SPS irritated when I try to raise alk above 6.5 dkh????

[jlinzmaier]

I've been battling this silly problem for about two years now. If/when I try to raise my alk past 6.5 dkh I seem to seriously irritate my SPS. I get a definitive lack of polyp extension followed by STN throughout areas of the entire corals tissue (not just the base or the tips - tissue begins to recess at all areas of the corals skeleton). My tanks chemistry is very stable except for when I try to adjust alk up or down.

It just makes absolutely no sense to me. I can change absolutely nothing for weeks and things will be fine (with the exception of what I think is relatively slow SPS growth and all but a complete lack of corraline algae growth). As soon as I try increasing the alk level I get complete lack of polyp ext (day and night) and many sps (monti's, acro's, and stylo's) start to develop STN at various areas (base, tips, and throughout the body of the coral). The more I raise the alk the more tissue loss develops and the faster it occurs.

I always make any adjustments very slowly (never more than 0.5 dkh spaced over a 24 hr period and never more than a 1dkh shift in a week. I've tried raising alk by dosing a bit more kalk over several weeks time and still had trouble. I thought maybe the increase in pH was irritating the corals. I then backed it down let the tank recover for about 2 months then I tried raising alk by increasing my ca reactor effluent rate. Once I hit 7 or higher it all goes downhill. I also tried raising alk with soda ash from BRS and got the same effect.

I don't do any carbon source dosing. My ca is stable at 400 and I realize that dosing more kalk or increasing the ca reactor effluent rate will increase ca but not enough to make a detrimental impact of any sort. My mag is always stable at 1300.

I just don't get it. I can tell if my alk is drifting above 6.5dkh because the lack of polyp ext in my monti verrucosa is the first noticed.

Any thoughts on why this would happen?? I have really slow growth in my SPS and many corals haven't grown more than a cm or two over the past 2 years. I also have little to no corraline algae growth and I'm sure they are both related to low alk levels.

I have tested my ELOS kits against two different control solutions from different manufacturers and the kit always read the solution as it's labeled. I've tested with Salifert and get a reading about 1-1.5 dkh higher.

I do notice I seem to get a fair amount of sand clumping in the areas of highest flow. I'm assuming that would be caco3 precipitation because some of the chunks turn completely rock hard. I even had some caco3 precipitation onto my chaeto a few weeks ago????? This seems odd to me that it would occur at alk levels of 6.5-7 dkh. I've never gotten the alk past 7.5 dkh because the corals begin to look so stressed I'm afraid I might kill them if I continue on.

I dose the ca reactor effluent and kalk into my sump (at opposite ends) and it is always mixed into the water nicely before it returns to the display. I dose kalk constantly throughout the day as well as using my ca reactor to keep up with what my kalk can't (don't have a lot of evaporation).

What's completely baffling and very frustrating is that many friends have gotten frags from me and they maintain their alk levels at 9 or 10 dkh and the corals they get from me thrive. In their tanks the corals grow at what I would consider normal or fast and they have spectacular polyp extension.

I can even see coral irritation and lack of polyp extension when I do a small water change with a salt mix like IO or RC which has a high alk level.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!!

Does anyone else have trouble like this??

I'm almost to the point of having my water sent off to ENC labs to have a full analysis to see if some heavy metals are out of wack and precipitating out onto the corals surface when alk levels rise. That's the only "shot in the dark" guess that I can come up with at this point.

Jeremy

 

[toothman]

I took my co2 reactor out 2 years ago and went to 2 part dosing for my 600 gallon system and have no regrets. I have less algae and better polyp extension. I actually dose 4 parts, sodium bicarb, cacl, mgcl and kalk with innovative aquatics medical dosing pumps. I also had a similar problem with reactor with rtn.

 

[Jabrams]

Do you dose mag?

I would also switch to 2 part, ca reactor and kalk reactors are not as good.
I use ESV B-ionic

Mag could help you raise the alk, there is an article out there regarding the relationship between mag, ca, alk.

