Sump in Basement

[RayAllen3422]

Ok there is the problem... Move the heaters out of the fuge and put them in the return side. You will want them in the skimmer side. The pic i sent you of my set up I have them in the baffle to the return pump.

I tried this once and it didn't change anything. I have tried the heater in the left sump chamber, the right sump chamber, and the display tank. The temperature was unaffected by each one.

 

[Mrramsey]

The middle is the return. The left and right both have overflows. You mean they should go into the middle return?

If you have room in the pump chamber that's fine. The majority of the flow of your system is through the skimmer side and into the return. A fuge is a low flow area and is therefore not getting enough warm water back into the main stream flow.

 

[Mrramsey]

Ideally you should be feeding the fuge from the return pump and not a drain. You will just collect garbage in the fuge the way you have it. All of your drains should be on the skimmer side.

 

[RayAllen3422]

Ideally you should be feeding the fuge from the return pump and not a drain. You will just collect garbage in the fuge the way you have it. All of your drains should be on the skimmer side.

Back to the drawing board I guess. I'm pretty much ready to give up.

 

[Mrramsey]

Back to the drawing board I guess. I'm pretty much ready to give up.

Nah don't do that. Easy fix. A fuge needs very little flow. Eliminate the valve and tee on that drain and just reconnect it to the tank drain. Then just add a tee and a valve off of the return to the fuge.

Also those finnex titanium tubes are short and narrow. If your glass baffles to the return are a good inch wide they will slide right in there.

 

[morpheas]

I agree with what Mrramsey said you need to place the heater in a high flow area so the heat convection is maximized. What I would do in your shoes though, just for the heck of it, would be to move my heater in the display for a couple of days and see if that solves the problem. If it does, then you know it's a flow/placement problem and not a heater problem. Where do you measure your temperature at? The display?

 

[Mrramsey]

Here is my sump. It is essentially the same layout but you will see mu drains are all om the skimmer side and my fuge is fed by the return. The heaters are between the bafffles.

Also the heater you have has a thermostat on it but you are controlling the heater with an apex while dooable the heater has its own thermostat and may be shutting off prior to the apex shutting off because the temp in the low flow area is at temp, if that makes sense.

 

[RayAllen3422]

I agree with what Mrramsey said you need to place the heater in a high flow area so the heat convection is maximized. What I would do in your shoes though, just for the heck of it, would be to move my heater in the display for a couple of days and see if that solves the problem. If it does, then you know it's a flow/placement problem and not a heater problem. Where do you measure your temperature at? The display?

I did this already. It didn't change the temperature. I am measuring the temperature in the return chamber with my apex temperature probe and in the DT with a floating thermometer. They both say the same temperature.

 

[RayAllen3422]

Here is my sump. It is essentially the same layout but you will see mu drains are all om the skimmer side and my fuge is fed by the return. The heaters are between the bafffles.



Also the heater you have has a thermostat on it but you are controlling the heater with an apex while dooable the heater has its own thermostat and may be shutting off prior to the apex shutting off because the temp in the low flow area is at temp, if that makes sense.

Im actually not controlling the heater using the Apex yet. It is just plugged in to a regular outlet and turned all the way up. I did this when the tank wasn't heating and was trying to minimize the variables.

 

[RayAllen3422]

I just order two new Finnex heaters to try. I need some backups anyways. I'm starting to think while I have other issues the Eheims I have may just be duds.

 

[morpheas]

I just order two new Finnex heaters to try. I need some backups anyways. I'm starting to think while I have other issues the Eheims I have may just be duds.

Well the good thing with the Finnex heaters is that they have the temperature readout locally so you will be able to troubleshoot easier. Also, I am not sure if it was asked before but what size tank and what wattage heaters?

 

[RayAllen3422]

Well the good thing with the Finnex heaters is that they have the temperature readout locally so you will be able to troubleshoot easier. Also, I am not sure if it was asked before but what size tank and what wattage heaters?

125 gallon DT, 75 gallon sump, 2 - 300 watt heaters.

 

[morpheas]

So what is the delta T you're trying to achieve and what are you achieving? In other words, you want to go from say 68°F to 77°F and you're reaching what?

 

[RayAllen3422]

So what is the delta T you're trying to achieve and what are you achieving? In other words, you want to go from say 68°F to 77°F and you're reaching what?

65 to 78 and I'm getting to 73 with the heater on 91. I had two but one doesn't work at all and I am going through the warranty process.

 

[morpheas]

I don't think that with 300 watts you would get 13° delta on a 200 gallon volume (let's say true water is 150-170). Plus, from what I understand you have long plumbing going from the basement to the floor the tank is in so there is heat loss there too. My opinion is that you definitely need more wattage and I am not sure 600 watts will be enough either but you can try. Also keep in mind that having your heater constantly on (trying to catch up) is probably chewing down it's life...

 

[RayAllen3422]

Nah don't do that. Easy fix. A fuge needs very little flow. Eliminate the valve and tee on that drain and just reconnect it to the tank drain. Then just add a tee and a valve off of the return to the fuge.

Also those finnex titanium tubes are short and narrow. If your glass baffles to the return are a good inch wide they will slide right in there.

Going to try to fix the plumbing like this tonight. If you see anything else that looks wrong let me know so I can take care of it then.

 

[RayAllen3422]

I don't think that with 300 watts you would get 13° delta on a 200 gallon volume (let's say true water is 150-170). Plus, from what I understand you have long plumbing going from the basement to the floor the tank is in so there is heat loss there too. My opinion is that you definitely need more wattage and I am not sure 600 watts will be enough either but you can try. Also keep in mind that having your heater constantly on (trying to catch up) is probably chewing down it's life...

True water is maybe 120 based on what it took to fill it up. The plumbing is just going through a wall to an unfinished room. It isn't going through floors. I used 2 x 250 watt heaters in my previous set up and had no issues.

 

[ca1ore]

The eheim heaters are good quality units, but they do fail. Dual 300s are more than enough, but only one probably is not. Where you put them in the sump is immaterial as long as they have reasonable flow and cannot become emersed. I run 900 watts on my system volume of 400 gallons (maintaining 10 degrees above ambient) and it's fine. Lose one, however, and the remaining two struggle to keep up.

 

[RayAllen3422]

Update: Eheim sent me an email to re-calibrate the heaters to factory settings and try again so I have some instructions on what I need to do tonight. We will see if that fixes the issue.

 

[davehead86]

I hated my Eheim. The thing was SUPER long and was incorrectly heating like yours is. I sent it back to amazon and got a cheap-o aqueon heater hooked to a Reefkeeper to prevent a fish boil. Best investment, cheap heater on a controller.