SURGE bucket, that actually works!!!

Ok, guys, sorry for being gone for so long. I have pics of my setup and was wondering if somebody was willing to resize and host them for me.

Me setup is as described, and has been functional since my original posting. I made a few changes to the wiring because I found that the voltage sent to the solenoids dropped lower that 14v when they were activated. I fixed this problem like 6 months ago, and honestly cant remember what I did. All this affected was the power the solenoids had to pull open the flapper. (realized this when I tried having them surge the whole bucket full of water)

I actually shut them down last month to do some work on my overflow boxes and havenââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t gotten around to hooking them up yet. I am going to remove the return from my overflow boxes, and use both bulkheads for overflow. Dumping 10gal of water into my tank in just a few seconds occasionally caused a little spillage (go figure!!!) If anybody has a suggestion on how to lower the static water level in my tank (when all is shut off) and how to increase the gph the overflow wiers can handle, without sucking fish into the chambers, I am open to suggestion.


I cant remember all the questions asked, but they do have a overflow backup, this does take a toll on whatever pump you demand to do this, (I have been thru three) 12ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ head!! I have had the best luck so far with a mag24. No way will I throw another sealed shaft pump on it (no mater what they say). I have also been playing around with the idea of replacing my fishing line pull rope, to a ss thrd rod, (just for fun)

SZWAB, finding the solenoids & relays was actually the only hard part of this. I went with 24v cuz I had a big 24v power supply, and thought that that might do for pulling power. I would not use 110 near water in any application like this. Keep looking I am sure you will find something. I got both items from an electrical wholesaler here near me. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t know what these things were origionally intended for, but maybe some pics (somebody please help me, I have broadband and can send them to you) can clarify what is going on. The relays were nothing special and I was almost going to make my own solenoids because I thought these might not be big enough. But I just picked the ones out with the largest dia shaft, and they worked for me. The relays actually have a little led on them to let you know when they are doing what they are doing, kind of cool to watch, I guess. Anyways, I wish you all the best of luck with your surges, and all I can say is just keep fiddling around with them, and eventually you will get exactly what you want. \

Tom
 
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KingT420 said:
I have also been playing around with the idea of replacing my fishing line pull rope, to a ss thrd rod, (just for fun)

McMaster-Carr has titanium rod. A 12" x 1/4" titanium rod is $15.
 
melev said:
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This insert needs to be added alot more when people decide to "just tag along". Maybe folks will finally get the hint and stop "tagging". I used to do it just like alot of people and have since found the "Subscribe to this thread" link at the bottom. I know it must take up band width too although not much but it is still annoying when I open up an e-mail hoping for some additional thread info and all I see is "just tagging along". Waste of my time and everyone elses. Just my $.02 Thanks.
 
Freed,

You know the funny thing is don't those tags by the moderators also bring you back again...

Just thought that was kind of funny. You know, you look at the thread and it's a tag, and then later you come back and find out it's a tag of a tag saying that you shouldn't tag!

Hahhahahahaa.

Peace,
John H.
 
melev
I will send you the pics tomorrow, I am swamped.

You guys and your tags... crack me up!!!

Thanks to all for the intrest & ideas!!
 
king will the actuators on mcmaster carrs site work? They had large ones with 1/2 rods but i think they pulled only 120 ounces oof weight. will this be enough to open the flapper?

Great stuff

T
 
T, I am not familiar with those, 120oz might do it, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t know. Post a link, I king of think not. Some kind of servo could be used in lieu of the solenoid, but I think getting the circuit to control a electronic gate valve will be my next step.

Sorry to all about not getting the pics up yet. I promise soon.
 
Awesome design!

Just a thought: using a vertical-pipe-with-air as a dampener is a great idea. Plumbers use them frequently as quick fixes to quiet groaning pipes when shutting off faucets in old houses.

The problem is that eventually the air is dissolved into the water, and the noise returns. This could be catastrophic in your case.

My recollection is that there is a cheap spring-loaded fixture sold for this use that is not subject ot this problem.

I would recommend you invest in one, or at least make regular air refills in your pipe. If I understand your design, this would just require completely emptying your return pipe periodically.

Good luck!
 
What are you using for the bottom float? I've got the ones from floatswitches.net, but they arent submersable.

I'd think that anything that would power a relay would not be able to be submnerged... Unless it was one of those air pressure level controllers. like the Tsunami AT1 ?? But those are too expensive.
 
You need to thread them into the end of a pipe cap so you can submerge the pipe. The threads are 1/8"MPT. Then your leads come out of the top.
 
Ahh ya that makes sense. And now that I look at the float closer, it looks liek it might be waterproof too. But threading it sounds safer and gives me a way to mount it easier.

Thanks!
 
Chrismo, the idea of the relay is do they do not have to cary any load. They are magnetic reed type float switches. On E-bay like $5
 
Help me to understand solenoids, float switches, relays and power supplies

Help me to understand solenoids, float switches, relays and power supplies

How do I select the proper units that will work together?

I really like the idea of the solenoid operated surge device. But I have no background that would allow me to just "throw something together".

What I want to be able to do:
Detect a low/high water condition (float switch) and activate a solenoid to close (or open (maybe both)) a toilet flapper.


What I have learned from this thread and a bit of research on the net has been very helpful in understanding the concept. But I still have no idea as to what parts to buy that would work together.

Since the solenoid will be operating near water I assume that a ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œLaminated Solenoidââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ should be used. For additional safety I would like to use a low voltage power supply. I also anticipate that the unit will switch on and off very frequently. Therefore, I believe that I should use a relay to operate the solenoid. I am not too sure about this since most of the solenoids seem to operate using a very small amount of power. I am OK with a soldering iron and a multi-meter but have a great fear of having to put anything on a circuit board. :rolleyes:

A nice list of parts and where to get them would really make my day!! :)

TIA
 
Ok, so I've got it hooked up (without relays for now), but It doesn't work right.
If I hook it up in parallel only the top float controls the solenoid/flapper. If I hook them up in series, then only the bottom float controls...
Do the relays fix by being hooked up some weird way? I thought they were just triggers.

Anyone else tried this? Dman?
I'm excited to get my surge working!

Chris
 
Hey Chris,

Trying to search for how to size a surge for a tank but haven't had any luck and was wondering that due to this design and/or a ball valve surge that salt creep wouldn't be an issue.

Thanks

tom
 
That is the beauty of this type or ball valve type surges!
NO bubbles = NO salt creep.
The flapper or ball valve closes before the surge line can suck air.
AFA sizing the surge tank, It can be the volume of your tank or more IF the overflows and sump can handle it. Realistically, look at what your sump can handle. You can size the surge to that amount.
Take care of any limited overflow capacity by putting in an adjustment valve in the same line as the ballvalve / flapper. Set the valve to what your overflows can handle, then let the surge open and close.
Chris
 
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