starting a new tank.

[username in use]

Hey there, Im new to seahorses, but have been into reefs for a while. My girlfriend really wants a sea horse tank, she says they look forlorn haha, but we dont want to set up another large tank in the apartment. Ive been looking at craigslist for some used tanks and was considering either a hexagon tank, or a corner bow tank. What are your thoughts on this and the long term success of those shapes with seahorses. I wouldnt go much bigger than a 36 hex or 50 corner, and I know that height is an issue with these little buggers. If I go with the hex, I will probably drill the bottom and do a center overflow so its got the 360 view, and the corner would have the overflow in the back obviously. Any tips or recomendations for this are greatly appreciated even if its only to say that I shouldnt do it. I dont want to set something up that will be overly stressful for the creatures, or end up being more work than it is worth for me. Thanks in advance.

Joshua

 

[novahobbies]

Hex tanks have some definite pluses and minuses ascribed to them, and if you take the time to overcome their drawbacks, they can make very nice seahorse tanks.

Make sure the hex you're looking at is a decent size: a 20g hex would be the BARE minimum, whereas a 35g hex would be ideal for 2-3 H. reidi or H. erectus. If you're looking for slightly smaller horses (H. barbouri for example), the 20-25 g size hex may be acceptable. The nice thing about the 35g hex is the height: Seahorses are very vertically oriented animals, and as such they can and do utilize the entire water column of their tank. This is where one of the "pluses" of hex tanks comes in to play..they are usually nice and tall for their footprint.

One of the major drawbacks of hex tanks is often, ironically, directly in relation to that above-mentioned height: because hex tanks are so tall, they lose some filtration and water movement near the bottom of the tank. Seahorses are primitive animals, and they NEED a slightly higher O2 saturation in the water compared to most fish. Their gills just aren't as advanced. The "dead zones" in the bottom of a hex tank are often lower in O2 concentration than a seahorse is comfortable with, and this must be dealt with before horses can be kept. Thankfully there are plenty of ways you can do this. A powerhead (properly fitted with foam to keep the horses from getting hurt) midway down the tank pointed slightly down against a wall will help keep the lower levels mixed and oxygenated. I use a koralia-one with seahorses and have never had any issues with the seahorse getting stuck against the casing. Many seahorse enthusiasts will also keep a simple hard-plastic air line bubbling from the very bottom of the tank. There should be no airstone on this if you do it; just the simple large bubbles help with water movement in those lower reaches of the tank.

I'm not sure how enthused I am about the overflow the way you have it. It sounds interesting, but remember that horses are very delicate and none too strong when it comes to swimming....just make sure they can't get swept over the o-flow, or even possibly trapped against the overflow teeth. You can also utilize a good cannister or even a HOB style filter such as the cascade-300 if you wish.

Any way you choose, remember: when you start your build......
POST PICS!!

 

[username in use]

Good info, thanks. I was thinking about maybe doing 2 returns through the bottom of the tank, putting the fresh water back in at the bottom, and letting it get to the top by way of the overfloww sucking it up and over. I usderstand the poor swimming and was plannning on making a mesh surround for the overflow that would keep anything swimming by at least an inch or two away from the overflow on all sides. I want as little equipment in the tank as possible, that is why I am thinking of this setup. You said you use a K1, what kind of flow can these guys handle. I figured on a mag5 return pump that would do about 400gph after head loss, split between two outlets and I would aim them to create a full gyre, clockwise or counterclockwise. For a sump, as hex tanks are tricky, I figured on a bucket. I have a couple of 7 gallon buckets and even a really tall 25g bucket that may make the cut, but I have a fair amount of planning still before I decide. What kind of lighting have you found you need to grow the macros and sponges that these little guys like?

 

[Elysia]

For lighting, you basically want something that isn't going to give off a lot of heat, as it is best for the health of tropical horses to remain in tank water that is 70-74 degrees F (although they can go lower.)

 

[username in use]

I was planning on a few t5s, whatever I can retro fit into a homemade hood.

 

[Elysia]

I think that would work well. Depending on the tank's depth, it should get light down to the bottom. I have a 24" deep tank w/ HO T5s and the lighting is fine (although I haven't tried to grow any SPS beyond some Montis in it.)

