T5's: A cautionary note

[johns]

What I hope to do is prove the inverse square law for halides vs. the linear drop-off if T5s (or any other linear bulb). Example: T5 reading at 20" deep = 1x, Halide reading at 20" depth = 1/2x, T5 reading at 2" under water = 2x, Halide reading at 2" under water=4x.

Hahn-
If you dealing with a linear drop-off on T5 and the light at 20" deep is 1x, then the light at 2" deep should be 10x. Am I confused about something?

 

[GoldStripe]

Been watching this thread forever and I'm getting ready to order some equipment. My system is a 150 tall (48x24x30). My primary light will be 2x250 DE MH in Reef Optix III pendants. Because of the depth of the tank (24") I have room for more lighting. I was contemplating 2 54w T5's in front of the halides and 1 54w T5 behind. The reason I'm only using 1 behind is I have a Calfo style overflow that takes up some depth. No need to light that. My 250w bulbs are either going to be 10k Reeflux DE's or Phoenix 14k's. I have a 20k Aqualine Bushke bulb now and I hate the color, needs to be way more white. The MH ballasts are IceCaps.
With 10k's I figured 2 of my 3 T5's should be actinic but I don't know about the 3rd one. Any suggestions would be appeciated. I'm going to be using the IceCap SLR reflectors & Workhorse 5 ballasts.

By the way, great to see you back Grim. I've used your suggestions in the past with great success!!

Thanks

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7250938#post7250938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GoldStripe

With 10k's I figured 2 of my 3 T5's should be actinic but I don't know about the 3rd one. Any suggestions would be appeciated. I'm going to be using the IceCap SLR reflectors & Workhorse 5 ballasts.

By the way, great to see you back Grim. I've used your suggestions in the past with great success!!

Thanks

I'd use 2 actinic plus and 1 pure actinic for the T5's/

 

[GoldStripe]

Thanks for the quick response Grim!! I actually mismeasured my available space on top of the tank. I will have enough room to run the 2x250 halides and 4x54 T5s. So, with that in mind would you run 2 actinic plus and 2 pure actinic?

Another combo I thought about was 2 pure actinic and 2 GE 6500k daylight. I do want to get some PAR out of the T5s I'll be using. I know the daylight bulbs are a little yellow but I figured with the halides you wouldn't notice that. But you are the guru so I will see what you think. Thanks again

 

[drouner]

Grim as long as your giving out recommendations how one for me.

I just bought a used 58 18" wide x 21 deep x 36" long, was thinking about moving my 1-175 over to it and ditching the PC's for T5's. I have a mix of everything right now. Or should I go 6 T5s? What bulbs?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7249468#post7249468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Hey Grim...thanks for the info...you said...

"Didn't see that posted. I got 120 in the sand from 250 watt 10K DE's ran on E Ballasts. Running a 10K hamilton lamp on the same E ballast in a ROlll pendant I got 150 with the fixture like 4" above the water and over 200 with it sitting on the tank frame (seafood gumbo position). The 4 lamp IC system did 183 one inch above the tank frame (2 1/2~3" above the water), Spec T5 ballasts with IC reflectors pulled 135. All the measurments were taken on the sandbed under the lamps.

Also at shallow depths (about 12") the IC and CD reflectors had even light output. Under 18" of water the Ice Cap's gained a small advantage over the CD's a little less than 10% as I remember.

Geisemann makes some nice stuff but are the reflectors in their halide/T5 systems as good as the Sunlight Supply Maristar system? The ROlll reflectors are hard to beat."

Can you give me the readings from the surface as well? I am also interested in how the T5s conpared to the halide within the first few inches or so. What I hope to do is prove the inverse square law for halides vs. the linear drop-off if T5s (or any other linear bulb). Example: T5 reading at 20" deep = 1x, Halide reading at 20" depth = 1/2x, T5 reading at 2" under water = 2x, Halide reading at 2" under water=4x.

I thought I remembered reading your results (cant remember where or when) that the halides had a peak that was much higher in the top 6", but their intensity dropped off much faster than T5s in comparison...so I could use comparative intensities from the top few inches from the tank as well...

The inverse square law only holds true in the absence of any reflectance. The best way to defeate the inverse Square law is to use a parabolic reflector, like the majority of halides use anymore.

