Thanks everyone.
Wiz.. I'm down to 2 surges running, but if you're in the area or even if you just want some feedback, I'd be glad to BS with ya about Carlson's.
And what is to fail in the flapper style?
1.The flapper itself(wear and tear, sealing issues-small debris or poor flapper)
2.The chain that connects to the float(many people have had that chain break)
3. The lack of emergency drains common with Borneman's(many have had their surge tank overflow when that float chain breaks and that flapper doesn't open. If you're not there, it could run the sump/pump dry causing even more problems)
And how big of a pump do you need with the carlson?
Not as big as one would think. Yes, a little bigger than usual, but its only to accommodate for the extra height. I've actually tweaked my Carlson's so I can run more flow to them instead of less. Which is possible too. It's all on what you want out of the surge though. I guess if you have a surge on your tank and it fires every 5-10 minutes, that's all good. But I have a
surge tank(well.. a
"surge tub" :lmao: ), so I want/like/enjoy more frequent and longer surges you get from more flow to the surge tank.
how do you deal with the bubbles associated with carlson surges.
See, that's funny cause I've had the exact opposite luck. When I ran Borenmans, the bubbles were much worse than the Carlsons and the water that would usually splash up at the start of the surge was ridiculous. I feared for the lives of my halide bulbs! :lmao: A simple vent or two in the right spots on a Carlson and after the pipe clears a little, its bubble free.
FWIW, I have built a few carlsons back in the day ( Seascope 1996) but then in 98 ( Fama aug (?) 98.. to surge or not to surge by Eric Borneman) I started playing with the borneman style surges. I still have some of them running that I built in 1998. 2 of them need new flappers but thats after 10 years. I think the $3 bux for a flapper was paid for by by the energy consumption that I have saved due to the flapper requiring smaller pumps that the carlsons
Once again, I think its all on what you want to do and how you do it. I don't like extra cords, power strips and cleaning/plumbing/relying on multiple pumps so I just use my 1 return pump to feed the surges. Sure it needs to be a little bigger than if I just wanted to return the water the the display, but I prefer 1 slightly larger pump over multiple pumps/Tunze's/Ocean Motions or whatever else it would take to equal the flow and randomness of my surges. The lack of extra cords, moving parts and buying and maintaining pumps and/or motors is well worth the little extra power consumption it
may take to run Carlsons.
up until a few weeks ago, I had 23 surges running, and none of them were carlsons. Not because I dont know how to build a carlson, but because I feel that the flapper style is much much better. Much less bubbles, much smaller pump requirements ( a small maxijet ) and much more reliable.Wiithout a large pump, the carlsons will often not start the siphon, or not break the siphon.. both can be overcome by using a larger pump. but the reason for me to use surges was to get away from large pumps .
I've only been working with surges for 3-5 years. I started with Borneman's and was not happy with the results. A little more plumbing to buy versus the Carlson's, flapper sealing issues, typically a metal chain to attach the float, float attachment can break, way too much splash up from the "surge burp" at the beginning of the surge, too noisy and too many air bubbles. The Carlson style surge was my cure for all of that. When the Carlson's do have problems, it's usually because of the plumbing. Improper sized pipes/vents, lack of vents, or poor plumbing techniques going as far as plumbing the surge tank too low.
At the end of the day, they both can have their ups and downs. Its up to the individual to make what they like work. If you can make yourself happy with the end result, that is what's important. Either way....
SURGE'S ROCK!!!
