Sudden Death of my fish.. Please help.. this is completely out of the ordinary!!!

[lukinrats]

:worried:I need some help in maybe figuring out what happened to my fish... I am going to start from the beginning and see if I cant detail everything that I have done recently... BTW, I checked my water first off, after I found the fish dead... Here are my findings
SG= 1.026
Temp= 81
Ph=8.1
Dkh= 9.5
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5-10
PO4=0-.25
Ca=500

I think that is it... Ok, this is an established 90 gallon tank, and all but 1 of the fish were 4 years old... The other one was a Blue Hippo Tang that was about 2 months old to me... I kept the Tang in QT for 4 weeks, and fed it/made sure it had no disease... It had been in my display for the past 3 weeks or so, and NO it did not have ICK or anything else... Her color was great, and she was fat and healthy/ loved to eat... Now, I have been trying to start back on building my reef after the hurricane killed it a couple of years ago... I had done everything I felt necessary before I added any corals, etc... Over the past 1.5 weeks I have been adding corals, and 1 anemone... I also added a clown gobe, and a lawnmower blenny... The 2 fish that are still alive, and looking just fine are the Blenny, Goby, and 2 Clownfish (suspicious):hmm1:
Now I am going to give a list of my many purchases over the last 2 weeks to see if anything sticks out

1 hairy shroom, 1 bubble coral, 1 Green Goni, assorted zoos, and assorted Ricordia (many of both), 1 blastomussa, 1 candy cane, a couple of diff. shrooms... Ok, I think that covers new fish, and Corals... Now I also have added about 10-15 lbs of live rock (pukani), and also a saddle carpet anemone... Some people told me to watch the Anemone because it would eat fish and shrimp, so I have been, and have not seen it eat anything, but I am still suspicious, and I will tell you why

Yesterday, I went home @ lunch w/ a couple of new corals (hairy shroom, and anthilia, which I think I forgot to mention above)... When I got there, my 4 new Koralia powerheads were at the door:fun4:... I picked up the powerheads, and decided I would install them, while I acclimated the corals... So for about an hour to 1.5, I was in the display putting in power heads... In the middle of all this, I stopped to check on all my fish, and to feed them... I had already installed the Koralia #4 behind my rockwork to keep that zone circulated, and when I looked in behind there to see how it was blowing, I noticed all of my fish were back there enjoying the flow, including the Tang... So then I mixed up some Julian sprung mixed Algae flakes, and some coral frenzy, and some brine shrimp to feed... I put all of this in the tank, and watched ALL of the fish eat... The Tang was attacking the food as always, and looked great... So i finished putting in the powerheads, and the corals, and went back to work... When I left, I noticed that a good bit of the food had landed in, and was stuck to the Anemone... When I came home, I had stopped at the LFS, and picked up a nice frag of yellowish Ricordia, so I started acclimating it... I took a moment to look over everything, and noticed that a few of the fish were in one end of the tank, kind of acting funny... Funny because usually when I am standing in front of the tank, they are trying to get me to put some food in... I just figured that they may have had a day like mine, and were resting... Since they were all normal just a few hours before, I did not worry... When I was going to bed, I looked in again, and noticed the same thing except the tang was in her bed, like always @ midnight, and just figured she was sleeping... I got up this morning, and she was DEAD... the PJ cardinal, and Yellow tail damsel were also not looking too chipper... I went home for lunch again today, and found the PJ and the damsel both laying in the same spot :eek1EAD.

I am a little bit worried here:worried2:... I mean, I take care of everyone in there, and a couple of those fish were like parts of the family, we had them so long... there was absolutely no reason for them to die, as I inspected them when I pulled them out for any sign of disease... I did not figure it was disease anyway since they literally died in a few hours of being just fine.

