2 to the water. Lower nightime temps might offset that a bit.

FWIW, I run my system at 77 to 79 F daily variation with occasional drops to 76 and jumps to 80

Depending on the reef, daily swings can be much higher that 5f.

The difference in oxygen saturation levels at say 78 vs. 86 is so small (7%) that it's not even worth discussing. In a properly functioning reef, oxygen levels will be fairly close to saturation and far far away from levels that could cause any stress to inhabitants and will certainly not go low enough to cause hypoxia in corals.

 

[tmz]

FWI, Min rune 77 to 78 with occsional drops to 76, rare 75 and jumps to 80,rare 81. Seem to get a little more growth at higher temps. Metabolsim increases with temp.
Worth noting cooler water holds more oxygen and will hold a little more calcium and carbonate in solution.

 

[Acronic]

Not to mention calcification is better at lower temps

Plenty of corals are collected in cooler waters. There is some merit to having lower temps when introducing fresh imports.

 

[tmz]

The difference in oxygen saturation levels at say 78 vs. 86 is so small (7%) that it's not even worth discussing. In a properly functioning reef, oxygen levels will be fairly close to saturation and far far away from levels that could cause any stress to inhabitants and will certainly not go low enough to cause hypoxia in corals.

It's more like 9% between 75.2 and 86F which sounds significant enough to me to notice especially when nightime oxygen levels fall due to a cessation of photosynthesis and replacemnt by respiratory activity.

It's your opinion that this 9% O2 reduction is not important ;I guess based on your statement ,if I read it correctly. , You are entitled to your opinion .
For clarification, though, could you explain; How do you know the extra -9% low O2 won't trigger localized hypoxic conditions detrimental to corals?What is the critical theshold in your opinion? Why do you think - 9% isn't worth noting as a factor.

For those interested in more information on oxygen levels and potential hypoxia these articles by Eric Borneman are very informative:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

These are a few excerpts:



"...In the earlier part of this article, I described the role of oxygen in seawater and its potential effects on marine species. I noted, particularly, that hypoxia is likely to occur in reef waters, within coral colonies, at the coral tissue's surface, and that hypoxia potentially affects species exposed to it. The scientific literature suggests that such conditions might be relatively common at night..."

...The second factor is temperature; solubility of oxygen is inversely proportional to temperature. Cooler water can dissolve more oxygen than warmer water, a fact that is occasionally mentioned when discussing optimal temperatures for aquaria.

The other two factors noted in the article are pressure/ not an issue for aquariums and salinity

 

[CW from the OC]

It's more like 9% between 75.2 and 86F which sounds significant enough to me to notice especially when nightime oxygen levels fall due to a cessation of photosynthesis and replacemnt by respiratory activity.

It's your opinion that this 9% O2 reduction is not important ;I guess based on your statement ,if I read it correctly. , You are entitled to your opinion .
For clarification, though, could you explain; How do you know the extra -9% low O2 won't trigger localized hypoxic conditions detrimental to corals?What is the critical theshold in your opinion? Why do you think - 9% isn't worth noting as a factor.

For those interested in more information on oxygen levels and potential hypoxia these articles by Eric Borneman are very informative:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

These are a few excerpts:



"...In the earlier part of this article, I described the role of oxygen in seawater and its potential effects on marine species. I noted, particularly, that hypoxia is likely to occur in reef waters, within coral colonies, at the coral tissue's surface, and that hypoxia potentially affects species exposed to it. The scientific literature suggests that such conditions might be relatively common at night..."

...The second factor is temperature; solubility of oxygen is inversely proportional to temperature. Cooler water can dissolve more oxygen than warmer water, a fact that is occasionally mentioned when discussing optimal temperatures for aquaria.

The other two factors noted in the article are pressure/ not an issue for aquariums and salinity

Hey Tom, I find your line of thought on oxygen very interesting. When I feed corals at night, I rountinley turn off the return pump (and leave on 2 Vortec's). This takes the skimmer off line. You are making me wonder if I am making the reduction of O2 worse. And perhaps injuring corals fish etc.....

 

[tmz]

Hey Tom, I find your line of thought on oxygen very interesting. When I feed corals at night, I rountinley turn off the return pump (and leave on 2 Vortec's). This takes the skimmer off line. You are making me wonder if I am making the reduction of O2 worse. And perhaps injuring corals fish etc.....