Joe

 

[sowellj]

I can relate to some degree at least on the slow growth part. I run a zeo system though which explains why my alk needs to stay low. I'll throw my opinion in on the alk issue ... I don't think the value is exceptionally important, but stability is. There was a tank of the month a while back that ran at 5.5. Others are successful running at 11. That is a huge range and begs the question of their being a 'magic' value. Having said that I think individual tanks have a 'sweet spot' so to speak.

That doesn't really help your current situation, though. Are all SPS affected ... i.e., is it an isolated or global problem? How is your RO/DI? New filters/resin installed? TDS readings? What happens when you do massive water changes ... 50-100% tank volume?

This would be a pain ... but if you can isolate the problem to only happening when you attempt to bump up the alk, what about taking the ca reactor off line for a bit and using two part. Maybe there is something in your media that the corals don't like? Its a shot in the dark.

 

[jlinzmaier]

Thanks for all the input everyone!!

In regards to two part, I did dose two part exclusively for about 6 months and the problem still persisted when I tried to raise alk. I tried both sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate thinking that the pH may be the key but both alk supplements of the two part irritated the corals just the same when I tried to raise alk. I've tried every combination of ca/alk supplementation as well as each one individually and always the same response.

Stabiliy. Definately the key factor in SPS general health, growth, and nice polyp ext. I go great lengths to maintain stability. Unless I'm intentionally trying to raise alk (or backing it down after the corals get irritated from the increase) my water params are rock solid. I keep my alk at 6.5 dkh and for the last year I've tested almost daily. I'm able to keep it from shifting at all unless I intenionally experiment with yet another attempt at raising it. I don't try to raise alk levels often but once every couple months I give it a shot with a different method hoping to find the key to letting me maintain my alk level a little higher without stressing the SPS.

My ca is always solid at 400 and mag at 1300. I don't think they've shifted at all in the last year. I don't dose anything to keep mag where it's at, I simply rely on water changes and that has kept it stable.

I had my system set up to do 10 gallon water changes automatically every day but I had a pump go out and for the last month I've been doing about 25 gallons two times a week. I currently use a combination of 50% tropic marin pro reef and 50% instant ocean. I have a system which has a total volume of about 600-700 gallons so a 50% or 100% water change is pretty much out of the question. I have the ability to do a 100 gallon water change at one time and I've done that a few times. A couple times with just tropic marin pro reef, once with instant ocean, and once with a 50% mix of each. The SPS seemed slightly stressed with the water changes using tropic marin. The SPS were very stressed with the 100 gallon change using IO - very likely due to the high alk value of IO salt mix. The 50/50 (tropic marin/IO) water change showed more irritation than the plain tropic marin water change but less than the IO water change (correlating irritation directly to alk values of the salt mixes).

I do have a very low nutrient system. I have little to no nuisance algea growth other than a little derbesia that none of my animals will eat. I run an algea turf scrubber and grow chaeto. I get very little growth on the algea turf scrubber and the chaeto grows at a snails pace. For a while the chaeto was actually dying off. My nitrate was always undetectable and po4 (per hanna photometer) was consistently reading 0.02 or less. With the chaeto dying off I started feeding my fish lots of food trying to get more nutrients into the system. The fish get fed a huge amount now every day and I finally have nitrate detectable at approx 2 and po4 last read at 0.03. The chaeto has stopped dying and is now growing but very slow (still only a slight amount of slime algae on the glass that the builds up so slow I only need to clean the glass every 2 weeks (not because I'm lazy, just because it takes 2 weeks to get enough built up on the glass so I can notice it). I've recently started dosing the ELOS amino acid supplement and their product called pro skimmer which I believe is a DOC/carbohydrate concoction for corals. I thought for a while that my system may be reacting like some do when people are using bacterial proliferation. In those cases (although unclear etiology) the systems must have alk maintained at levels below 8dkh to prevent burnt tips on SPS. Well, I can't even hit 7 without serious irritation! I'm not dosing any carbon sources and the coral tissue loss is at more than just the tips. It was just a thought since my nutrient levels are quite low.

I have a 4 stage RO/DI unit and TDS is always 0 with my inline meters. I have a comTDS-100 which I routinely check my water with (in addition to the inline monitors that I check every time I turn on the RO/DI unit). Once the inline monitors read anything but 0 or my com TDS reads anything greater than 0.7 I change the DI resin and evaluate if the sediment or carbon blocks need to be changed. I take good care of my RO/DI unit.