I figure that there is a few reasons that could have caused this, and need some help maybe with something that I have not thought of

#1... I have added a lot lately, but none of it IMO should have caused fish to die, unless it was the Anemone
#2... maybe one of the Ric frags was still releasing some toxin when I put it in
#3... THIS IS THE ONE THAT I AM SUSPICIOUS OF..The Anemone killed the fish... HERE IS WHY
A... People told me that it was dangerous, just maybe not to what extent
B... My clowns are both still alive
C... The fish probably wanted to get some of that food that was stuck to the Anemone, and ended up getting stung or something
D... Because I cant think of one other single thing that would have absolutely instantly killed 3 fish, and maybe more when I get home (fingers crossed, I hope not)

#4... I cant imagine why this one would apply, but thought I would throw it in... I did install those 4 new powerheads yesterday right before they died, and in the process was moving rocks around, and just basically causing a small ruckuss in that tank... Which I have done many times before with no ill effects

I hope we can figure this one out, this really upsets the hell out of me, and I may not sleep again tonight:sad1:

 

[surfjeepzx]

I'll take a shot,

You got the new pumps and didn't give them a good rinse, soak, cleaning. You installed them right out of the box and they contained some type of coating (chemical) that was lethal to the more fragile fish.

OR

You didn't clean your hands and arms prior to diving in the tank and introduced some type of toxin into the tank that was on your skin. Might it have something to do with your:
Occupation: oilfield

Your corals and anem are not the problem.

 

[Reefugee]

Exactly what I was thinking.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10180726#post10180726 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfjeepzx
I'll take a shot,

You got the new pumps and didn't give them a good rinse, soak, cleaning. You installed them right out of the box and they contained some type of coating (chemical) that was lethal to the more fragile fish.

OR

You didn't clean your hands and arms prior to diving in the tank and introduced some type of toxin into the tank that was on your skin. Might it have something to do with your:
Occupation: oilfield

Your corals and anem are not the problem.

 

[lukinrats]

I rinsed them off, but I may not have done that good of a job since you guys thought of it right off the bat that way... I always wash my hands well when I get home, because of my 1 year old... To be honest with you, my hands very seldom get dirty even though I work in the Oilpatch... I am a manager, so there are others who do the dirty work... If the pumps having toxins on them is the case then is there something I can do about it now... My two clowns are still alive, but acting a little funny... Also would I need to go ahead and pull them out now and wash them, even though they have already released most/all of the toxins... I just cant see how the PJ, and Damsel could have died from that... They have always been so tough, and they made it through some rough stuff
Thanks for the help so far, I am going right now to do a water change right now
Any other suggestions?

 

[spleen93]

Water change and carbon, for sure. Even though I was one of those that warned you about the anemone, probably not the culprit in this case -- usually they eat whatever they sting.

Spleen

 

[Icefire]

hard to say

 

[melev]

Check your tank for stray electricity, in case the pumps are faulty. They have had some sent back for replacement, and perhaps the fish deaths were caused by that.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

SG= 1.026
Temp= 81
Ph=8.1
Dkh= 9.5
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=5-10
PO4=0-.25
Ca=500

Well, it wasn't parameter based with those readings.

I think that is it... Ok, this is an established 90 gallon tank, and all but 1 of the fish were 4 years old... The other one was a Blue Hippo Tang that was about 2 months old to me... I kept the Tang in QT for 4 weeks, and fed it/made sure it had no disease... It had been in my display for the past 3 weeks or so, and NO it did not have ICK or anything else... Her color was great, and she was fat and healthy/ loved to eat... Now, I have been trying to start back on building my reef after the hurricane killed it a couple of years ago...

This doesn't mean that it didn't have ick. It just didn't show any outward signs of it. Cryptocaryon irritans can come in on just about everything depending on the life cycle of the parasite. It can come in on the rocks that frags are on, in the water in the bag, etc, etc, etc. But, I doubt that all your fish would die over night with Ich. You would at least notice one with outward symptoms. On the other hand, it could be any sort of unseen parasite like gill flukes or internal parasites. You can never rule out a biological problem when it comes to unexplained fish deaths.

I had done everything I felt necessary before I added any corals, etc... Over the past 1.5 weeks I have been adding corals, and 1 anemone... I also added a clown gobe, and a lawnmower blenny... The 2 fish that are still alive, and looking just fine are the Blenny, Goby, and 2 Clownfish (suspicious)
Now I am going to give a list of my many purchases over the last 2 weeks to see if anything sticks out

Sounds good so far.....under the circumstances.

1 hairy shroom, 1 bubble coral, 1 Green Goni, assorted zoos, and assorted Ricordia (many of both), 1 blastomussa, 1 candy cane, a couple of diff. shrooms... Ok, I think that covers new fish, and Corals...

Nothing there that would give you any trouble.

