Starphire Glass Front - Tempered or Non-Tempered?

[Crazylikeafox]

I would like to know if anyone feels very strongly about having the Starphire front of my aquarium Tempered or Non-Tempered.

I wanted Non-Tempered, but my local distributor in Atlanta (only one I could find in Georgia) gave me a big hassle when I said I wanted my Starphire glass Non-Tempered.

"If its going in an aquarium it has to be tempered in case it breaks... the pressure could force large pieces of glass outward and really hurt someone." I resisted telling the lady that if someone breaks my aquarium I would like to see the glass take off an arm and a leg :lol: ...

The aquarium volume will be around 600g and the glass dimension will be around 96"x32," with a thickness of 3/4," so their will be some significant pressure involved.

I do not want to present a bias in my question so please let me know what you think.

-Charles

 

[8BALL_99]

Its up to you.. Tempered glass is stronger about 5x if I remember right. It will shatter in to small peices if it breaks compared to non tempered that will brake into very large sharp pieces. So both of those are right. The biggest drawback to it is the edges are very fragile. So even though the panel can handle more stress or even more of a impact on the front. It takes almost nothing on the edge of the panel to break the entire thing. Bottoms of tanks are almost always tempered but they also tend to have trim around them to protected the edges. Its really up to you. Tempered panel probably would be safer if it did break But just it being tempered could increase the chances of it getting broke.. The back and bottom of my custom tank is tempered but not he front or sides.

 

[Crazylikeafox]

Thanks 8Ball, but keep your avatar away from my aquarium :lol: .

I had mantis on my stocking list among many loving fish last year and got a laugh from my lfs.

-Charles

 

[kcress]

I would definitely go tempered in your case.

I am in the same boat: 72"x36". Tempering adds about $125 to a big piece of glass. But I'm able to drop down to 1/2" saving about $350 over 3/4" by going to tempered and paying the tempering fee. While the edge issue is good to keep in mind, once installed there should be no issues with edge damage.

Your piece of glass will also have s significant dollar amount involved!! Wow, that sounds expensive. Mine was quoted at 3/4" Starfire = $1,000. I'm still contemplating using 1" acrylic instead as it was about half that price.

 

[Crazylikeafox]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13778181#post13778181 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcress
Your piece of glass will also have s significant dollar amount involved!! Wow, that sounds expensive. Mine was quoted at 3/4" Starfire = $1,000. I'm still contemplating using 1" acrylic instead as it was about half that price.

Some people dislike an open discussion of money and if this is generally avoided I apologize, but I am an accountant so I talk frankly about money.

http://www.glasscages.com/ was the web address I found which quoted prices online. Check their commercial aquariums and cut piece section. It is located in TN and I have not checked shipping costs yet, but this should show you the competitive ballpark.

I have found a distributor in Atlanta by the name of Echols Glass but I have not received my quote back from them yet, just submitted it today (thus the post on tempered vs not).

Quick math on your piece from http://www.glasscages.com:
6 feet * 3 feet = 18sq/ft *$15 per sq/ft = $270
Its not listed if this is tempered or not, so I would assume not. But we seem to have mixed opinions on that atm which makes me believe its preference.

-Charles

 

[amehel0]

tempered cant bow so it its like acyrlic as in stronger to take a hit but will crap itself in a big aquarium.

 

[tgreene]

Glass Cages does not do anything with tempered glass, so if that's what you're hungry for, you'll have to find it elsewhere.

Personally, I hate tempered glass for a number of reasons, so I order large custom built tanks from Glass Cages, to build them out for my clients. Lately, I've been ordering Starphire.

In regards to the bottom of the tank, that's an area that many of us like to drill, so that's another consideration... Can't ever drill tempered!

-Tim

 

[kcress]

Wow $270. Is much better than I'm seeing. I got three quotes one was $960 and all the others were spread up to $1,250. (All untempered 3/4")

Shipping is, BTW, a real problem with GCages. A big problem. I would expect several hundred dollars(~$500) in shipping.

I asked CG for a shipping quote on this tank and it was about $1,500.

 

[kcress]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13778673#post13778673 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by amehel0
tempered cant bow so it its like acyrlic

Not my understanding... Acrylic being flexible and bowing is a big part of its toughness. Being able to flex and hence distributing a blow. Tempered glass won't bow much. It does it with tensile strength.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13779518#post13779518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcress
Not my understanding... Acrylic being flexible and bowing is a big part of its toughness. Being able to flex and hence distributing a blow. Tempered glass won't bow much. It does it with tensile strength.

Tempered glass does bow quite a bit when compared to non tempered glass.

We were asked to cut a piece that was destined for a table top a few weeks ago. The guys was not certain if it was tempered/untemp and told us if it breaks, oh well...not big loss.

We scored it, and applied some pressure with a breaking vice. After about 4 full rotations on the handle, nothing had happened. We took a step back and thats when we saw it...the whole thing was bending! You could have dropped some water on it and it would have all collected in a small puddle near the middle it was bent that much. You could easily see it in refracting light...

Just something to tuck away in your useless knowledge area.

 

[kcress]

So it was tempered? How did it take the scratch? Indeed interesting.

 

[8BALL_99]

IMO the bottom should be tempered. Sure you can't drill it later but it makes the bottom much stronger and reduces the chance of a rock slide or even just the pressure caused in small points from the rocks from breaking the tank.

