just got quote of 155$ JUST for the pre cut acrylic (OUUCH) so the custom tank is OUT, the fact that for 40$ more i can get the entire tank setup from my LFS is the reason for this. So I think i will be going with the 37 Gallon but we will see as i progress with this. How many watts will i need to for the live rock?
starting a seahorse tank?
- Thread starter fishymann
- Start date
nynex
New member
Fishymann regular freshwater flourescents will not be bright enough. You need 2
to 4 watts a gallon. You need Power Compacts. At the very least 2 x 65 watt
system. You can find a cheap system on ebay for around $49 or spend about a
$100 more and go with Coralife 2 x 65 watt which will run you at the very least
$120.
This hobby is not cheap...and if you try to go the cheap route and cut corners, Im
afraid you will find yourself spending more money correcting your mistake when
your tank crashes. I would really research this before you do it. I suggest getting
a book from Robert Fenner called the "The Conscientous Marine Aquarist". I
learned alot from this book. Most Saltwater guys call this book the bible of the
Saltwater Hobby.
Hope this helps....
to 4 watts a gallon. You need Power Compacts. At the very least 2 x 65 watt
system. You can find a cheap system on ebay for around $49 or spend about a
$100 more and go with Coralife 2 x 65 watt which will run you at the very least
$120.
This hobby is not cheap...and if you try to go the cheap route and cut corners, Im
afraid you will find yourself spending more money correcting your mistake when
your tank crashes. I would really research this before you do it. I suggest getting
a book from Robert Fenner called the "The Conscientous Marine Aquarist". I
learned alot from this book. Most Saltwater guys call this book the bible of the
Saltwater Hobby.
Hope this helps....
nynex
New member
Remember the smaller your tank the harder to keep stable...unless you really know what you are doing. 37 gallon is pretty small for saltwater, unless once again...you really know what you are doing. The only reason Im doing a 20 gallon for my seahorse tank is because im running it through my 125 wet/dry that is connected to my 75 gallon tank...So basicly the 20 gallon will be a part of the 75 gallon system. Working as one 95 gallon tank and therefore the stability of both tanks should be good.
Anyway I would suggest to get robert fenners book...its very informative.
Anyway I would suggest to get robert fenners book...its very informative.
I was just looking at power compacts because i realized that fw flourescents wouldnt be enough. I thank you for the help and I apprecaite it all.
I was looking at 30" satellite 1x65Watt with lunar light and saw it for around 65$ but your saying that the 2x65 is more what i need for this tank even though there will be no coral.
I was looking at 30" satellite 1x65Watt with lunar light and saw it for around 65$ but your saying that the 2x65 is more what i need for this tank even though there will be no coral.
nynex
New member
Oh and I would also put alot of live rock in your tank if you are gonna use a
hang on back filter. Plus a good protein skimmer. You would probably be better
off going with a Fluval 205 canaster filter rather then a HOB filter. I believe the 205
is the smallest canaster filter and would be alot better then a HOB filter. If you decide
to go with an HOB...I would get a Marineland Bio wheel 400. Nothing smaller..
hang on back filter. Plus a good protein skimmer. You would probably be better
off going with a Fluval 205 canaster filter rather then a HOB filter. I believe the 205
is the smallest canaster filter and would be alot better then a HOB filter. If you decide
to go with an HOB...I would get a Marineland Bio wheel 400. Nothing smaller..
ann83
New member
More turnover is good, more flow is bad. Unfortunately with the Marineland biowheels you can't turn down the flow. With a canister, you need a spraybar b/c the seahorses definately can't handle the flow from one of those without it. That being said, cannisters are still a good idea. So are refugiums. I don't know the exact wattage you need for your LR, but often people recommend the wattage to grow the purple coraline, but the rock doesn't need coraline to be alive. Definately get at least 1 pound of LR per gallon of water. The requirements for a seahorse aquarium are different from that of a reef aquarium. I suggest you double check all of your ideas at www.seahorse.org.
nynex
New member
Yes ann is exactly right. I guess I just play it safe with the lighting. I was just
suggesting that if you use a HOB..that the marineland bio wheels were the best
HOB filter...You want as much turnover as possible. But I would rather say go with
the canister. Yes the seahorses like it calm and not alot of flow,so yes you need a
spraybar. Because Im running mine into my 125 wet/dry connected to my 75
gallon...Im using an overflow, which I personaly believe is the best way to do it.