Saying this is a pain is a huge understatement!! I'm a pretty knowledgeable reefer with many years experience. If I hadn't gone though every last idea I can think of I wouldn't be bothering you guys trying to figure this out.

Truly appreciate the ideas!!

Jeremy

 

[ostrow]

Wow, Jeremy, I have no insights. You seem to have covered everything.

I know a couple of dedicated hobbyists who have never been able to keep SPS alive and their husbandry is spot-on, as seems yours.

Not that I have any ideas, but can you say something about your water source? Are you on well water? Lake? Have you ever seen a detailed analysis of the source water? One should be available either from your municipality or the county. I found this but they should have a more detailed report you can see:

http://vil.edgar.wi.us/ccr.htm

It may be worth a shot. I'm not at all clear why a change in alkalinity would affect things like you report but it may offer a key to the oddball lack of growth.

You might also consider posting in the reef chemistry forum, as this has to be a chemical problem of some sort. At least, that's what I read from this.

Good luck!

 

[jlinzmaier]

Thanks ostrow.

I really have tried to cover everything here. I am on well water with a water softener before the RO/DI unit. TDS prior to going into the RO unit is around 125.

I think I'll check with the guys on the reef chemistry forum and if they don't have any good ideas I may fork over some $$ to ENC labs and have a complete water analysis of all trace element levels. Maybe some trace element is out of wack causing problems.

Thanks everyone!!

Jeremy

 

[ostrow]

TDS isn't everything.

The lead content in the water analysis is high. There may be other trace elements. I'd start with the full report that is only summarized in the link. Why pay the lab when your taxes have already paid for analysis that is at least as comprehensive.

You could get that and then post it to the chemistry forum and see what Randy and others have to say.

 

[pencil3]

After reading your first post I was going to ask if you were using tropic marin pro reef salt, but you ended up answering that one. I had a similar issue when using tropic marin pro reef salt recently (I've been using it for years). I slowly switched over to using IO (auto water changes at 2.5 gallons per day) and the issue has resolved itself. You might want to try dropping the 50% TMPR salt and just use 100% IO and see if it clears up for you too.

 

[deeznutz1]

Poor fellow, I feel your pain. How much Alk are you dosing in a tank that size?

From my understanding, you shouldn't use softwater into you R.O. For what reasons, I have no idea. I thought softwater would be benificial, but I was told not to.

Maybe this is your problem? Who knows?

I wouldn't worry about getting your Alk higher. 6.5 is perfectly acceptable. If you're getting poor growth and PE, I doubt it's your Alk.

What is your lighting and flow? Too low of nutrients might cause you're slow growth.

Hope I could help. Very strange problem though.

-dan

 

[jlinzmaier]

Wow everyone!! Thank you all for the in depth thoughts and concern. I really appreciate that!!

TDS isn't everything.

The lead content in the water analysis is high. There may be other trace elements. I'd start with the full report that is only summarized in the link. Why pay the lab when your taxes have already paid for analysis that is at least as comprehensive.

You could get that and then post it to the chemistry forum and see what Randy and others have to say.

Ostrow. Great idea. I will do just that. I really appreciate you putting the work in to get a link to water in my area. I'll get the full detailed analysis of my tap water and post that for the chemistry guru's. The lab analysisi that I was thinking of would be of my tank water. That is very expensive though and I'd like to rule out all other possiblities first. Thank you very much!

After reading your first post I was going to ask if you were using tropic marin pro reef salt, but you ended up answering that one. I had a similar issue when using tropic marin pro reef salt recently (I've been using it for years). I slowly switched over to using IO (auto water changes at 2.5 gallons per day) and the issue has resolved itself. You might want to try dropping the 50% TMPR salt and just use 100% IO and see if it clears up for you too.

I actually did try just IO salt mix for two months and during that time I didn't try to raise alk levels. I did notice that with each water change, even the small daily 10 gallon water change, the corals seemed irritated and would retract polyps for several hours. The reaction seemed very similar to how they acted when I would try to raise alk so I didn't even bother trying to raise alk while using the IO. It would sure be nice if I could just use IO since it would be so much cheaper. Thank you for the thought!!