The linear aspect of a T5 doesn't make the light travel any deeper. After you move a short distance away from the lamp (22% of the lamp length is the number I seem to remember being told) there is no more real effect because the light along the axis has so much further to travel. Using multiple lamps has a much greater effect on intensity but again the light isnt traveling any further, it is just more intense due to the overlap. The linear aspect really only makes the light created more even across the length of the tank.

T5 kick because of the reflector, being ran in an array and they can be placed so close to the water. Assuming you had a linear drop off (which doesn't happen even with a good reflector) a halide mounted 8" above the water has to be twice as intense as a T5 array sitting 4" above to compete. Another benefit that gets overlooked is having the lamps close to the water in tightly focused reflectors causes most of the light to hit the water at a right angle so not as much reflects off the surface. When I ran halides it looked like the northern lights on the ceiling. Nothing but maybe a faint glow with the T5's.

I didn't do measurements at different levels, too many variables without creating an elaborate fixture to keep the sensor at an even angle. The "shallow" reading were done under different conditions and are only useful regarding reflector performance at that particular depth.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7251280#post7251280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GoldStripe
Thanks for the quick response Grim!! I actually mismeasured my available space on top of the tank. I will have enough room to run the 2x250 halides and 4x54 T5s. So, with that in mind would you run 2 actinic plus and 2 pure actinic?

Another combo I thought about was 2 pure actinic and 2 GE 6500k daylight. I do want to get some PAR out of the T5s I'll be using. I know the daylight bulbs are a little yellow but I figured with the halides you wouldn't notice that. But you are the guru so I will see what you think. Thanks again

If you are concerned about PAR go with PAR monster halides (XM 10K) and run 4 actinic plus (or 3 AP and 1 Pure Actinic) to wash out the yellow from the halides. The Actinic Plus put out decent PAR. Unless you want to overdrive the lamps the GE's arent going to make the difference going with stronger halides will. The XM 10K is about 30% more PAR than a Phoenix 14K.

 

[GoldStripe]

I'm going with 10k halides for sure, either XM's or Reeflux. I don't have par numbers on the Reeflux yet.

I spoke with Greg at Reefgeek. In a 4 lamp retro setup running 2 halides also, he recommended 2 actinics and 2 blueplus bulbs. But I don't know if he meant Aquablue Plus or the Actinic/Blue Plus. I'll have to clarify that when I call in to order them.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7252055#post7252055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drouner
Grim as long as your giving out recommendations how one for me.

I just bought a used 58 18" wide x 21 deep x 36" long, was thinking about moving my 1-175 over to it and ditching the PC's for T5's. I have a mix of everything right now. Or should I go 6 T5s? What bulbs?

Thanks,

Doug

A single 175 aint gonna do much over that tank. You could try running it with a couple of actinic plus T5's, just keep high light crits in the center of the tank. If you want a lot of high light critters Id try 6 t5's. I like 1 pure actinic, 1 GE 2 actinic plus and 2 aquablues, it is slightly blue but has warm look.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7252247#post7252247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GoldStripe
I'm going with 10k halides for sure, either XM's or Reeflux. I don't have par numbers on the Reeflux yet.

I spoke with Greg at Reefgeek. In a 4 lamp retro setup running 2 halides also, he recommended 2 actinics and 2 blueplus bulbs. But I don't know if he meant Aquablue Plus or the Actinic/Blue Plus. I'll have to clarify that when I call in to order them.

Blueplus and actinic plus are the same lamp.

 

[GoldStripe]

Sorry for the confusion Grim. Here's the listing from Reefgeek. So, it's the second bulb in this list then?

Giesemann 54W 11000K Aquablue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent $21.95
Giesemann 54W Actinic/Blue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent $20.95

 

[dwdenny]

drouner it is up to you I have a 40g breeder same dimensions but only 16" tall. I am going to be using 4X39w T5 running on spec T5 ballast. With a 4" SB no real need to overdrive them. I am concerned about what I shouldn't keep with these light vs. what I can keep. My bulbs will be 2 aquablues and 2 blue+ bulbs. I may be wrong here but shrooms are probably out of the question. lol But I love Zoas and brains(mostly the maze brains) some have just said go with VHO(is an option) but the lamp life is what brings me back to T5.

Anyone got a clue on what I shouldn't try to keep (lower light corals)?