But for you, I would say a fluval 205 or 305 canister with a spraybar..would be
your best option. Unless you want to invest in a wet/dry.
suggesting that if you use a HOB..that the marineland bio wheels were the best
HOB filter...You want as much turnover as possible. But I would rather say go with
the canister. Yes the seahorses like it calm and not alot of flow,so yes you need a
spraybar. Because Im running mine into my 125 wet/dry connected to my 75
gallon...Im using an overflow, which I personaly believe is the best way to do it.
But for you, I would say a fluval 205 or 305 canister with a spraybar..would be
your best option. Unless you want to invest in a wet/dry.
Fishyman. Sounds like a nice seahorse system you are planning. 37 gallon is a good size.
I used 2 40w NO fluorescent over my 40g breeder for two years. I was able to grow macro algae and coraline under those lights just fine. I even managed to keep some Discosoma mushroom corals alive under these lights though they did not really grow.
Go with whatever lighting you find pleasing to the eye. Power compacts will probably fit better over a hex tank. 1x 65 is a reasonable starting point.
Live rock and sand are there for decoration and for filgration/nitrogen processing. I personally would go with both live rock and sand as that gives you more flexibility on aquascaping.
The 1lb of rock per gallon is an old rule of thumb form way back that is meaningless given what we now know about filtration and bioload processing. There is nothing wrong with using lots of rock, its just not needed.
Basically you have a bunch of tools at your disposal to maintain good water quality: live rock and sand, skimmers, water changes, adsorptive media, macro algae ...
I personally like to use a combination of live rock, live sand and macro algae. The rock and sand support lots of worms and critters that will eat and help process extra food and waste from your horses. They also act as a surface for bacteria that further process waste as well as converting nitrates to harmles nitrogen gas.
Macro algae is good for also absorbing an using nitrogen and phosphates and getting them out of your system before they drive the growth of nuisance algae. On top of that, they act as a good home for amphipods and copepods: live food for your seahorses.
Skimmers are very good in that they remove a lot of waste before it breaks down into basic elements like nitrate and phosphate. There are some good threads on skimmers and how they work in the advanced forum
There are a lot of threads in this forum on starting a seahorse tank and I would suggest that you take a day or two to browse through those posts as well. There is a lot of good info in these posts.
Fred
Yes they are. Anne gave lots and lots of good advice. For lighting, you don't need anything fancy unless, as Anne wrote, you are keeping corals. Live rock requires 0 light. Its live because of the bacteria and invertibrate life it carries. Many corline algae need very little light to grow.
I used 2 40w NO fluorescent over my 40g breeder for two years. I was able to grow macro algae and coraline under those lights just fine. I even managed to keep some Discosoma mushroom corals alive under these lights though they did not really grow.
Go with whatever lighting you find pleasing to the eye. Power compacts will probably fit better over a hex tank. 1x 65 is a reasonable starting point.
Live rock and sand are there for decoration and for filgration/nitrogen processing. I personally would go with both live rock and sand as that gives you more flexibility on aquascaping.
The 1lb of rock per gallon is an old rule of thumb form way back that is meaningless given what we now know about filtration and bioload processing. There is nothing wrong with using lots of rock, its just not needed.
Basically you have a bunch of tools at your disposal to maintain good water quality: live rock and sand, skimmers, water changes, adsorptive media, macro algae ...
I personally like to use a combination of live rock, live sand and macro algae. The rock and sand support lots of worms and critters that will eat and help process extra food and waste from your horses. They also act as a surface for bacteria that further process waste as well as converting nitrates to harmles nitrogen gas.
Macro algae is good for also absorbing an using nitrogen and phosphates and getting them out of your system before they drive the growth of nuisance algae. On top of that, they act as a good home for amphipods and copepods: live food for your seahorses.
Skimmers are very good in that they remove a lot of waste before it breaks down into basic elements like nitrate and phosphate. There are some good threads on skimmers and how they work in the advanced forum
There are a lot of threads in this forum on starting a seahorse tank and I would suggest that you take a day or two to browse through those posts as well. There is a lot of good info in these posts.
Fred
alright, im going to post this up at seahorse.org but im waiting for the admin to OK me.