 

[username in use]

I wont be growing any corals in this tank. Maybe a gorgonian, but it will be mostly macro's and a sponge or two. Maybe a nice little brain at the bottom or some mushrooms. Ill go for the whole lagoon biotope for the horses.

 

[namxas]

our larger SH setup is an acrylic 50 gal pent. it has a O/F wall installed in the back. it runs on a Mag 7 for the mains and a Mag 5 for the CL which has 3 returns, with two of them on a SCWD. there is also a 1/10 hp chiller on its own pump (MJ 1200) as well as another MJ behind the O/F wall that provides additional surface turbulance.

don't be afraid of flow...just make sure the SH aren't buffeted around and that there are some calmer areas.

lighting can be whatever you want...SH aren't picky. we run a 96W 50-50 power quad PC on the tank due to its shape.

i highly recommend LR and live macro for SH setups. it provides both hitching and hunting areas, and is an aid in water quality as SH are hard on water.

some inspiration:

 

[username in use]

nice looking horse setup. So they can handle some flow then?

 

[novahobbies]

Every time I see that picture I smile...I love that setup. It really shows off what one can do to make a seahorse tank "pop." I'm also a big fan of macros in the display tank for horses. They're asthetically pleasing, help as hitches for the seahorses, provide shelter for copepods, and of course add a little biological filtration through nutrient export to your system. Just make sure, esp. with caulerpa species, they don't go sexual and dissolve on you. It seems that constant pruning and removal of the older colonies helps offset that problem....at least it had for me when I was keeping caulerpa.

About your flow question: yes, seahorses can handle more flow than many people realize. On the other hand, please don't go shoving them in to a SPS-reef style tank with the cyclonic flow people use in those systems! As namxas said, the trick is to provide them with areas that have moderate current and areas that are calm, to allow them to hitch w/o expending any extra energy to hang on.

To give you an idea, I was running a 37g tall-cube shaped tank (20x18x24") with an Emperor-400 HOB biowheel and a single Koralia-1 powerhead. The HOB filter is rated at 400gph, as is the K-1, so I was pushing 800gph around in the tank. The H. reidis loved it; in fact they were often more sedentary in the tank BEFORE I added the Koralia. After I added the K-1, they became more acctive, surfing around in the current. I've heard of other people who have seen this too...a horse will occasionally deliberately get in the jet stream of the powerhead, allow himself to be pushed along in the flow, then swim back and do it over and over again. After I added the first Koralia, I thought I would see what they would do if I tried ANOTHER pump. A second Koralia-1 was added, and I adjusted the flow so there was an area of dissonance....I was trying to keep things mixed up on the lower reaches of the tank, obviously. BAD idea. the extra flow was too much for them. I now had 1200gph of flow rate in a 37 gallon tank, and it was just too much. The horses were hanging on for dear life. Obviously I turned it off again.

The hex tank idea you're describing sounds really interesting. If you follow your plan of a 35-ish gallon hex with 400gph for your sump pump, I would say you'd be well within your limits of getting a single K-1, or perhaps even better, a pair of 240gph koralia nano powerheads. I'd love to see how you go about with this plan, so you'd better post pics!

Oh! One more thing you should know! Check the specs of your tank and see if the bottom is tempered! The way you're describing it, you're going to have your overflow and returns from the middle bottom of the tank, right? I just checked Marineland hex tanks, and they're tempered on the bottom from the 27 gallon and up. I don't have data on aqueon tanks, but I'm willing to bet they're tempered also. You may have to special-order a non-tempered tank, or a pre-drilled tank. I know Marineland aquariums has a feature that allows you to do this. Just food for thought! Believe me, I've accidentally broken a LARGE piece of tempered glass. You do NOT want to go doin' that! :lolspin:

 

[username in use]