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7252274#post7252274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GoldStripe
Sorry for the confusion Grim. Here's the listing from Reefgeek. So, it's the second bulb in this list then?

Giesemann 54W 11000K Aquablue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent $21.95
Giesemann 54W Actinic/Blue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent $20.95

There is also a pure actinic. The actinic plus/ blue plus refer to a nice 450 nm blue lamps that fluoresces corals pretty well, really pops red and blue fluorescence but not much with green. The pure actinic is a 420nm lamp that is a more violet/purple colored light that really makes greens fluoresce like crazy but not much else.

I also saw where you were planning the WH ballast. Bad move, get a real T5 ballast. You get better output and should a lamp fail the ballast will shut down rather than damage something.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7252328#post7252328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dwdenny
drouner it is up to you I have a 40g breeder same dimensions but only 16" tall. I am going to be using 4X39w T5 running on spec T5 ballast. With a 4" SB no real need to overdrive them. I am concerned about what I shouldn't keep with these light vs. what I can keep. My bulbs will be 2 aquablues and 2 blue+ bulbs. I may be wrong here but shrooms are probably out of the question. lol But I love Zoas and brains(mostly the maze brains) some have just said go with VHO(is an option) but the lamp life is what brings me back to T5.

Anyone got a clue on what I shouldn't try to keep (lower light corals)?

I wonder if you wouldn't be better off with 24 watt lamps staggered? Could probably keep shrooms out at the ends.

 

[dwdenny]

that is what we were discussing over at creavtivereefing. The wife likes shrooms. Ah the lighting such a tricky situation. At least with 24w I could keep some SPS up high under all four lamps.

 

[RGibson]

Grim i want to used just one T6 lamp for blue color on my 180 reef tank,i have 3 175 watt ushio bulbs what bulb and ballast will i need?

 

[GoldStripe]

2 of my 4 are going to be pure actinic. I was trying to clear up what the other 2 should be.

The main reason for the WH 5 ballasts was that I already have them on hand and this will save me some money. I spoke with Fulham and they said it would be fine to use those WH 5's with T5's. What would be a real T5 ballast? I can always upgrade the ballasts later I suppose.

 

[Nabber86]

I just ordered a Tek 48" x 4 bulb fixture for $230 (w/free shiping). I was recommended to use the following bulbs:

2 x Giesemann 54W Aquablue
2 x Giesemann 54W Blue Actinic Plus

I am putting this over my 75-gallon display tank that has mostly softies (mushrooms, leathers, zoanthids, lots of ricordia) and some LPS (blastos, Acan Lords, open brain).

The reason I went for the 4 bulb fixture was that I wanted to get a little more light so we can put a few SPS on top of the liverock, but not some much to fry the existing softies. I think 6 lamps would be way too much for my setup and I like the low(er) price of the 4-bulb setup. (Not to mention that the energy and bulb replacement cost savings will pay for the fixture in about 3 years)*

Plus I figure if we go for more SPS later, I can get a IC ballast and overdrive all 4 lamps.

Does this make sense? Are my softies gonna fry? Any thoughts?

*(I am replacing my crappy Coralife 4 x 65 watt PC fixture. Look for an e-Bay sale soon....)

 

[The Grim Reefer]

The WH is a hard start ballast and has no end of life protection circuit, both sandards set by those who actually designed T5 lamps. IME the workhorse used a tad more power, produced a little less light and was not consistant in the output compared to a T5 ballast. I used a Dynamic ballast to do the tests, once I get moved I have a triad and Centrium lined up to try out.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7252536#post7252536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nabber86
I just ordered a Tek 48" x 4 bulb fixture for $230 (w/free shiping). I was recommended to use the following bulbs:

2 x Giesemann 54W Aquablue
2 x Giesemann 54W Blue Actinic Plus

I am putting this over my 75-gallon display tank that has mostly softies (mushrooms, leathers, zoanthids, lots of ricordia) and some LPS (blastos, Acan Lords, open brain).

The reason I went for the 4 bulb fixture was that I wanted to get a little more light so we can put a few SPS on top of the liverock, but not some much to fry the existing softies. I figure if we go for more SPS later, I can get a IC ballast and overdrive all 4 lamps.

Does this make sense? Are my softies gonna fry?

(I am replacing my crappy Aqualite 4 x 65 watt PC fixture. Look for an e-Bay sale soon....)

Sounds like a good plan.