Poor fellow, I feel your pain. How much Alk are you dosing in a tank that size?

From my understanding, you shouldn't use softwater into you R.O. For what reasons, I have no idea. I thought softwater would be benificial, but I was told not to.

Maybe this is your problem? Who knows?

I wouldn't worry about getting your Alk higher. 6.5 is perfectly acceptable. If you're getting poor growth and PE, I doubt it's your Alk.

What is your lighting and flow? Too low of nutrients might cause you're slow growth.

Hope I could help. Very strange problem though.

-dan

Strange problem - yes. Frustrating - absolutely X 10 !!!!

To maintain my alk at 6.5 I dose about 4 gallons per day of fully saturated kalk. My calcium reactor runs at a very slow rate to just pick up what the kalk can't maintain. It's about a drop a second from the effluent line. It's not a lot of ca/alk supplementation but for a 400 gallon tank I don't have it stocked very well and there is virtually no corraline growth. Not to mention there isn't much SPS growth to take up much alk. Wish I had the opposite problem. LOL!! I've got lot's of ways to supplement ca and alk but the tank just doesn't want it.

I think I heard that you're not supposed to run an RO/DI unit after the softener due to the sodium in the water which can be hard on the membrane (I believe that's the concern). I never thought much about it since the TDS is so low to begin with I wasn't worried about overworking my ro unit. Good thought though. I'll pose that question to the chemistry guys.

Lighting is good but not supreme. I have three 400 watt halides on a track going back and forth about 12 inches. It's pretty darn good coverage but I'm going to invest in some LED's and get more fixtures over the tank so I don't have to run a track. Recent PAR readings were approx 350 2-3 inches below the surface (directly under a light), roughly 200 mid tank and about 90-110 on the bottom center with the PAR dropping to about 70's at the far corners.

Flow is probably better than most tanks. I have three hammerhead gold pumps (5,600 gph) on closed loops going through OM 4-ways. I also have a hammerhead gold on the return from the sump in the basement which is valved down a bit so probably 2,000-2,500 gph when you take into account about 15 ft of head pressure. I also plan to add some koralias on a wavemaker for even more random flow. Recently I tried one for a while and noticed my acans puffed up a bit more and seemed happier. With the 3 closed loops and return pump I have about 44X turnover of the display.

I agree with low nutrients causing slow growth. The first 4-5 years of having a reef tank I battled nuisance algea and excess nutrients due to lack of knowledge on proper filtration methods. For the next 18 months I then ran the zeo system and learned what a tank can look like when nutrients are stripped to low (one extreme to the other - LOL!!). Due to the cost and some concerns I had with the zeo process I decided to drop the use of zeo products and used vodka dosing. After some trouble with various bacterial proliferation methods (mainly stripping nutrients to fast and too low) I decided to use conventional methods of filtration and simply monitor the nutrient input into the tank a bit closer. About a year ago I set up this 420 gallon display and have never had trouble with excess nutrients. Since I set this tank up I've had limited nuisance algea growth and limited macro growth (If I don't feed massive amounts of food my macros begin to die). I attribute that to good flow, good skimmer, and having a relatively low fish bioload since this tank has been set up.

With that in mind I had seriously considered that the growth issues with stony corals was related to nutrients being too low. For the last 6 months I've seriously increased the amount of fish in my tank as well as feeding massive amounts of food every day. I have an auto feeder which feeds about 1/2 tsp of food (mixed pellet, flake, cylopeeze, and mixed zooplankton) with each feeding. That feeding is delivered slowly over an hours time 4 times a day. In addition I feed a 2inX2in chunk of rods food (herbivore blend) once daily. With the rods food I also throw in a couple cubes of mysis or brine shrimp. I also feed about a shot glass full of live blackworms every day. The blackworms feeding is usually split up among feeding the fish and target feeding the LPS when the lights go out. I also feed a full sheet of nori every day or every other day. I also feed about 10 algea wafers so my snails and hermits don't starve from the lack of algea growth. 3-4 times a week I feed a 1/4tsp of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs when the lights go out. I've recently started dosing various types of phyto and I use about 3X the recommended dosage. I don't know anyone that feeds that much and has as little nuisance algea growth as I do. My fish are extremely fat and there are no signs of excess nutrients whatsoever. I'm afraid to feed any more because I'm feeding such a large amount already. Even with all that feeding the highest I can get my NO3 to is 2 and po4 up to 0.03???????

A quick thought on the low nutrients. Here's my build thread. This post shows the internal plumbing for the closed loops and how I covered all the PVC with dried rock rubble. I used GE silicone #1 which has been decided as safe by nearly all who have used it for reefs. I used a lot of silicone to glue all that rock to the PVC - roughly 20 tubes. The curing agent in the silicone is acetic acid (vinegar). The silicone was definately all dried before I put water in the tank but I wonder if there is some acetic acid leaching from the silicone and inducing bacterial proliferation as the acetic acid is acting as a carbon source. I would think that since the tank has been running for a full year now that anything that would leach from the silicone would be done, but I guess I can't say that for sure. Just a potential thought on why I have such low nutrients.

Jeremy

 

[Ostentum]

What is your ph at. It doesnt really make sense that your dkh is at 6.5, cal at 400 and mag at 1300 especially if you are seeing precipitation.

 

[jlinzmaier]

What is your ph at. It doesnt really make sense that your dkh is at 6.5, cal at 400 and mag at 1300 especially if you are seeing precipitation.

pH runs 7.9-8.1

I only see significant precipitation when I try raising alk to 7.0 or above. I should clarify that I don't see water column precipitation but only increased precipitation in the areas that the ca rx effluent and kalk gets dosed (which happens to be at opposite ends of my 6 foot sump).

Jeremy

 

[DeathWish302]

Have you switched your test kits to see if different test kits (or fresher) result in the same chemistry readings? Maybe not the key, but test kits degrade with time...

One thing I noticed.... You say you do not raise dKh more than 0.5units/per day and 1.0unit/week.
IME, that is still too quick of an adjustment. I know I have had problems and some of my more respected buddies in the hobby have had this problem. One LFS I know in CA had a client in the SF area burn and RTN almost every coral he had by performing a 1 wk jump by 1.0units.

The best advice I can give is if you are dosing manually, try a dosing pump to raise the dKh again. You can use anything you like, but for the money and reliability a Kangaroo 'feeding pump' off ebay can't be beat for reliability for the price. I'm running three pumps right now dosing 2-Part and kalk(to control pH at night). When I test and see dKh is off from 9.0, I adjust the dilution of my 2-Part going into the NaHCO3 reservoir. This change results in a subtle shift and the results of this change to dilution usually is not understood for at least 1 month. Yes, I said 1 month.

By extending the time the shift occurs, I have seen much greater success with chemistry stability. I also have completely ceased doing big WCs' and only perform 1% daily changes now. Just some more food for thought, as these types of anomolies in our hobby can be frustrating. I feel your pain, as I have not been able to keep a Garf Bonsai looking good for more than a month EVER! Give that frag to a buddy and in a couple weeks it has intense purple again.... Don't give up. There is a solution to your problem but you just have to be patient with the answer. Also, if you do change your routine only change one thing at a time so you can note what resulted in that change.

There is my $0.02 of ramblings for today.

 

[jlinzmaier]

Have you switched your test kits to see if different test kits (or fresher) result in the same chemistry readings? Maybe not the key, but test kits degrade with time... I use ELOS test kits. I've checked them against two control solutions from different manufacturers as well as checking a nearly used up kit and a brand new kit. All checked out right on.

One thing I noticed.... You say you do not raise dKh more than 0.5units/per day and 1.0unit/week.
IME, that is still too quick of an adjustment. I know I have had problems and some of my more respected buddies in the hobby have had this problem. One LFS I know in CA had a client in the SF area burn and RTN almost every coral he had by performing a 1 wk jump by 1.0units. Stability is extremely important but I thought my shifts were quite slow. If I make any more changes I'll make sure I extend the changes over a far longer time period and see if that makes a difference.

