sps fading, some tips burnt

[tmantaylor18]

tried moving the lights higher or corals lower?

 

[EvMiBo]

I do not have a PAR meter, but I am running a 8x39w ATI sunpower 10" off the water. I was running it for 9 hours, with all bulbs on for 7 hrs (1 hr sunrise and sunset with 2 bulbs on). As of 2 days ago I am still running 9 hrs total, but instead of 7hrs with all bulbs on I set it to 6hrs.

tried moving the lights higher or corals lower?

I've also tried moving some corals lower with no real success (at least nothing yet). I could be wrong but I don't imagine I'm frying corals with too much light. Of course I wouldn't know for sure without a par meter...

I really think it's something else, but I don't know what..? Maybe poor nutrition? Even then it seems like a stretch, but I would be interested to see what an increased bioload would do (only 7 fish in the tank currently).

 

[swk]

The t5s are so well proven to grow, I would doubt it's lighting....unless it's just too strong being an 8 bulb unit

 

[EvMiBo]

The t5s are so well proven to grow, I would doubt it's lighting....unless it's just too strong being an 8 bulb unit

I don't really think it'd the light either, could be wrong but I really doubt it. I would love to get my hands on a par meter though. Just don't feel the need to buy one (I'm trying to rent one locally if I can). Before I bought the 8 bulb unit for this tank I did my homework, there's a lot of happy corals growing out there under this fixture in a similar sized tank.

I've started feeding more as I mentioned before, and there seems to be small positive reactions from the corals. They're nowhere near where I want them, but I'm okay with baby steps in the right direction.

 

[cthedaytrader]

I have an 8 bulb ati, when I first put it on my tank and was running full bulbs, with aquablue specials, blue plus and a purple plus I burned the crap out of my corals, but I acclimated them and they were ok, I didnt see any stn. I put that fixture back on my tank at the begining o the year, and used blue plus, coral plus, a purple plus and I added in two actinics and I didn't much bleaching just my hellboy really lightened up, but thats a really low light coral. If you want to check and see if its the lights then you could just switch our some actinics and it will weaken it a bit.

But right now, I have an 8 bulb ati over a 20 gallon deep blue frag tank and I dont see any burning or bleaching and its only 8 inches off the water, but it does have two actinics in it as well. I dont know if its your light, your tank is bigger than mine and if you corals are in the lower part the tank the t5s probably wouldnt still be causing these issues.

I have had healthy thriving sps stn in a tank, when the tank is thriving, and the only thing I have been able to correlate it with is when I switch my GFO, especially the high capacity stuff, even if your phosphates are in check I think the switch and rapid depletion can cause stn. The only thing I have seen stop it is to frag the coral above the stn and and glue the frag down, rarely does the stn stop on its own, I have had great success with doing that and the frag goes on just fine, which further leads me to believe the STN is caused by a rapid change in the tank shocking the coral and the damage is done.

As far as the chemiclean stuff, I have never tried that and personally I dont know if I would continue using it, unless you stopped already, its just another variable.

Another thing is to always check your water source, and RO/DI Unit, possibly check the tds change your filters, and check and make sure you dont have chlormines.

Another thing often overlooked is outside contaminants, is the tank near a kitchen, burning foods, smoke anything that can get in the tank, household cleaners being used to too close, windows being opened near the tank, and outdoor contaminants getting in the tank.

 

[EvMiBo]

I have an 8 bulb ati, when I first put it on my tank and was running full bulbs, with aquablue specials, blue plus and a purple plus I burned the crap out of my corals, but I acclimated them and they were ok, I didnt see any stn. I put that fixture back on my tank at the begining o the year, and used blue plus, coral plus, a purple plus and I added in two actinics and I didn't much bleaching just my hellboy really lightened up, but thats a really low light coral. If you want to check and see if its the lights then you could just switch our some actinics and it will weaken it a bit.

But right now, I have an 8 bulb ati over a 20 gallon deep blue frag tank and I dont see any burning or bleaching and its only 8 inches off the water, but it does have two actinics in it as well. I dont know if its your light, your tank is bigger than mine and if you corals are in the lower part the tank the t5s probably wouldnt still be causing these issues.

Fwiw, only one coral is really STNing, green slimer - but I don't think it's a true green slimmer - I guess I'll call it a green stag.

Most of the corals are slowly fading, losing color at the flesh and polyp extension is slowly worsening I think. It's like the zooxanthellae is slowly dropping off. Some days some corals look better than they did before, but for the most part I think there's a decline.

I'm not convinced it's the lights. 10" off the water is the highest I've ever had a t5 fixture and I'm only running 6 hrs of full intensity.

I have had healthy thriving sps stn in a tank, when the tank is thriving, and the only thing I have been able to correlate it with is when I switch my GFO, especially the high capacity stuff, even if your phosphates are in check I think the switch and rapid depletion can cause stn. The only thing I have seen stop it is to frag the coral above the stn and and glue the frag down, rarely does the stn stop on its own, I have had great success with doing that and the frag goes on just fine, which further leads me to believe the STN is caused by a rapid change in the tank shocking the coral and the damage is done.

No GFO here, the only thing I was running when these frags went in was GAC, which I've since taken offline (as mentioned before) with no success, should I put it back on? :worried:

As far as the chemiclean stuff, I have never tried that and personally I dont know if I would continue using it, unless you stopped already, its just another variable.

The chemiclean process is a 48 hour deal. And I was having this issue before it. It changed nothing really as far as coral health. It did eliminate nearly all of my cyano though which is nice.

Another thing is to always check your water source, and RO/DI Unit, possibly check the tds change your filters, and check and make sure you dont have chlormines.

Zero tds, all (membrane, di resin, carbon block, sediment filter) filters were changed in June. Replaced the sediment filter a couple weeks ago and plan on changing the carbon block in December. I don't know if I have chloramines, but spoke with Buckeye Hydro (formerly known as Buckeye Field Supply) about chloramines and was told that my carbon block is strong enough to make them a non issue.

Another thing often overlooked is outside contaminants, is the tank near a kitchen, burning foods, smoke anything that can get in the tank, household cleaners being used to too close, windows being opened near the tank, and outdoor contaminants getting in the tank.

The tank is in the living room. We're non smokers, it is close to a window, and weather has been nice lately so we've had the windows open, only for a week or so though. There's a screen and the blind is usually shut. That seems like quite the long shot, and the fact that this was happening before I opened some windows makes me confident I can ignore that variable.

I feel like I've covered all of these bases already tbh. Obviously I'm missing something though...

I have been using a marine pure biomedia block, and there's some recent discussion about them leaching aluminum into aquariums. We're still unsure what exact form of aluminum it's leaching, and if it's harmful to corals, although leathers seem to be sensitive to it. It does make me wonder if it could be the problem. I may send off a water sample to triton to see what's up with my water at a more reliable level than hobby testkits. I don't test for many of the things the triton test does, and not nearly at the complexity of it.

 

[markalot]

First set of tests you posted:

Ca: 460 (salifert)
Mg: 1260 (salifert)
Alk: 8.512 (hanna checker)
pH: 8-8.3 throughout the day (apex pH probe)
temp: 77.5-79 throughout the day (apex temp probe)
K: 400 (salifert)
NO3: 10 (salifert)
PO4: waiting on new reagents of Hanna ULR 736 Phosphorus checker
GAC: 1.25 cups changed every 4 weeks. It's lignite carbon from brs.
Salt: I'm using Red Sea Salt (blue bucket). I do weekly 15g waterchanges.


Most recent:
Ca: 455 (salifert)
Mg: 1275 (salifert)
Alk: 8.512 (hanna checker)
pH: 8-8.3 throughout the day (apex pH probe)
temp: 77.5-79 throughout the day (apex temp probe)
K: 410 (salifert)
NO3: 10 (salifert)
PO4: Received new Hanna ULR 736 reagents yesterday: 11ppb x 3.066 = 33.726 / 1000 = 0.033ppm
GAC: Offline this morning

Get a Salifert KH kit and test to confirm your KH is stable. I do not believe the Alk number, especially since the Hanna is supposed to be so accurate. I think Hanna testers are junk, but that is just my opinion. Are you testing before or after a water change? Have you tried testing both before and after to see what the swing is? With SPS you can't really expect to keep parameters stable with only water changes so this might be the missing piece to the puzzle.

 

[tilo]

I'm sorry if you posted this already, but what does your bioload look like?

 

[EvMiBo]

First set of tests you posted:


Alk: 8.512 (hanna checker)


Most recent:

Alk: 8.512 (hanna checker)


Get a Salifert KH kit and test to confirm your KH is stable. I do not believe the Alk number, especially since the Hanna is supposed to be so accurate. I think Hanna testers are junk, but that is just my opinion. Are you testing before or after a water change? Have you tried testing both before and after to see what the swing is? With SPS you can't really expect to keep parameters stable with only water changes so this might be the missing piece to the puzzle.

Fwiw hanna's alk checker seems to be their best checker. I'm not sure if it's truely accurate, but it seems precise, which would tell me that my alk isn't swaying too much. Hanna's phosphorus ULR is good too (the only two that I have). Other than that their calcium and others seem to be hit or miss. I've done some homework.

Also, the alk checker gives its readings in ppm, and the conversion is to multiply it by 0.056 = dKH. So, 152ppm x 0.056 = 8.512 dKH. I don't know if the thousands place is necessary but I record it like that anyways.

I tend to test randomly, sometimes before a WC, sometimes after. On average I test alk once a week (maybe more) though I think is a good idea to do a test right before and right after the WC.. I will pickup a salifert testkit here soon and see what it tells me. I think it's also fair to say that there's only ~10 frags in the tank (largest frag is a 3" spongodes), if I saw healthy growth I would expect bigger alk swings (and could then dial in the calcium reactor), as it seems now there isn't any growth and alk seems pretty consistent.

Here is my log dating back about 3 weeks: I do weekly (sometimes 8-9 days instead of every 7) waterchanges but as you can see 10/23 and 11/10 were WC days, WC's performed in the morning, tested later that afternoon.

I'm sorry if you posted this already, but what does your bioload look like?

My bioload is pretty low, only 7 fish right now. I'm planning on putting some more in but not for a little while. I have started to feed corals more often, about every other day. Coral frenzy, oyster feast, KZ coral vit. I feed fish 2-3 times a day with what they can eat within 1-2 minutes. I'm skimming less wet since I've seen this coral problem.

 

[Roy Arena]

Salinity is what?

 

[EvMiBo]

As of this afternoon 52.8 mS / 34.804 ppt.

 

[EvMiBo]

Alright,

So I just received two new Alk Hanna reagents yesterday. I bought a two pack. I also have a salifert kit on its way, it looks like it'll arrive on Wednesday, maybe Thursday.

SO... BIG NEWS:

The first new reagent gave me 6.776 dkH (121 ppm), I tested again and it gave me 6.496 dKH (116 ppm). This has to be my problem (low Alk), right (assuming these new reagents are correct)? I then tried the other new reagent, which gave me 6.776 dKH (121 ppm). I'm thinking that it's low alk... I will compare further once the salifert kit arrives.

I turned on my calcium reactor last night at a pretty low setting to raise it as slowly as possible. Will keep this thread updated as I hopefully figure this out...

 

[swk]

I'm no expert, but I haven't heard of low alk burning tips

 

[EvMiBo]

It hasn't been the same for every coral. Some have burnt tips, and some have STN from the base. Nearly all of them seem to be losing tissue density, or losing zooxanthellae, slowly fading (bleaching?) to white.

 

[markalot]

It's the main reason I don't like the Hanna meters. Great idea but the reagents can't be trusted.

6.7 is not too low, still NSW levels I think. You might have been missing Alk swings though.

I'm having a similar issue but browning, not bleaching, so I'm some help here.

 

[EvMiBo]

The Ca reactor should eliminate any swings. Maybe I should have had it going from the beginning.

 

[EvMiBo]

Salifert Alk test kit was delivered today.

Results:
Salifert = 8.9 dKH
Hanna #1 Reagent = 8.960 dKH
Hanna #2 Reagent = 8.904 dKH

Definitely precise between the three, most likely somewhat accurate.

So, in about 72 hours my alk has risen about 2.1-2.2 dKH (borderline too fast?). I'll keep an eye on it to see if it levels out or what. If needed I'll adjust the Ca reactor. Corals are continuing to decline little by little. This thread has me wondering if my marine pure block could be causing some issues... It's not much more than speculation at this point though..

EDIT: sorry but I forgot to test alk before and after the waterchange yesterday. Nonetheless, I'll probably be updating this with alk readings, etc to see if someone can chime in to help. I'm so tired of not being able to have healthy sps...

 

[EvMiBo]

Fwiw, I ended up sending off a sample to Triton 5-6 weeks ago. Once I received the results, I discovered that my Na levels were unusually high. After some discussion with Randy in a different thread he said based on those levels of Na from the triton test that my salinity was probably around 38ppt.

I tested with 3 different refractometer fluids after that, and 1 different refractometer, all of which gave me 37-38ppt salinity. Since then I've lowered the salinity (according to the new refractometer calibration fluid) to about 34ppt. What's left of a couple corals are the healthiest I've seen them.

I also discovered monti nudis on one of the monti's which might explain their decline as well...

Hopefully this is the end of this ordeal - I'm looking forward to growing corals once again.

 

[cthedaytrader]

Discovering the problems is more than half the battle, and at least you can address them now. Not knowing what is wrong is far worse and more frustrating.

Good luck, and lets see some happy corals now!

 

[EvMiBo]

Yup, strange how a faulty $7 bottle of calibration fluid can send a system so far into oblivion.

Forgive me, but I literally have two small pieces of monti's left from an inital ~15 frags. You aren't missing much!