Now I also have added about 10-15 lbs of live rock (pukani),

This could have all sorts of biological variants on the equation coming in on the rock. It could be crabs, mantis shrimp, or even bacteria or parasites.

and also a saddle carpet anemone... Some people told me to watch the Anemone because it would eat fish and shrimp, so I have been, and have not seen it eat anything, but I am still suspicious, and I will tell you why

It has the possibility of doing this. Occassionally fish will accidently swim into them at night and get hurt, but they rarely die. I doubt this is the cause of the disaster.

Yesterday, I went home @ lunch w/ a couple of new corals (hairy shroom, and anthilia, which I think I forgot to mention above)... When I got there, my 4 new Koralia powerheads were at the door... I picked up the powerheads, and decided I would install them, while I acclimated the corals... So for about an hour to 1.5, I was in the display putting in power heads... In the middle of all this, I stopped to check on all my fish, and to feed them... I had already installed the Koralia #4 behind my rockwork to keep that zone circulated, and when I looked in behind there to see how it was blowing, I noticed all of my fish were back there enjoying the flow, including the Tang... So then I mixed up some Julian sprung mixed Algae flakes, and some coral frenzy, and some brine shrimp to feed... I put all of this in the tank, and watched ALL of the fish eat... The Tang was attacking the food as always, and looked great... So i finished putting in the powerheads, and the corals, and went back to work... When I left, I noticed that a good bit of the food had landed in, and was stuck to the Anemone... When I came home, I had stopped at the LFS, and picked up a nice frag of yellowish Ricordia, so I started acclimating it... I took a moment to look over everything, and noticed that a few of the fish were in one end of the tank, kind of acting funny... Funny because usually when I am standing in front of the tank, they are trying to get me to put some food in... I just figured that they may have had a day like mine, and were resting... Since they were all normal just a few hours before, I did not worry... When I was going to bed, I looked in again, and noticed the same thing except the tang was in her bed, like always @ midnight, and just figured she was sleeping... I got up this morning, and she was :eekEAD... the PJ cardinal, and Yellow tail damsel were also not looking too chipper... I went home for lunch again today, and found the PJ and the damsel both laying in the same spot :eek1EAD.

This could have many factors in it. You could have had chemicals on your hands, you could have a power leak in the tank, you could have kicked up crud in dead spots in the tank, you could have blown sand around and released Hydrogen Sulfide, and the list goes on. It would be hard to pinpoint this problem.

I am a little bit worried here... I mean, I take care of everyone in there, and a couple of those fish were like parts of the family, we had them so long... there was absolutely no reason for them to die, as I inspected them when I pulled them out for any sign of disease... I did not figure it was disease anyway since they literally died in a few hours of being just fine.

It could be disease, but doubtful.

#1... I have added a lot lately, but none of it IMO should have caused fish to die, unless it was the Anemone

Doubtful. Your water parameters don't indicate a noticable spike in the Nitrogen Cycle.

#2... maybe one of the Ric frags was still releasing some toxin when I put it in

Rics don't release any more toxins than other corals. Highly unprobable.

#3... THIS IS THE ONE THAT I AM SUSPICIOUS OF..The Anemone killed the fish... HERE IS WHY

I doubt it. You would have noticed the fish were dazed, and if they got stung, the anemone would have most likely ate them.

A... People told me that it was dangerous, just maybe not to what extent
B... My clowns are both still alive
C... The fish probably wanted to get some of that food that was stuck to the Anemone, and ended up getting stung or something
D... Because I cant think of one other single thing that would have absolutely instantly killed 3 fish, and maybe more when I get home (fingers crossed, I hope not)

A) They aren't dangerous in the way you're thinking
B) That doesn't mean anything. I've seen anemones eat their hosts
C) The fish would have been dazed, and any living fish would have black marks on them from the stings. I doubt this would be it.
D) I can

#4... I cant imagine why this one would apply, but thought I would throw it in... I did install those 4 new powerheads yesterday right before they died, and in the process was moving rocks around, and just basically causing a small ruckuss in that tank... Which I have done many times before with no ill effects

It very well could have. You said your tank has been set up a long time. The higher flow and newly exposed areas could have kicked up something nasty.

I hope we can figure this one out, this really upsets the hell out of me, and I may not sleep again tonight

I'll do what I can. I would check for stray voltage, chemicals, water flow and sand movement, dead spots, and ask people that live in the home what chemicals they used, where they cleaned, etc. It could have been something airborne. Also, check your oxygen levels.

