Sump made wrong from lfs. Can I fix it?

[Sk8r]

I have to ask---what were they thinking?

You could just get some acrylic (flexes better than glass) and glue it to one and the other of those too-short walls, which is the quick fix. But quel pain! If you've got an option to get your money back, I'd go for that.

 

[Bulldog39]

True can I just use a strip of egg crate on top of the last baffle when done to keep the chaeto from going in the return area?

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[Bulldog39]

Its like deja vu...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2657182

Please state the name of the place you got that idiotic work done at so we can shame them on facebook, and so that locals know to avoid them.. What a joke.. Even worse that you actually paid for that and didn't raise hell..

But if you really want to work with what you have then maybe try this..
Remove second from the left and stack it on top of the first from the left.. Silicone at the joint to make it one taller baffle..

Take second from the right and stack on top of 3rd from the right and silicone like the other I just spoke of..
Then remove first from the right..
that will just give you 2 baffles..
First is an "underflow" path and the last is an "over" path..

Thanks mcgyvr good idea will work on that and post finished results in a few days. About how tall of baffles do you think I would need for the refugium area? Tank is like 16" tall so will have plenty of room lol from what they left me

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[d0ughb0y]

removing the glass baffle is easy, if that is what you are worried about.

use a piece of fishing line and "saw" through the existing silicone. its like cutting butter with a hot knife. Then just clean off the remaining silicone with a sharp knife.

 

[Bulldog39]

Yeah will go by lowes and get some silicone and egg crate after done getting my windshield replaced

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[Shamous113]

I would advise against using acrylic in a glass sump. The quote below is from RocketEngineer on reef central found in this thread,

"ACRYLITE FF sheet also absorbs water when exposed to high relative humidities resulting in an expansion of the sheet. At relative humidities of 100%, 80% and 60%, the dimensional changes are 0.3%, 0.2% and 0.1 % respectively."

So, think about that for a moment. The vendor of the material claims a 0.3% expansion of the sheet at 100% relative humidity (a.k.a. immersion). That means for a baffle 10" long, that sheet will expand 0.030" Or ~1/32".

Now, lets figure out what kind of force that would cause:

Y=(F*L)/(A*DeltaL) where:
Y=Young's Modulus (400,000psi for acrylic)
F=Force (lbs)
L= Length (baffle length = 10")
A = Area (Assume 10"X 0.25")
DeltaL = Change in length (0.030")

Rework the equation:

F = (Y*A*DeltaL)/L = 3000#s

That's right. 1.5 TONS of force are pushing on the inside surface of that pane of glass due to expansion of the acrylic.......... And its right in the middle of the glass along a very narrow region.

The moral of the story is don't mix materials when the ends are constrained."

 

[JTL]

True can I just use a strip of egg crate on top of the last baffle when done to keep the chaeto from going in the return area?

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Yes, the holes are a little large but certainly better than nothing.

 

[Sk8r]

An over-under pair of baffles will stop cheato and most fish from reaching the pump chamber. First one is overflow at water level, second one about 3/4 inch away (on the pump side) has a half-inch gap under it.

 

[mcgyvr]

I would advise against using acrylic in a glass sump.

I FULLY agree..

 

[James404]

I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh when I saw the baffle sizes in relation to the tank height! I mean really, who at that LFS looked at that and said, yep that's good?

 

[d0ughb0y]

if 1/32 is the total expansion, don't we normally leave like 1/16 to 1/8" gap on each side for a total of 4/32" to 8/32" room for expansion? I don't think anyone actually cuts the baffle to fit tightly against the walls of the sump. Anyway, OP is going to use existing glass.

 

[mcgyvr]

I mean really, who at that LFS looked at that and said, yep that's good?

An absolute moron.. If I didn't know it was just Halloween I would have thought this was April Fools day..

