Steps to BB?

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10006084#post10006084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hurleycr


basically less maint. now due to algae outbreak that is driving me up a wall.

the post should have read more along the lines of less maint. more often kind of thing. not just less maint.

Going barebottom isnt going to fix an algae outbreak. If you switch from sand to bb, and dont fix your husbandry/equipment issues, you're just going to have an algae filled tank without sand.

You need to up your nutrient export. This has nothing to do with BB/Sand.

 

[boxfishpooalot]

Wont solve the algae problem, but definitely reduces the load of nutrients on the system. And no risk of H2S. Harbors less bacteria.
Once you get a bb system tweeked, its easy to maintain it.

The biggest factors affecting bb tanks are how good the skimmer is working, whats in your live rock(Po4) and how much you have, water flow and fish load.

 

[boxfishpooalot]

Meshmod it, and it'll pull more air than most becketts. Mine is pulling 50+ scfh at this point.

Got a pic with the meter? I dont believe you

I tried it with the gutter gaurd, did not do much. I even rounded edeges.

 

[hurleycr]

I understand that just going BB isn't going to fix it, nor should it. That's why I said I will cook the rocks, which I admit to not fully understanding the biology that goes on with that whole process and may just be a fad that will be laughed at next year. But its my understanding that the bacteria will feast upon the remaining algae until the bacteria out numbers the PO4 or something to that effect.

I have already stated that sucking out the poo with weekly
waterchanges will happen, and of course the old turkey baster will be used as well. Is that not enough?

My only issue right now is that I had a dirty RO filter that was letting PO4 into the tank. That was my fault and I understand why/where it came from. However after changing the filters out it has dramatically decreased, but it just won't stay gone. So i'm assuming that the PO4 is coming from the sand/rock and the sand bed is getting funky, as I suspected months ago. After I messed up a little bit of the sand bed and stuff went crazy for two months. I now have green hair algae that goes away at night, and comes back by the end of the day, which isn't really killing me but it tells me that rock either needs more flow or needs something.

So what other equipment issue are you talking about? I'm going to significantly increase the flow, and I'm going change my monthly maint. to a weekly maint. in smaller portions.

How else should I "up" the nutrient export other than upgrading the skimmer down the line? I really didn't want to get into the whole refugium thing again. I never had great success with doing that, it just seemed I kept the algae in it sustained and it never really grew to a point that others do.

I will also be running a filter sock, however I don't think I will be able to change and rinse it daily, every weekend yes, daily not really.

Please don't take offense i'm not questioning your experience in any way. I just thought that I was taking the right/enough steps to do this right, and if I understand you are saying that i'm not.


boxfishpooalot - I'm assuming your referring to another post in the RO mod thread?

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10008764#post10008764 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
The biggest factors affecting bb tanks are how good the skimmer is working, whats in your live rock(Po4) and how much you have, water flow and fish load.

Which are the same as a DSB. Theyre only different if you have inferior equipment.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10009440#post10009440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hurleycr
I understand that just going BB isn't going to fix it, nor should it. That's why I said I will cook the rocks, which I admit to not fully understanding the biology that goes on with that whole process and may just be a fad that will be laughed at next year. But its my understanding that the bacteria will feast upon the remaining algae until the bacteria out numbers the PO4 or something to that effect.
\

And that will happen, and the tank will look good. But if you dont fix the bad habits, it'll be a year down the road and you'll be in the same place.


Boxfish, I'll post some pics later. The girlfriend is out, and I think she has the digicam.

 

[hurleycr]

Bad habits being what exactly? The RO filter? c'mon once in like 5 years I didn't check my RO water. I know you guys are on top of your stuff, but anyone could do that given the right circumstances.

Its just this time I ignored it longer than what I should have and bam I had an algae problem.

 

[RichConley]

I dont mean bad habits necessarily. Just saying that taking out the sand isnt going to really DO anything. If you increase flow, skim wetter, etc, then you'll see improvement.

I just see too many people thinking switching to BB will solve their problems, and then not fixing what was actually the problem (skimmer, flow, whatever).


It sounds like you're gonna deal with the flow, which should help right off the bat. As to the skimmer, if its not doing what you want it to do, meshmod it before you buy a different on. Theyre pretty powerful.

 

[hurleycr]

well, i only have a 120 with sump around 150 or so. NW - 200 has skimmed great out of the box from day one. I put the gate valve mod on it and kept it clean. I really would like to mod it with the wheel but, i don't want to get into having to extend the neck. I also have fear of that mesh coming apart in salt water and damaging the pump.

at some point I will upgrade the skimmer to, like I said before, the Bubble Master 250 or the 3 Pump Recirc RO or something in that price range.

I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you was pointing something out with the whole bad habit deal.

To me increasing flow (well just cuz you can), skim wetter, ozone, and weekly water changes, and cooking the rock (depending on how bad it is) are all a part of going BB. Not just taking the sand out and waving my magic wand and then pull out a 2ft x 4ft acro out.