 

[lukinrats]

Thanks guys for the replies... How do I check for voltage?... Also what chemicals do I need to check for, and how?... I do believe that there was a small amount of the substrate behind my rock work that was stirred up... It was really not very deep, or much of it though... That pump is the Koralia #4... The rest are Koralia #1's and they do not stir anything up at all... I will do whatever I need to... I changed a large amount of water last night, probably about 20-25 gallons in a 90 gallon display... W/ all the rock in there, I am going to say that the volume is really closer to 60-70 gallons... so maybe 25% change... I am going to check things out again when I go home for lunch, and would like to know how to check for some of the problems mentioned

Thanks,

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

You can check for voltage with a volt meter. As far as chemicals go, there really isn't anything you can do. Your best bet is water changes and double check your equipment and test kits for faultiness. It would be horrible to have a broken thermometer and a heater that is stuck in the on position. It sounds absurd, but it can and does happen.

 

[lukinrats]

I would think it is either the stray voltage (3 fish are still living in it tho), or like someone else said, I did not clean the power heads well enough... I will let you know

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I don't know about the cleaning of the pumps. While it is possible, and probably the best thing to do is washing the pumps off before use, I doubt that it was the problem. There are thousands of people out there that plug up various pump, Korallias included, right out of the box without problems (chemically).

 

[lukinrats]

So you would tend to lean toward the substrate causing this?

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Uh oh.... I just realized something....

Yesterday, I went home @ lunch w/ a couple of new corals (hairy shroom, and anthilia, which I think I forgot to mention above)... When I got there, my 4 new Koralia powerheads were at the door... I picked up the powerheads, and decided I would install them, while I acclimated the corals... So for about an hour to 1.5, I was in the display putting in power heads...

... and you have "oilfield" listed as your occupation. What do you do in the "oilfield" and what chemicals have you been in contact with that day?

I would run some fresh activated carbon while you're keeping up with water changes.

 

[pledosophy]

There had to be some outside influence outside of a typical biologoical problem (suc as disease or parasite) to cause multiple deaths overnight. It is just to much of a coincidence.

Seems like only your hardiest fo fish survived, that says something.

Are you using grounded surge protectors?

I am going a chemicla being introduced because IME stray voltage strong enough to kill 3 fish overnight would have been felt when you put your hand in. I've had a ballast go bad and shocked the hell out of my arm, and the fish were still alive.

I would do a water change and run carbon.

Not that it mattered in this case but slow down on ow fast your adding stuff. Give the tank time to even itself out and adjust, it will make your life way easier in the long run, although IMO nothing that happened here ahd anything to do with your stocking.

HTH

 

[lukinrats]

My thoughts exactly, but those fish were fine until I put the powerheads in there... The Pj and damsel were very hardy... as I stated before... I have had them a while, and they have lived through some really rough stuff... I had a heater bust with my arm in the tank when I first set it up... I shocked the hell out me, and entered through my wrist then came out up by my elbow... I had two holes in my arm from this, and A big bruise where the electricity ran from entrance to exit... Both fish made it throught that, as did all of them... They made it through 25 days of no power after katrina, with no filtration, and no heat, etc... Really wierd

 

[lukinrats]

Just an update for any of you who are concerned... While I am no closer to figuring out what cause all of this, I am happy to report that I think everything is going to be OK:mixed:

I did the large water change last night... I was up until 3 working on the tank... I went to bed, got up and went to work... I came home, and my clowns were still hiding, but the blenny was out and about... I just waited, and kept my hands and everything else out of the tank... Just a while ago, both clowns came out, and started pacing in the front of the tank, so I put some food in there, and they ate it up

I think all of this is a good sign, and hopefully whatever it was, happened to be a freak occurence... I have had this particular aquarium, and the fish for at least 3 years now, and nothing like this has ever happened, so maybe it will not happen again

The large water change leads me to beleive that it had to be something biological, or chemical... I guess I will never know, but thanks for all the replies

Later,

 

[Anemonebuff]

Could have been a mix between the toxin on the pumps and the toxins on your hand. If it were the anemone, it would have consumed them and there would be no carcases.

Good luck.

 

[spleen93]

Glad to hear that things are getting back to normal.

Spleen