 

[dt204]

You're asking how to fix it without starting over. And have made 2 threads asking for help. Starting over is the only real option if you want your sump to operate properly.
I think what mcgyver suggested will work, but it involves cutting out some baffles. If you are going to cut out baffles, you might as well cut them all out and do it right IMHO. Either way will involve some work.
Maybe get a new empty tank and start from scratch? Sell this one to someone willing to take the time to cut them out.
For what it's worth, siliconing in baffles is a relatively easy process. Good luck!

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[sde1500]

You're asking how to fix it without starting over. And have made 2 threads asking for help. Starting over is the only real option if you want your sump to operate properly.
I think what mcgyver suggested will work, but it involves cutting out some baffles. If you are going to cut out baffles, you might as well cut them all out and do it right IMHO. Either way will involve some work.
Maybe get a new empty tank and start from scratch? Sell this one to someone willing to take the time to cut them out.
For what it's worth, siliconing in baffles is a relatively easy process. Good luck!

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If siliconing is an easy process, why do you recommend he go so far as to get a whole new tank?? That is way overkill. Sure he'd have to work within the parameters of the glass height he has but it should work just fine.

 

[JTL]

An over-under pair of baffles will stop cheato and most fish from reaching the pump chamber. First one is overflow at water level, second one about 3/4 inch away (on the pump side) has a half-inch gap under it.

True, but if I understand mcqyvr correctly there will not be a "pair" only a divider. Easier to just have one panel of glass. Also ime you need and inch or so in between baffles to get into them for both putting in the silicone and cleaning.

 

[Shamous113]

if 1/32 is the total expansion, don't we normally leave like 1/16 to 1/8" gap on each side for a total of 4/32" to 8/32" room for expansion? I don't think anyone actually cuts the baffle to fit tightly against the walls of the sump.

That gap then gets filled with silicone, once cured the silicone will only compress so much at which point the the force is applied the sides of the aquarium. IMHO its not a matter of if it will fail but when will it fail.

 

[JTL]

That gap then gets filled with silicone, once cured the silicone will only compress so much at which point the the force is applied the sides of the aquarium. IMHO its not a matter of if it will fail but when will it fail.

It is done all of the time and I have never heard of the sides blowing out. Usually the gap that is filled with silicone is 1/16-1/8 on each side. You also have the bowing effect in the center of the piece. Personally, I like glass so I have never used acrylic. Also I think poly-carbonate absorbs less than acrylic, I know it is stronger.

 

[mcgyvr]

It is done all of the time and I have never heard of the sides blowing out. Usually the gap that is filled with silicone is 1/16-1/8 on each side. You also have the bowing effect in the center of the piece. Personally, I like glass so I have never used acrylic. Also I think poly-carbonate absorbs less than acrylic, I know it is stronger.

Oh.. it happens.. I've seen enough people post pictures on here saying "how did this happen?"..
And you will find that in every case they had the baffles cut way too tight and did not have enough silicone between the acrylic and the tanks glass..

The point that Shamous113 is making is totally valid and I will always recommend glass for glass and acrylic for acrylic for multiple reasons.. Its best to use glass with glass and there can be considerable force placed on the glass due to expansion..
But yes.. by ensuring you don't make the baffle too tight so that expansion forces are not in excess of what the glass can take then you can have a long lasting sump that won't crack when using acrylic in a glass sump..
I'm using acrylic baffles in my current sump.. But that because I know what I'm doing and how to do it safely (I still just knocked on wood though)

And I do think that bulldogs problem would be best solved by removing all the crap they did and getting new glass cut but what I stated before "may" be the best/easiest for them to move forward with something "usable"..

 

[d0ughb0y]

It is done all of the time and I have never heard of the sides blowing out. Usually the gap that is filled with silicone is 1/16-1/8 on each side. You also have the bowing effect in the center of the piece. Personally, I like glass so I have never used acrylic. Also I think poly-carbonate absorbs less than acrylic, I know it is stronger.

if you search, you will find a thread where the sump cracked.
I think the acrylic fitting too tight is the real cause, as there are people who say theirs have been working for years just fine.

 

[JTL]

Possible, but have not personally seen or heard of it.