Option 1:
37 Gallon
Stock lighting
Aquaclear 110
15-20Lbs of LIVE ROCK
2†bed of Aragalive Reef Sand
Option 2:
37 Gallon
30†Satellite 1x65 Watt w\lunar light
Aquaclear 110
15-20Lbs of LIVE ROCK
2†bed of Aragalive Reef Sand
Option 3:
37 Gallon
30†dual Satellite 2x65 Watt w\lunar light
fluval 205
15-20Lbs of LIVE ROCK
2†bed of Aragalive Reef Sand
Basically i just realized i have a 37G sitting around so that just saved me money
so i think option 1 is pointless and i mine as well spend the extra money for option 2 but would that be okay? Also i lowered the amount of rock because of fred's comment.
Option 1:
37 Gallon
Stock lighting
Aquaclear 110
15-20Lbs of LIVE ROCK
2†bed of Aragalive Reef Sand
Option 2:
37 Gallon
30†Satellite 1x65 Watt w\lunar light
Aquaclear 110
15-20Lbs of LIVE ROCK
2†bed of Aragalive Reef Sand
Option 3:
37 Gallon
30†dual Satellite 2x65 Watt w\lunar light
fluval 205
15-20Lbs of LIVE ROCK
2†bed of Aragalive Reef Sand
Basically i just realized i have a 37G sitting around so that just saved me money
so i think option 1 is pointless and i mine as well spend the extra money for option 2 but would that be okay? Also i lowered the amount of rock because of fred's comment.ALright, i need help. SKimmer yes or no? I'm 99% sure im going with the aquaclear 110 filter. Also the room temp is around 70F degrees so i only need to raise the temperature about 4 degrees (correct?) so would a 50Watt heater be fine or 100?
Also i'm gonna call up my LFS and find out about what they have as far as sand, so how many pounds do i need and what type?
Also i'm gonna call up my LFS and find out about what they have as far as sand, so how many pounds do i need and what type?
ann83
New member
Don't go with the 50 Watt. The 100 Watt should be fine, but the heater is really something you should spend your money on. If it goes haywire it could electrocute or overheat the aquarium. Some people will actually get two 50's on opposite ends of the aquarium instead of a 100, b/c it more evenly heats the aquarium and it also gives the fish someplace to run if one of them decides to cook the aquarium.
Skimmers are up to debate for a seahorse aquarium. Lots of seahorse keepers don't use them, and lots swear by them. It used to be that people thought skimmers contributed to gas bubble disease and pouch emphasyma, but I think that has been debunked. The big thing is, skimmers don't work as well in lower salinities because particles don't stay suspended in the column as long (reef tanks are kept at higher salinity than fish only aquariums), and they also MAY strip the water of nutrients that macro algae need, and many seahorse keepers keep macro algae in their aquarium for their horses.
30 lbs of sand should be fine for a shallow sand bed. Depending on the design of your aquarium, 15 or 20 may even be fine for a SSB. If you want a deep sand bed, I don't know how much you need. For an SSB, you only need 1" of sand, for a DSB you need 3" or more. Put the LR in first so that it sits flat on the bottom of the aquarium and won't shift as much. You want argonite sand, not silica-based sand. Any brand is fine, and it doesn't need to be live.
Also, when considering heaters and temperature, in the summer, will the room the aquarium is in get above 76 degrees? If it will, you may need to consider a chiller, or at least the possiblility that you will need to run a clip on fan aimed at the surface (which means higher electricity costs and more purchases of RO/DI water since there will be more evaporation).
What species are you considering keeping?
Skimmers are up to debate for a seahorse aquarium. Lots of seahorse keepers don't use them, and lots swear by them. It used to be that people thought skimmers contributed to gas bubble disease and pouch emphasyma, but I think that has been debunked. The big thing is, skimmers don't work as well in lower salinities because particles don't stay suspended in the column as long (reef tanks are kept at higher salinity than fish only aquariums), and they also MAY strip the water of nutrients that macro algae need, and many seahorse keepers keep macro algae in their aquarium for their horses.
30 lbs of sand should be fine for a shallow sand bed. Depending on the design of your aquarium, 15 or 20 may even be fine for a SSB. If you want a deep sand bed, I don't know how much you need. For an SSB, you only need 1" of sand, for a DSB you need 3" or more. Put the LR in first so that it sits flat on the bottom of the aquarium and won't shift as much. You want argonite sand, not silica-based sand. Any brand is fine, and it doesn't need to be live.
Also, when considering heaters and temperature, in the summer, will the room the aquarium is in get above 76 degrees? If it will, you may need to consider a chiller, or at least the possiblility that you will need to run a clip on fan aimed at the surface (which means higher electricity costs and more purchases of RO/DI water since there will be more evaporation).