I do not turn the skimmer or pumps off. I broadcast feed the tank just before lights out. I don't use any mechanical filtration; there is usually plenty of pariculate organic matter flowting around. I also dose vokda and vinegar so there are a good number of bacteria in the food web too . I'd rather have the oxygenation than the amount of food that may happen to be pushed out with the skimmate.

 

[Peter Eichler]

It's more like 9% between 75.2 and 86F which sounds significant enough to me to notice especially when nightime oxygen levels fall due to a cessation of photosynthesis and replacemnt by respiratory activity.

It's your opinion that this 9% O2 reduction is not important ;I guess based on your statement ,if I read it correctly. , You are entitled to your opinion .
For clarification, though, could you explain; How do you know the extra -9% low O2 won't trigger localized hypoxic conditions detrimental to corals?What is the critical theshold in your opinion? Why do you think - 9% isn't worth noting as a factor.

For those interested in more information on oxygen levels and potential hypoxia these articles by Eric Borneman are very informative:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.php

These are a few excerpts:



"...In the earlier part of this article, I described the role of oxygen in seawater and its potential effects on marine species. I noted, particularly, that hypoxia is likely to occur in reef waters, within coral colonies, at the coral tissue's surface, and that hypoxia potentially affects species exposed to it. The scientific literature suggests that such conditions might be relatively common at night..."

...The second factor is temperature; solubility of oxygen is inversely proportional to temperature. Cooler water can dissolve more oxygen than warmer water, a fact that is occasionally mentioned when discussing optimal temperatures for aquaria.

The other two factors noted in the article are pressure/ not an issue for aquariums and salinity

Here's a good quote from Green bean that fits this discussion well...

Simple answer- no.

First of all, a functioning reef tank has nearly identical oxygen saturation as the reef in nature, including the diel cycle. Even at minimum saturation (at night) the oxygen saturation is still more than 2 times the level at which reef fish respire comfortably and about 3 times the level where real physiological stress sets in. Increasing temperature from 78-86 only reduces oxygen saturation about 7% which is almost negligible at the levels we're talking about.

There is also this idea (the Q10 rule) that as temperature increases so does the metabolism of "cold blooded" animals. It's a good model except that it doesn't match what actually happens in a lot of animals- particularly lots of fish. The reason being that it's a simple model based on enzyme kinetics which assumes the animal's whole metabolism works the same as a single isolated enzyme. What you see in the real world is that even in many "cold blooded" animals, metabolism stays roughly the same over an acclimatized range.

The caveat here is that we know essentially nothing about metabolism of reef fish vs. temperature. We don't know if they maintain a consistent respiration rate or if it increases with temp. We assume though that being from a thermally fluctuating environment such as a reef though, most probably keep a fairly constant rate over their acclimatized range rather than continuously vary their rate throughout the day.

We do actually have measurements for several species of coral and most maintain constant respiration as is expected. There are a few that don't and they see about 30-50% increases in respiration over the range of temps.

Now all of this assumes that things are working fine. What happens when the power goes out or a heater sticks on? In corals, what you see is that as temperature increases the rate of increase in respiration is roughly the same regardless of what temperature the coral was acclimatized to. What that means is that at any given temperature above the normal maximum, a coral from a colder environment will be respiring significantly more than one from a warmer environment. Again reef fish are poorly studied, but a similar response is expected.

So it gets very confusing, but the bottom line is that you aren't pushing the limits by keeping the temperature warmer (thanks TS for catching my typo) even in captivity. A lot of what we know about the response of reef organisms to temperature changes is actually from captive experiments. Plus there are actually quite a few reefers, including myself whose tanks do regularly get into the mid 80s (and sometimes even higher) without ill effect.

My own tank used to run between 82-86 all summer long for about 6 years (occasionally up to 88 and even up to 92 one time) and suffered many a power outage at those temperatures without any losses or disease attributable to the temp.

 

[tmz]

I think that suits discussion to a degree. I respectfully disagree with the conclusions in the context of this discussion,particularly for corals when the oxygen drops at night from a lack of photosynthesis and some polyps in densely packed coral growth get less flow for the most part anyway.."Pushing the limits" is vague and variable from tank to tank and even coral to coral. The fact that cooler water holds more oxygen is worth knowing and considering,imo.