The best advice I can give is if you are dosing manually, try a dosing pump to raise the dKh again. You can use anything you like, but for the money and reliability a Kangaroo 'feeding pump' off ebay can't be beat for reliability for the price. I'm running three pumps right now dosing 2-Part and kalk(to control pH at night). When I test and see dKh is off from 9.0, I adjust the dilution of my 2-Part going into the NaHCO3 reservoir. This change results in a subtle shift and the results of this change to dilution usually is not understood for at least 1 month. Yes, I said 1 month. All my dosing is extremely carefully controlled. Nothing is manually dosed. My kalk is dosed with a peristaltic doser controlled by an AC3. The only other supplement I use is from my ca reactor which is extremely controlled and precise. When I make any adjustments I simply increase the ca reactor effluent or slightly increase the kalk dosing rate. Nothing drastic.

By extending the time the shift occurs, I have seen much greater success with chemistry stability. I also have completely ceased doing big WCs' and only perform 1% daily changes now. Just some more food for thought, as these types of anomolies in our hobby can be frustrating. I feel your pain, as I have not been able to keep a Garf Bonsai looking good for more than a month EVER! Give that frag to a buddy and in a couple weeks it has intense purple again.... Don't give up. There is a solution to your problem but you just have to be patient with the answer. Also, if you do change your routine only change one thing at a time so you can note what resulted in that change.

There is my $0.02 of ramblings for today.

Thank you for the thoughts. Very much appreciate your input. See the responses above in red.

Jeremy

 

[Dog boy Dave]

The alk in my systems moves in 1.0 increments all the time. That much swing in a day doesnt bother healthy corals in the least. Changing the alk by that much in a week shouldnt bother a healthy coral or a healthy system. Also my corals thrive on Instant Ocean (IO) as well. IO works well at 100 percent in many systems I know. Some of the advice you have here sounds pretty good. Drop the pretreatment softener and look for a contaminant in your water. Change one thing at a time. Dont chase the ghosts. Large water changes with aged fresh mixed water should not bother your corals. If it does it isnt because of the water change its because there is something in your water that bothers them. Alk changes from 1 unit a week shouldnt bother corals. If it seemed to its because something else stressed or caused the problem. Not the Alk swing. It sounds like you are on the right track looking at your water at the source.
You havent included pictures but do the corals look skinny and does the skin look "tight" with very sharp edges on the coralites? I once had a water sourse issue, very long term that was causing problems. The growth of the corals was affected as i described above. Turned out it was a sourse issue. Was never able to ID the contaminate but after replumbing my water system and removing a section of line made out of a "suspect" material the corals began to thrive again.

 

[overklok]

Let your water get dirty, low nutrient systems leave no flexibility for alkalinity swings or alkalinity above NSW. Once I ditched carbon dosing, the corals slowly started coming back. A good indicator are soft corals, if they look bleached, your nutrients are too low.

 

[KrazyOnetime]

Hey don't feel bad i'm having word for word the exact same problem you are except I am running O3. Please PM me if you have found a cure for this problem.

 

[jlinzmaier]

The alk in my systems moves in 1.0 increments all the time. That much swing in a day doesnt bother healthy corals in the least. Changing the alk by that much in a week shouldnt bother a healthy coral or a healthy system. Also my corals thrive on Instant Ocean (IO) as well. IO works well at 100 percent in many systems I know. Some of the advice you have here sounds pretty good. Drop the pretreatment softener and look for a contaminant in your water. Change one thing at a time. Dont chase the ghosts. Large water changes with aged fresh mixed water should not bother your corals. If it does it isnt because of the water change its because there is something in your water that bothers them. Alk changes from 1 unit a week shouldnt bother corals. If it seemed to its because something else stressed or caused the problem. Not the Alk swing. It sounds like you are on the right track looking at your water at the source.
You havent included pictures but do the corals look skinny and does the skin look "tight" with very sharp edges on the coralites? I once had a water sourse issue, very long term that was causing problems. The growth of the corals was affected as i described above. Turned out it was a sourse issue. Was never able to ID the contaminate but after replumbing my water system and removing a section of line made out of a "suspect" material the corals began to thrive again.

Bertoni indicated the water softener before the RO/DI unit was better as the sodium is easier on the membrane than the calcium and magnesium that the softener removes. Do you have a different idea on why the softener before the RO/DI would be bad??

