Surges

[larder]

Rod: I built a surge according to your instructions from the Midwest Frag Fest, and would like to suggest to anyone making a flapper style surge to use fishing line instead of a chain. It may be because mine is small (~4 gallons in a wastebasket), but I had trouble with the chain kinking and preventing the flapper from closing. I even went to American Science and Surplus for the plastic chain you recommended.

Roman Ogee: I would like to know how you plumb your siphon-based surges to reduce bubbles entering the tank. Every siphon-based surge I've seen has been an almost continuous surge of bubbles.

 

[skunkmere]

would a surge be advisable for a bow front glass tank. would it add strain to the tank. i got a 90 gallon, no fuge.

 

[SaraB]

Just an FYI that Walmart carries a replacement flapper with a plastic chain. I purchased the kit just to get the plastic chain and then tossed the rest.

 

[ekrunch]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here and should be ... watch out for your bulkhead placement when plumbing your surge into the tank. DO NOT place the bulkhead too low or the surge will not fire. This has nothing to do with the Bourneman/Carlson debate, it's all surges. If the bulkheads are too low, there's too much water pressure on the surge and you end up with a continuous flow, not a SURGE.

 

[ekrunch]

My 0.02 on a Bourneman is that if you do run one without drilling some sort of e-drain, just MAKE SURE that your pump does not out run the surge's ability to drain down the back of the plumbing. Pull the chain off of the flapper and run it to make sure that the pump won't over run the thing in the event of a chain break.

I've seen a Bourneman that had a large pump on it and when the chain broke, the surge was not able to drain off water fast enough down it's normal drain. If it weren't for an e-drain, there would have been water all over the floor. I've got nothing against either kind, but an extra bulkhead and a little PVC for an e-drain almost always makes sense. Just my 0.02. As always your mileage may vary.

 

[SaraB]

I'm with Ed as well since he's partly speaking of my system in the first post. One of my surge return lines was drilled too low, so I have 1 slower surge on my system.

I also had Rod drill me some emergency drains on my surge as well for the just in case scenario in Ed's post #2.

 

[Fish_wiz2]

I'm with Ed as well since he's partly speaking of my system in the first post. One of my surge return lines was drilled too low, so I have 1 slower surge on my system.

I also had Rod drill me some emergency drains on my surge as well for the just in case scenario in Ed's post #2.

Cool, what are you feeding it with? Is it T-ed from your return? Also what would you recommend for the height of the return line? Thanks!

 

[SaraB]

Cool, what are you feeding it with? Is it T-ed from your return? Also what would you recommend for the height of the return line? Thanks!

Mine are T'd off my return line. Right now I have a Super Dart for the return, but I'm going to put my Barracuda back on so that I can feed my nano and frag tank as well with all that flow.

I think it depends how high your surge tanks are placed above the dislay, but I have issues with the one just about the half way mark. My other one that is a 1/4 down from top is the best flowing one. You can direct the flow downward using the flexible 1" nozzles you can get at Oceans Motions. Personally I wouldn't drill any return lines below the half way mark of your tank is my 2 cents unless you can be like Roman and have surges in the attic!

 

[Fish_wiz2]

Thanks a bunch Sara, great advice. I think im set on what to do, just waiting on Rod to to hook me up plus help me plan my system.

 

[dja1980]

Wiz, how big of a surge are you looking to build? Rod helped me build one out as his shop out of a black plastic Rubbermaid waste basket a few months ago. I believe it's around 5 gallons, maybe a little less.

Anyway, after countless hours of trying to find a feasible place to mount it I gave up. I think I have $25 (and a lot of time) invested in it. You can have it at my cost if you're interested... it's never been used.

 

[Helter Skilter]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you can get harder surges through Carlson surge devices since they do not have to be choked down to 1" plumbing to accomodate the flapper in the Borneman style surge.

I can say that over two years of running my 3 CSDs (built by Roman), I've yet to break a bulb from spray, nor have I had any other problems with mine. In that same time, I've heard of several local reefers' Borneman surges failing, and causing floods.

 

[goat585]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you can get harder surges through Carlson surge devices since they do not have to be choked down to 1" plumbing to accomodate the flapper in the Borneman style surge.

I can say that over two years of running my 3 CSDs (built by Roman), I've yet to break a bulb from spray, nor have I had any other problems with mine. In that same time, I've heard of several local reefers' Borneman surges failing, and causing floods.

A toilet flush valve is 2" so you can go up to a 2" surge discharge.

Both surge types will work if they are properly designed. If they are, both will provide years of reliable operation.

 

[Helter Skilter]

I stand corrected. I remembered reading in Borneman's own instructions, that there is 1" plumbing after the flapper. Now that I reread it (Aquarium Corals) he does say to use a 1" reducer, but I suppose you don't really have to, if you don't want to.

 

[Fish_wiz2]

Wiz, how big of a surge are you looking to build? Rod helped me build one out as his shop out of a black plastic Rubbermaid waste basket a few months ago. I believe it's around 5 gallons, maybe a little less.

Anyway, after countless hours of trying to find a feasible place to mount it I gave up. I think I have $25 (and a lot of time) invested in it. You can have it at my cost if you're interested... it's never been used.

I appreciate your offer but im looking to make on out of a 10 gallon tank or some buckets, really anything cheap or free and small as i have height for it but not much height for the container. Wiz

 

[Rod Buehler]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you can get harder surges through Carlson surge devices since they do not have to be choked down to 1" plumbing to accomodate the flapper in the Borneman style surge.

I can say that over two years of running my 3 CSDs (built by Roman), I've yet to break a bulb from spray, nor have I had any other problems with mine. In that same time, I've heard of several local reefers' Borneman surges failing, and causing floods.

the discussion of the flapper style not being able to be 2" has been put to rest so I wont mention the few of those that I have had running.

Helter, do your carlsons have a safty drain??

As ekrunch pointed out, a safty overflow (e-drain) can be put in a flapper style surge just the same as its put into the carlson style.. FWIW, I only feed mine with a small energy efficient pump that wont overflow the built in e-drain/saftey overflow so many/most of mine do not have/need the extra e-drain


Also, if you would like to have your surges discharge lower in the tank, you can, but you'll need more head on the surges. ( get them higher above the tank)

Wiz, I have some 2" flapper styles that you can have. They may need a little work, but I would actually take them and convert them into 1" surges if I were you. I will soon have a few more (1") available ( along with some breeding percs, some cube tanks, 40 breeders, tons of free live sand.

 

[Fish_wiz2]

Wiz, I have some 2" flapper styles that you can have. They may need a little work, but I would actually take them and convert them into 1" surges if I were you. I will soon have a few more (1") available ( along with some breeding percs, some cube tanks, 40 breeders, tons of free live sand.

Awesome, e-mail sent.