Stopped Dosing Kalk...

[tmz]

Graves,
Fyi NO3 wouldn't directly effect alkalinity. Now the ammonia reduction that get's you to nitrate does to some extent , since H+ is released: NH3/4 (ammonia) to NO2 (nitrate ) to NO3. So theNO3 level wouldn't tell you much about alkalinity depletion .CO2 does affect ph and alkalinity since some of it forms carbonic acid H2CO3 (H2O + CO2 = H2CO3)in water.The extra H+ not only lowers ph it increases the proportion of bicarbonate(HCO3) to carbonate(CO3) . Since CO3 has room for 2 H protons and HCO3 has room for only one before becoming carbonic acid , the net effect of the extra H is reduced carbonate alkalinity and buffering capacity.

kalk( calcium hydroxide) Ca(OH)2 reverses the effects of excess CO2. The Ca
( calcium) disassociates from the oxide. The oxide (O) joins with CO2 to form CO3 some of which will speciate to HCO3( bicarbonate) . The proportion of CO3 to HCO3 is dependent on the ph ( the relative amount of H protons ) in the water.What a dance.

 

[Gravesj1s]

Brandon, reread your post ,perhaps the maxi jet was too powerful and stirrred the bottom when dosing or dosed too much at one time. A peristaltic pump drawing from still reservoir with the intake tube about 2 inches off the bottom works very well without turbulence as does a gravity fed drip set up.

Oneradtec,

I have a peristalic pump like tmz described that I have no use for.If you want it its yours, free.I live with -in 2-3 blocks of community hos.It just needs new tubing.butalso, has a built in timer on the unit.

 

[Gravesj1s]

Graves,
Fyi NO3 wouldn't directly effect alkalinity. Now the ammonia reduction that get's you to nitrate does to some extent , since H+ is released: NH3/4 (ammonia) to NO2 (nitrate ) to NO3. So theNO3 level wouldn't tell you much about alkalinity depletion .CO2 does affect ph and alkalinity since some of it forms carbonic acid H2CO3 (H2O + CO2 = H2CO3)in water.The extra H+ not only lowers ph it increases the proportion of bicarbonate(HCO3) to carbonate(CO3) . Since CO3 has room for 2 H protons and HCO3 has room for only one before becoming carbonic acid , the net effect of the extra H is reduced carbonate alkalinity and buffering capacity.

kalk( calcium hydroxide) Ca(OH)2 reverses the effects of excess CO2. The Ca
( calcium) disassociates from the oxide. The oxide (O) joins with CO2 to form CO3 some of which will speciate to HCO3( bicarbonate) . The proportion of CO3 to HCO3 is dependent on the ph ( the relative amount of H protons ) in the water.What a dance.

Tmz, I wasn't refering to N03 directly. Indirectly though.I.e-Nitric acid is also a byproduct of the nitrogen cycle .So ,I think it could be argued a tank having a high Nitrate level would have more of an issue with alk swings.
It is pretty irrevelant though in that I haven't had a no3 reading above 10ppm.Currently last I checked it was close to 0.
I have gone a bit farther in this thread than I should have.I just need a week to see if it is something I was doing wrong or weather its just not practical for me to use.
Im only taking half the blame for the hijack this time.

 

[tmz]

Ok I'll take half the blame. Hope the nitric acid doesn't blow up the tank. Time to get back on point.

 

[Gravesj1s]

Not really sure how to take your response,so,pm me if you want the reference.Probably best to just leave it at that.Moving on.

 

[tmz]

Take it only as I meant it an effort at humor and a reference to the volatile quality of nitric acid nothing more or less.
A discussion of nitric acid HNO3 vs carbonic acid H2CO3 is interesting but way off this post even for an old hand at hijacking like me but my curiositiy has the better of me. So with apologies to Brandon, I'll go down this road a a bit.

Suffice to say, I still think ,however, that levels of NO3 as( an oxidizer not a reducer in terms of redox) don't indicate a reduction in carbonate alkalinity.

NO3- is the conjugate base for nitric acid (HNO3), NO3- simply draws in an H proton. So it has no effect on akalinity when it forms nitric acid . On the other hand , bi carbonate HCO3- is the conjugate base for carbonic acid H2CO3 and has a direct effect on available bicarbonate.

I may be coming at this from the wrong angle and it might help if I saw the reference you offered to better understand your perspective.

 

[Gravesj1s]

Tmz,

This whole time I'm wondering why you weren't picking up on the higher nitrate being related to alk swings.Just seemed like it was put to the side at first.After reading your response this morning,It made much more sense.

So,looking for a reference I thought would be an easy find.Googling for a few hrs ,checking some of the chemisrty articles ,find nothing.Stumped,because I know I've seen this mentioned in books.So,breakout the books sure enough all over the place.Hard to believe in theils,John Tulloks book(chapter 5 pg.129 systems that accumulate Nitrate will experience problems with maitenance,ca alk &ph.
The Reef aquarium vol.1( pg 231)from it -the prinipal disadvantages to higher nitrate levels is the affect on alk and ph.....the accumulation of nitrate depletes the alkalinity in a closed system through the accompanying formation of nitric acid.And know of a seascope publication Tom Frankes wrote.Older aquarium magazines I've seen make mention.

I'm sure I could find others but its clear ,no reference behind any of them.I dont know if one really exists but it makes me wonder now where it originated.I never second guessed it.Didn't see any reason to until now.

Lastly,I sometimes miss it when you type out hypothetical equations,I did'nt quite follow you at first.or understand where you were going with it.Wasn't until reading your response this morning did I take a second look.Actually reread the whole thread again.Alittle embarrasing but I'll take my medicine in that regard.:beer: