stray voltage help needed asap

[jfl14609]

Was feeding the fish tonight and got a little zap. I unplugged everything and have been checking vac with my multimeter. For some reason everything I plug in somehow puts voltage into the tank is this normal just at small amount my heater is doing about 9 vac alone and my powerhead is about 3. I did catch my seio and took it out around 38. for a ground I am using a wire wrapped around a screw driver to get my meter readings my house is really old so I don’t trust the grounds in the outlets. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Jeff

 

[PCIALF]

First of all GFI!!!

Do you have one if not install one ASAP for your safety. You can even go to Home Depot and buy one built into a cord and you will be safer.

2nd no stray voltage should be felt in your tank

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

it's normal for electrical devices in and around an aquarium to put small amounts of voltage into an aquarium but you shouldn't feel any zap!
Get a ground fault interrupt before you get hurt trying to find out what's wrong.
Start with the heater(s) and powerhead(s). Look for exposed wire as well as possible malfunctioning equipment.

 

[m-fine]

I would re-ground the outlet while putting in the GFCI. Sounds like you could have an issue with the house wiring.

 

[75galreef]

I had a very similar experience in my 80+ yr old house. When I pulled the outlet I found the house to be 2 wire instead of 3 wires. So I ran a whole new strand of 3/12 to my fuse box and wired in a couple new outlets. No problems since. None of my outlets were properly grounded.

 

[jfl14609]

Currently I have a gfi in line. I kind of figured home wireing was sub par but to be honest I never got a reading till yesterday but it had been a while since I took one. I am thinking about building a power station that will be 11 outlets first is a gfi then the other will be 10 switched outlets for better control my next question is. I am right near an outside wall that I already have a time Warner line going out that’s dead I need to remove. would it work if I were to take a piece of copper pipe pound it in the ground outside then just connect the grounds together in the power station then run it outside to the pipe. It sounds perfect to me but hey I do sprinklers not electric. Thanks for all the suggestions

 

[SkiFletch]

You have to be careful with electrics, especially when stray voltages are encountered. Please remember that a GFI can do as much harm to your tank as it can do to you... Sounds crazy since everyone reccomends using them huh? Lets see if I can explain.

Your tank is wired through a power strip with a GFI. You leave for work at 8am and just after you leave your tank develops a voltage leak in one of your pieces of equipment (in your case, sounds like the Seio). The GFI senses the ground fault, and trips to "protect". Then what happens? Your tank is without power until you come home later that evening. Lets say you couldnt come straight home from work and you didnt actually see the tank till 8pm. 12 hours without power because of a minor voltage leak and I'd be amazed if things were still alive in there...

Ok back to your current situation jfl. Sounds like the seio has a minor voltage leak or even ground fault in it. I'd remove the component as quickly as possible and replace it. Voltage leaks don't get better, they only get worse.

 

[chrisguy]

Mike you bring up a Great point. I recently had an issue with a cheap pump that took out all power to the system. Luckily I was home and in the fish room when it happened.

For my next setup I will have multiple GFI outlets and divide up some of the key components of the system. Minimally keeping the closed loop, lighting, heaters and return pump all on separate GFI's. It's kind of like Dr Sanjay's talk at the Zoo event. Minimize the potential for a single point of failure.

 

[SkiFletch]

Exactly Chris. While a GFI is a great concept, as is so often the case in this hobby, its implimentation is complicated

 

[jfl14609]

so would you say that my power sorce is ok without the gfi? I am assuming the ground idea would work as well right?

 

[m-fine]

No. The GFI will trip the breaker if there is any current leakage. This could be bad if everything is on one circuit and a little stray voltage causes the pumps heat and everything else to go off and your fish die. On the other hand, without the GFI the one who could die is you or anyone else who sticks their hand in the tank. You could have a lot of stray voltage and the fish will look fine, but when you touch it and provide a new path to ground...ZAP!

First priority should be to protect yourself by getting a GFI breaker. The next step is to protect the fish and have multiples and split things up so any one can trip and the tank will survive until you come home and reset it. The second step is far more optional than the first.

 

[parkavenuereef]

OK well I have been zapped by direct 120 in my tank, its horrible. Yes GFCI is #1, 2nd, i have had the same issue, and it is normal for some to stray voltage but not that much such as 38VAC from SEIO. What i did was I added a stainless Steel grounding Rod to my sump and grounded it to the water pipe in my home and eliminated all VAC in the tank. No problems ever since.

 

[jfl14609]

yeah I am hoping hooking the ground outside will take care of it looks like I will have a long weekend

 

[m-fine]

I was at Home Depot today and GFCI outlets were $29 for a 3 pack or $11 each. It takes a screw driver and about 5 minutes to replace an existing outlet so do yourself a HUGE favor and just do it.

 

[jfl14609]

the money isnt the issue the issue is the wiring in my houes is very old there is no ground wire not to mention the 140 gallons of water in the tank right in front of it. I am making a custom power center that will solve all of the problems

 

[75galreef]

You will need to also run a new 3 wire line from the breaker box to your new power center or you will still have grounding issues.

 

[jfl14609]

thats not an option thats why I am going to run a dround directly outside and put a new grounding rod for it

 

[redrider911]

When I updated my service, the electrician pounded in a ground rod that was either 6 or 8 feet long (cant remember). With the ground being so dry, I'm sure it will be tough!

 

[puter]

Jeff, I'm not an electrician (though I've done a bit of wiring) and my recollection is that to meet code you have to be concerned about differences in potential if you have separate grounds.

This doesn't seem like an area you want to be wrong about. If you're not sure of what's required you can post a note at:

http://forum.doityourself.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

and likely get some input from some people that know. This is one area where I'd hate to learn from your mistake.

Mark

 

[jfl14609]

thanks for the link mark I will post on there right now. unfortunately I live in a rental property so upgrading the outlet is not an option so I was looking for alternatives and this was the only one I could come up with