With tempered glass the unprotected edge of the front panel is a little bit of a concern. I wouldn't be to worried about it BUT I mean a 2 year old with a toy car could shatter the entire front panel pretty easy lol I've busted up glass windows before and I was VERY surprised how little of a impact it took on the edge to break the glass. At the same time though a hammer will bounce off the glass if you hit away from the edge. Scratch it with a spark plug and it will shatter also. It really is a hard choice. Either way you have risks. If you can go with thinner glass though by using tempered then I'd probably go that route. Thicker the glass the more it effects viewing.. Even with starphire glass.

 

[kcress]

As a kid I took a bat to an old TV laying in a field. A buddy and I tried to break the glass with the bat, with cinder blocks, with rocks, and a tire iron. It beat the tar out of us! We were unable to ever break it. Later I saw a TV tube implode and thought back how grateful I was that that tempered glass held up!!

 

[hahnmeister]

DO NOT GET IT TEMPERED. Viewing panels should not be tempered, starphire or not. The tempering process often causes small uneven parts to develop across the surface of the glass, sometimes even 'pits'. These will be problems when it comes to scraping algae down the line.

Besides, tempering starphire is sort of a joke... it doesnt temper like regular glass because of the whole 'lacking iron' part.

"Tempered glass does bow quite a bit when compared to non tempered glass."

^^^ tempered glass doesnt 'bend' easier. The truth is many tempered panel tanks (if its not just the bottom) use thinner glass because the glass can endure more before breaking... so they bend more. But if both versions used the same thickness... both would 'deflect' about the same.

 

[Zoos]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13782076#post13782076 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister


^^^ tempered glass doesnt 'bend' easier. The truth is many tempered panel tanks (if its not just the bottom) use thinner glass because the glass can endure more before breaking... so they bend more. But if both versions used the same thickness... both would 'deflect' about the same.

Exactly.


I also wanted to add that I have seen quite a few tanks break, a couple in front of me and I have never seen a tank break how some people would imagine it, where it just blows up and there is glass flying everywhere killing people, the tanks I have seen break have basically just cracked somewhere because of impact or pressure point and that crack will run the length of that panel and water starts to leak. I have seen a 24 gallon nano cube do it and I have seen a 340 gallon in wall do it because a huge rock was dropped on it, the point I'm trying to make is, I am 100% sure that if they had been tempered that panel would have definitely blown out and all the water would have been on the floor in a matter of seconds and we wouldn't have had the chance to drain it ourselves and save the livestock.

Felix.

 

[hahnmeister]

Good point... the only time I 'blew' a tank was when I was putting bulkheads in the back of a 10g and bumped it with my leg after setting it up... the stress cracked out a good chunk of the back wall and water (along with some large shards) went everywhere... but this is the exception to the rule. Luckily this was freshwater testing and still in the basement... so no big deal... lesson learned: dont bump bulkhead on 1/8" thick glass with leg!

I have had other tanks crack and leak... and its always a slow process that usually starts with Anita waking me up with a 'your tank is leaking, there is a trickle in the livingroom and a puddle!!'. Always enough time to remove livestock and water in short time, even with cracks that go from top to bottom... the rest of the tank holds the cracked panels very close together so the crack is hairline and a small trickle is about the most that can happen... sometimes just a drip.

 

[jma1978]

I have a tempered starphire front panel (actually, it's Diamante, but they're the same thing, just different brand names). It's 1/2" thick and 10ft long and I do see small waves in it if I look down the entire length. But the imperfections are not noticable and do not affect scraping algae or anything like that.
Another thing to consider with low iron glass is which side touches the water. If it's not tempered, there is a tinned side and a rolled side (if I remember my terms correctly). One of the sides (I can't remember which) will get small little chips if it's on the water side. A quick call to glass cages should clear it up though, and they should also be able to tell you how to identify which side is which.
I too debated getting my glass tempered, but am glad I did it. I like having the ability to use thinner glass.

 

[hahnmeister]

Just use a short wave UV-C light (like for checking ID's and stamps)... the 'tin side' which glows under UV-C, should face out.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13782076#post13782076 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Besides, tempering starphire is sort of a joke... it doesnt temper like regular glass because of the whole 'lacking iron' part.

Lets not make things up as we go... Low iron glass is tempered all the time. StarFire, UltraWhite and half a dozen other brands are tempered for use in showers, coffee tables, store windows, doors and storm doors, display cases, etc.

Just a few examples of LOW IRON tempered products

http://www.bikudo.com/buy/details/210067/low_iron_tempered_glass_for_solar_panel.html
http://www.guardian.com/en/na/gp_001018.html
http://kingsolar.com/catalog/mfg/aet/g4405.html
http://www.homepower.com/article/?file=HP102_pg92_WTH
http://www.bendheim.com/architectural/lowIron.htm
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11509962/Low_Iron_Tempered_Pattern_Glass_Solar_Glass_.html
http://www.afgglass.com/Category.aspx?id=355
http://www.americanglasstop.com/products/heavy_tops.php

FWIW Hahn, I a close family member runs a high end glass facility. They do high end tempering and etching as well as operate a precision float line. They commonly work with low iron products for high end display devices (touch screens).

 

[swearint]

Here is a brief report on the mechanical properties of tempered glass vs ordinary glass.

http://www.alumaxbath.com/tech/gp.pdf

Corroborates most of what has already been stated. However, it has a slightly higher modulus (E) that indicates that, all else being equal, tempered glass will deflect 10% less than ordinary glass.

Todd