Corals don't look shiny. SPS just have no polyp extension (day or night) and begin to lose tissue with the slightest alk change. Unfortunately I have nothing in my tank plumbing that would rise any attention. My tank was plumbed using all PVC and nothing was done that hasn't been done by thousands of successful reefers. The only water contaminant could be from my RO/DI in which some trace heavy metal is coming in in amounts that are high enough to cause problems but not high enough to register more than 0.75 TDS per my com-100. Very strange but the few hundered bucks for my tanks water analysis may be the key. The well water report will help but that won't tell me if that element is remaining in the water past the RO/DI filter.

Let your water get dirty, low nutrient systems leave no flexibility for alkalinity swings or alkalinity above NSW. Once I ditched carbon dosing, the corals slowly started coming back. A good indicator are soft corals, if they look bleached, your nutrients are too low.

I've been feeding massive amounts now for 6 months. I'm now getting some diatom growth and some cyano growth. The softies and other high nutrient corals never bleached so my tank isn't following the typical ULNS findings. Very frustrating.

Thanks everyone!! As soon as I can get the $$ together to send my water off for testing I'll let you know.

Jeremy

 

[jlinzmaier]

I'm going to try to simplify things here so I can make one change at a time to see the result.

It sounds like there are two logical theories thus far.

1) I have an ULNS which is causing a complication when I alter alk levels (primarily increase). This phenomenon is well known but not well understood. It often occurrs with carbon dosing however I haven't dosed a carbon source to this tank since it's been set up. My tank did for several months exhibit signs similar to an ULNS - little to know algae growth, dying macroalgae, little to no presence of NO3 or PO4. My corals are also very slow to grow potentially limited by the lack of organics to produce soft tissue.

2) I have an odd trace element that (depending on what it is) can be causing all kinds of chemistry complications. Attempting to change my alk level may be nothing more than an extra bit of stress which makes my corals react negatively giving the false indication that the alk change is the problem when in reality it's just the straw breaking the camels back.

I didn't realize ENC labs was so expensive to have a full water analysis. After looking at the pricing of ENC testing I'm going to try a few interventions before I go that route.

Since I'm now seeing some algea growth (macroalgea and nuisance algae) I'm going to lean towards assuming the problem is related to theory #2 (to start with) and try to work through that problem. Maybe the problem is really #1 and after 6 months of overfeeding and almost blatently polluting my tank with the amount of food I feed my fish, I've overcome that ULNS and the problem will resolve on it's own no matter what intervention I take from here. Maybe. I've had 4 weeks of steady macroalgea growth and two weeks of nuisance algea growth so I feel inclined to do something instead of waiting even longer and watching my corals parish when there is a slight shift in alk. Even though it's not detectable with my test kit, if my kalk water reservoir runs dry for a few hours or I do even a small water change (more than 15 gallons in a 600 gallon system) my corals react negatively from the slight change in chemistry. For that reason I'm inclined to not just wait it out and see what happens. This has already been going on for about 8 months.

Taking on problem#2 is a huge challenge due to the complexity of molecular reactions, understanding how heavy metals affect corals, and that all goes without knowing if there really is an elevated trace element/heavy metal. Since I can't afford the testing right now I'm going to proceed carefully and perform interventions that I'm relatively certain won't have negative consequence.

The water analysis of my well water showed elevated levels of lead. Is lead getting through my RO/DI (TDS reading of 0.75 or less with com-100)?? Is there more than one heavy metal getting through causing problems?? Did something fall into my sump or refugium (nail, tack, etc...).

To start with I'm going to try using a heavy metal detoxifier on my RO water to try to neutralize anything that might get through my RO/DI. I have some instant ocean water conditioner which states is neutralizes toxic heavy metals. I figure this is a safe gamble and can't hurt anything. I don't know if it has any affect on lead or just exactly what heavy metals it affects but I'm going to contact IO to see if they can tell me. In the mean time I'll use it on the RO water as well as adding a dose to my freshly mixed saltwater before I do a water change. I'm also going to completely empty my sump and any nearby tanks that could have had something fall in them. I'll check everything over and use the water conditioner for a month and see what happens. If I get no results I'll try moving onto something else.

Any other suggestions??

Jeremy