I understand that apparently lots and lots of people do this stuff on these boards without researching, and asking questions, and taking criticism from those questions. It took me four years of tinkering, playing, researching, and asking millions of stupid questions before I even tried one single SPS, except for one pocilipora that I sustained only for six months or so in the second year. So I def. understand where the judgement came from.

Your input is very much appreciated. Do you think that me moving the fish and coral to a 55 with only PC lighting will be OK for a few weeks? 5-6 that is

 

[RichConley]

The fish, definitely. The corals, I'm not really sure.

I'd make sure you keep them up high...if they start browning out to the point you're worried about them, find a friend who can board them.

 

[cloak]

^

 

[hurleycr]

yeah well, no friends here at least that reef. I was going to build a coral rack out of egg crate to get them up really high. I'm super worried about it, I just can't figure out a better way without investing in more lighting and thats not happening for a tank I only use for QTing fish in.

 

[hurleycr]

RichConley,

i was wondering, I really want to cook the rocks now that I understand more about it. I have been reading like crazy, but I'm having a huge problem finding time to do all this. Man if I cook the rocks my tank could be down for months.

Is it really a neccesity for ultimate succes? I don't have an issue with siphoning the crap out as it sheds, but I have a huge issue with not having my tank set up for months.

thx in advance....

 

[hulley]

In December of 2005 my 90g crashed! I tooked the tank down and cooked the rocks for 8weeks. During that time I read and read and read everything I could here on RC. Although BB wasnt the "popular" way of doing things, I decided it was the way I wanted to do things. I do believe that cooking the rocks played a huge part in the success of my 90g part II. The rocks looked beautiful and the tank was very healthy. So healthy that I recently set-up a 180g (BB of course!) because I was enjoying the hobby again. No longer did I have the feeling of fighting the elements! Good luck!

 

[King-Kong]

Hurleyc; it's not required, but strongly suggested. The cooking can help properly purge your rock of many nuissance algaes, as well. Some of these aglaes may not even showup until conditions are right, such as your reef becoming more oligotrophic.

I used mostly base rock for my BB, but did not cook the live rock I had.

 

[hurleycr]

anyone ever try "sculpting" their rock with a chop saw.

I have a couple of rocks that are so round and huge they are hard to do anything with. Could I use a chop saw to make flat slabs? people use them to cut concrete blocks so I figure I should be able to use a saw with a masonary blade on it to cut it. Anythoughts....

Just an update, the two vortechs have been ordered and are awaiting their new home. I am complete with the canopy and lighting upgrades, which went from two 250's and 2 VHO in a crappy reflector, to two 250's 10k XM's in lumenarc III mini's, and four VHO's. I am just about done with the stand, I will be ordering the starboard and acrylic rods this week to make a raised surface to keep the rock off the bottom. I have decided to cook the majority of the rock while leaving some for the fish to hide around during the transfer and cooking process. I have been swamped with work I had planned on being done with all this by now.

I will start posting pictures of my progress shortly.

Can use plain black paint to paint the back of the tank? or do I need something special?

 

[King-Kong]

I think plain paint is fine.

As for saw -- good question.. standard masonry bits do wonders on live rock, so I assume a fitted saw would also be fine.

Please post pics and thoughts on how you are gonna make your raised rock rods... (I am going to replace my faux-sand bare-bottom with either a normal cutting board, or nothing at all, so im curious to see what you do off the bat).

 

[ralphie16]

Here is my bare bottom 125 that has been set up for more then a year. i have never had to use a glass cleaner to clean algae off the glass and i do not use macroalgae, (i must have very low nutrients and this combined with the high flow does not allow algae to grow) and i feed my puffers, butterfly and moorish idol about 8 times a day!

I have 4 hi flow maxi jet mods (~2000gph each, and 2 tunze 6060 (~1200gph each) to keep the crap in the water column until taken away to my skimmer. (plus the fish LOVE the flow) i have only seven rocks touching the glass and only the very tip of them so prolly less then 5 square inches. this allows the high flow to sweep everything away. i did not cook the rocks but had to siphone detritus for a few months. now nothing at all. everything is supported by pvc, which i feel is a must for en effective barebottom.

I am setting up my large tank now and will post pics in a few days (or weeks!) once aquascaping is done (barebottom as well)

 

[hurleycr]

kong,

until I get a pict. up for the starboard.

I plan on using 3/4" board and using 3/4"cell cast rods. What I will do is use a hole saw in the board and then cut the rods so that about 1/2" will be exposed so a length of 1.25 total length. and beat them into the board. then gut groves into the top of the rods so they will bite into the rock preventing them from slipping around. Then seal with silicone to prevent anything getting between the rod and board.

I will only put them where I plan on having rock, I only want a little exposure so that when viewing it won't be easy to notice them. Hopefully with them being clear will help as well.

I saw it installed on a tank somewhere on RC but can't find that thread any longer. So Its not my idea orginally, so I don't want to still credit. Wish I knew who it was so that I could give proper credit for it.

 

[hurleycr]

ralphie,

thats some good aquascaping. how keep the rocks to stay that close together where you have the pillars and archs?

got to get some coral in there my man, that tank looks to good not to.