Yeah, Ive been figuring that the bottom would be tempered, so I may need to rethink how I am going to do the overflow and returns. I think I can still do a center overflow, just turn it 90degrees about 2 inches from the bottom and have it go out the back glass. With a little creative plumbing and stand building I think I can hide it all and create the same illusion. Ill probably bring the returns back in the same way. It will take a little planning and some work, but Im pretty handy with plumbing and carpentry so it shouldnt be anything I cant handle. I was also thinking about blacking out the back wall and doing a more traditional overflow and return setup, but I really like the idea of the center. I figure if its in the center I can drill holes in my live rocks and stack them over the center pipe to hide it and give me a cool pillar in the middle. We'll see, lots to think about. My girlfriend keeps saying she wants a yellow one or a red one, its funny, when we go look at fish and corals and whatnot she always manages to pick out the single most expensive thing in the store and than say "why dont we get that one?" But Im into it too, so she's just feeding the monkey haha.

 

[namxas]

My girlfriend keeps saying she wants a yellow one or a red one,

one thing to know: SH will pretty much be any color they darned well please, so i wouldn't pay "extra" for coloration. also, H. reidi are generally the most colorful, altho i've seen some awesome-looking H. erectus as well.

that being said, some folks say they have luck with adding colored hitches/backs on their SH tanx, but i've never had it make a difference. i did have some pretty yellow reidi that colored WAY up when i added the macro to their tank, but i think it was a comfort thing (they didn't turn green!). if SH aren't comfy, they tend to go dark, but this isn't always a sign of stress...sometimes they just go dark.

BTW, i'd get true CB SH from a reputable breeder of hobbyist/breeder. Dan (DanU) at seahorse source or Beth (Peka) at seahorse corral both are tops.

 

[novahobbies]

one thing to know: SH will pretty much be any color they darned well please, so i wouldn't pay "extra" for coloration. also, H. reidi are generally the most colorful, altho i've seen some awesome-looking H. erectus as well.

that being said, some folks say they have luck with adding colored hitches/backs on their SH tanx, but i've never had it make a difference. i did have some pretty yellow reidi that colored WAY up when i added the macro to their tank, but i think it was a comfort thing (they didn't turn green!). if SH aren't comfy, they tend to go dark, but this isn't always a sign of stress...sometimes they just go dark.

Yup. See those H. reidis in my avatar? they only stayed that bright yellow for about 10 months. They eventually faded to a light yellow brown instead

 

[novahobbies]

I was also thinking about blacking out the back wall and doing a more traditional overflow and return setup, but I really like the idea of the center. I figure if its in the center I can drill holes in my live rocks and stack them over the center pipe to hide it and give me a cool pillar in the middle.

You can still do your pillar idea even if you use a traditional oerflow. This is a thing I've been doing for a while now with my tanks....sort of taking the ideas of the "foam wall" and the PVC live frame and putting them together. I use a hollow 2-inch pvc tube, cut caves out of it with a dremel, then foam dry tufa and miami oolite rock onto the pvc. The foam acts as both a glue for the rock and a filler so you don't see the pvc, and when it's dried and expanded you can cut it easily in angular rough shapes to match the rocks. When it is finished you end up with a striking rock column that is saltwater-safe, and although it's all dry rock, the porousness of the tufa helps bacteria colonize the stone quickly.
You could do the exact same thing, say, on a tank overflow pillar. If you end up building a standard overflow that looks like the megaflow brand, you could turn the entire thing into a rock column that is just pressed up on that back glass partition. Obviously you'd have to do this before you set the tank up.... the foam drips, so the tank would have to be laying on its back.

It's hard to explain...here's a picture of a more involved column (trio of columns actually) that I built for my seahorse tank reset. As you can see, this one has been painted with krylon fusion paints (reef safe) to give it a little visual appeal while the rock grows its algae and coralline deposits. I also have faux coral plugs here and there; these can be replaced with real coral as time goes on. Something like this, when done against a top-to-bottom overflow, would look pretty nice I think.

 

[username in use]

Thanks for the info on color. I like the foam pillars that you made, I may end up going that route depending on where its going to be setup. she originaly was ok with it being more in the room, but it may be relegated to a corner now, in which case I can run it all out the back without seeing it. This will actually work out easier for me in the long run.

Also, thanks for the tip on the breeders, Ill definitely look into that when it comes time to buy some.