What species are you considering keeping?
pledosophy
Active member
Protein skimmers suck on seahorses tanks. They do
They suck in water to work.
The correlation through purely ancedotal evidence on the relationship between HOB protein skimmers and GBDis real, and has not been disproven to my satisfaction. I conceed many of the studies by University's and PHD marine biologists don't seem to stand up to the scrutiny of the members of this site, but whatever.
Skimmers do remove certain wastes, but they also remove life that will be used as food, and directly compete with macro algaes.
Skimmers rob system of food = bad
Refugiums provide food = good.
Both reduce nitrates, and provide cleaner water. Anyways.
I guess if your not planning on keeping maro algaes, and are going with a shallow sand bed, as well as running the system without a sump, then I would probably run a HOB skimmer as well. I like the Aqau C remora. I use it on my 20g SPS tank, in the sump, it doesn't pull out much but I do have a 40g sump filled with macro . . . so. It is a good skimmer that produces very little micro bubbles if any at all.
I too am planning a 37g tank soon. I'm assuming from your lighting description your going with the 30" by 12" footprint. Lighting is a chore. I really like T5 lights for seahorse tanks since they put out so much light and burn so cool, but unfortunatley they don't seem to make a 30" T5 fixture. I do have a 30" satelite fixture in my garage. I liked it but it did produce some heat even with the exhaust fan and the mounting brackets keeping it a couple inches off the tank surface.
Liverock is my favorite filter, but I like to run mechanical as well. Look into the Magnum HOB cannister filter as it is a great filter with an outstanding reputation and gives you control over the media you use.
As far as the heater, i'd do a 50w. 74F is the recommended maxium temperature. Not the needed temp. If your keeping tropical species without corals 70F is fine. Personally on my horse only tanks I set the heater at 70F and leave it there. Seahorses will do fine at 70 and far lower. The lower temp is great for long term succsess. Cooling tanks is usually more of an issue then heating tanks for most hobbyists. As long as your not dropping below 68F for tropical horses I would not worry, even then if not long term lower temps are dandy.
I plan on running my 37g tall seahorse tank with many species of macro algae, a 25g sump with a "cryptic zone" like Tyree speaks of, a fluval 304, 40 lbs of LR, a 1" sandbed, an 18w UV and either the 130w satellite fixture or a 150w MH bulb. SHould be fun.
Did you register on the org yet? What's your SN.
They suck in water to work. The correlation through purely ancedotal evidence on the relationship between HOB protein skimmers and GBDis real, and has not been disproven to my satisfaction. I conceed many of the studies by University's and PHD marine biologists don't seem to stand up to the scrutiny of the members of this site, but whatever.
Skimmers do remove certain wastes, but they also remove life that will be used as food, and directly compete with macro algaes.
Skimmers rob system of food = bad
Refugiums provide food = good.
Both reduce nitrates, and provide cleaner water. Anyways.
I guess if your not planning on keeping maro algaes, and are going with a shallow sand bed, as well as running the system without a sump, then I would probably run a HOB skimmer as well. I like the Aqau C remora. I use it on my 20g SPS tank, in the sump, it doesn't pull out much but I do have a 40g sump filled with macro . . . so. It is a good skimmer that produces very little micro bubbles if any at all.
I too am planning a 37g tank soon. I'm assuming from your lighting description your going with the 30" by 12" footprint. Lighting is a chore. I really like T5 lights for seahorse tanks since they put out so much light and burn so cool, but unfortunatley they don't seem to make a 30" T5 fixture. I do have a 30" satelite fixture in my garage. I liked it but it did produce some heat even with the exhaust fan and the mounting brackets keeping it a couple inches off the tank surface.
Liverock is my favorite filter, but I like to run mechanical as well. Look into the Magnum HOB cannister filter as it is a great filter with an outstanding reputation and gives you control over the media you use.
As far as the heater, i'd do a 50w. 74F is the recommended maxium temperature. Not the needed temp. If your keeping tropical species without corals 70F is fine. Personally on my horse only tanks I set the heater at 70F and leave it there. Seahorses will do fine at 70 and far lower. The lower temp is great for long term succsess. Cooling tanks is usually more of an issue then heating tanks for most hobbyists. As long as your not dropping below 68F for tropical horses I would not worry, even then if not long term lower temps are dandy.
I plan on running my 37g tall seahorse tank with many species of macro algae, a 25g sump with a "cryptic zone" like Tyree speaks of, a fluval 304, 40 lbs of LR, a 1" sandbed, an 18w UV and either the 130w satellite fixture or a 150w MH bulb. SHould be fun.
Did you register on the org yet? What's your SN.
pledosophy
Active member
Forgot, for the sandbed your going to need about one bag of Carbi Live sand. I really like to use livesand in my tanks and suggest others do the same. Total sand needed for a 2" bed is 23 lbs (as caculated by RC's sandbed caculator). Less is fine, but IMO you either need to do 2" or under or more then 4". Since it's seahorses and they like the height I opt for the shallower bed for the display. If you were going to use a sump or reugium a DSB there would be great.
HTH
HTH
awesome guys thanks so much for the quick response. I found a dealer on ebay 1.5$\lb for live base rock. SO i think i'm going to get most from that and i think i'm going to just go with non live sand (cheaper, and the fact that live sand isnt needed)
As far as temp, the summers change like crazy where i live. one day it can be 80s outside and another day it can be low 70s. There is a powerful air conditioner in the room where it will be going so that could help cool down the tank.
Species is the next question, i've heard of Hippocampus reidi, Hippocampus erectus and dwarf but i understand dwarf are really only ment to be in nano setups. So i was sort of wonder what kinds are easy to keep easy enough to find. Also from what i've read two females will be the easiest to keep? ANyone suggest any online stores?
As far as temp, the summers change like crazy where i live. one day it can be 80s outside and another day it can be low 70s. There is a powerful air conditioner in the room where it will be going so that could help cool down the tank.
Species is the next question, i've heard of Hippocampus reidi, Hippocampus erectus and dwarf but i understand dwarf are really only ment to be in nano setups. So i was sort of wonder what kinds are easy to keep easy enough to find. Also from what i've read two females will be the easiest to keep? ANyone suggest any online stores?
ann83
New member
www.seahorsesource.com and www.dracomarine.org both get good reviews from seahorse keepers and reliably sell captive bred species. You want a tropical species, so Reidi, Kuda, Erectus, and Barbouri are all commonly available species that you could easily keep. Dwarf's are difficult because they need a nano and hatched brine shrimp, so they definately wouldn't work for you. Also, avoid subtropical and temperate species, like the potbelly seahorse because those need a chiller. Don't order from somewhere where their prices are good, because their horses are likely wild caught or pen-raised, which means more diseases and parasites and less likelihood that they will eat frozen. Have you registered at www.seahorse.org yet? You really should spend a week or two reading on the org before you put in cleanup crew, and definately before you put in horses. Really, while you are waiting for your tank to cycle and your live rock to cure, you should have several weeks to spend on the web site looking around and asking questions. It also will probably help you decide which horses you want.
i'm having trouble with seahorse.org it keeps giving me problems with registering. After looking around i think im going to go with the kuda, adult size around 5 inches 72-77Fdegrees. Here is where im confused, i googled the Kuda and got that as the "average" information. I went to live aquaria to look at prices and they are saying up to one foot and at least 50Gallons
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2179
HUH?
Here is sort of what im doing and such:
Im waiting to hear back from a buddy of mine about another tank, once i get the tank the 37Gallon will be available. I need to buy a stand, the lighting, the filter, the heater, the sand, and the rock (sand and rock might be from ebay found a few good deals), fill it with water allow it to cylce\ cure.
All of that im planning on doing over the span of two or three months. Because of both money restrictions and i want to take this slow, so yes i will have plenty of time to research befor any live stock is added.
One final thing for this post, since im going to be getting the 2x65 watt nynex said that would be enough to add some coral later on. Until then what should i add for the SH to perch on? branch rock but anything else?
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2179
HUH?
Here is sort of what im doing and such:
Im waiting to hear back from a buddy of mine about another tank, once i get the tank the 37Gallon will be available. I need to buy a stand, the lighting, the filter, the heater, the sand, and the rock (sand and rock might be from ebay found a few good deals), fill it with water allow it to cylce\ cure.
All of that im planning on doing over the span of two or three months. Because of both money restrictions and i want to take this slow, so yes i will have plenty of time to research befor any live stock is added.
One final thing for this post, since im going to be getting the 2x65 watt nynex said that would be enough to add some coral later on. Until then what should i add for the SH to perch on? branch rock but anything else?
