T5's: A cautionary note

alot depends on if you need that 30% xtra light or not. Since I am planning out a 26" tall custom tank, then the extra PAR will be necessary.

Do you have a link that outlines the impact on the various bulbs ? (since you mentioned it depends on the bulb you match it up with). Thanks again :)


Oh, you mentioned 30% more light for close to 30% more electricity.. but previously it was stated at 3 - 4 times (300% - 400%) more elcetricity than a workhorse ballast. ????
 
I am guessing here but there probably is no difference in the Triad and the centium advance series T5HO ballast. I have an electrical supply Co. here locally that is looking into getting the Advance ballast. Hopefully not to expensive. I have also sent an email to universal lighting(triads) to see if there is a local dealer here. WIll have to wait until Monday due to the holiday probably.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7171636#post7171636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
And the initial feedback is that it decreases bulb life...so getting 30% more light out of the bulb (at close to 30% more electricity)at 33% less bulb life (or worse it seems depending on the bulb you match it with) is a trade off.
Click to expand...

this is exactly why using the ic slr or aqualux sold CDR reflectors makes so much sense over using the ic ballast to run a retro with tek reflectors.

the tek is 20% less par at a depth of 16" or so compared to the IC or aqualux.

a more efficient use of electricity is by using a better reflector. at some point though too much par is too much par. I cant imagine running an IC ballast on my tank. i think i would fry everything in it:eek2:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7171856#post7171856 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dwdenny
I am guessing here but there probably is no difference in the Triad and the centium advance series T5HO ballast. I have an electrical supply Co. here locally that is looking into getting the Advance ballast. Hopefully not to expensive. I have also sent an email to universal lighting(triads) to see if there is a local dealer here. WIll have to wait until Monday due to the holiday probably.
Click to expand...

i think that is an accurate statement, based on the fact they have the same ratings and startup type.

but what if you want to run 80w bulbs? then you need one of these per reflector, since they only make 2x54w or 108 total wtts.

i have not yet seen a triad or advance that can do more than 2x54w of t5ho. maybe they are made, but I hav eyet to see them on lighting sites
 
yeah, and they make 2x54, so that would drive an 80watt t5ho. I guess what i am getting at is there (besides workhorse) is there any other (esp program start) ballast that will run 2 80 watt t5s?
 
Hahnmeister where are you getting your data from on the 33% less lamp life with the IC ballast? What model watt and PAR meters did you use to prove the IC ballast used 300 to 400 percent more power and decreased the lamp life 30%?
 
there have been a number of RCers showing that bulb life when used with a IC 430 or 660 ballast have drastically been reduced vs normally driving them.

icecap doesnt think so though. check their forum out.
with the verbage that IC uses about how the new UVlighting bulbs are specifically designed to take being overdriven, it has to make you wonder if the available bulbs now cant handle this overdriving. also, more watts= more heat. heat is what kills bulbs. maybe running a fan over them will reduce the extra heat to non fan cooled heat levels.

me, honestly, i would never shell out $100 or more dollars for a ballast, when a workhorse/ advance/ triad will do the job admirably, for a lot less money. my w5 driven t5ho retro is bright as all daylights as is. my lps are not even happy on the bottom of my 17" tall tank with 3x39 and w5 driven and aqualux reflectorerd t5ho retro. the sps are happy anywhere in my tank. why would you need to overdrive them? i know the answer to that, but even when i get my 90g, (24"tall) i will not, and do not feel the need to overdrive the t5ho i will have on there, even if i go all t5ho, and no mh... it seems many others feel the same way.
 
I just want to know what Hahn si measuring the light and watts with. I remember Grim stating that the IC uses 29% more power and produces 35% more light.
 
From IceCap:
There are some opinions /inaccuracies in this thread that I don't agree with but I don't have the time to jump in late take on everything.

An easy one - 'overdriven T5HO lamps will use lots more electricity and dramatically shorten lamp life and gives off only slightly more light ....'
Maybe that's why UVL company likes our ballasts? The reality is we both believe a brighter T-5HO with 2 years of reef service in a well ventilated canopy or fan cooled fixture would be the best ad for our ballast and their lamps. Check the wattage consumed not the amps, to calculate cost of running an IceCap VHO ballast.

The light output per watt has been shown by many hobbyist (TGR) to be equal or better with our VHO ballasts than a HO ballasts in l/w. BTW, the WH ballast may light T5HO lamps, but it's not something I'd recommend safety-wise. A T5HO ballast must shut down power to a dead lamp. Our existing safety shutdown makes our overdriving the lamps still safe to operate. I have 4 X 54-watt lamps powered by a Model 660 over my tank as well as MH. The fluorescent light exceeds what my VHO powered T-12s provided with 7 months into them and still going strong.

Andy
 
Exactly what grim was saying. At 14 months he still had what he felt like was of 80%of the PAR I think. 29% increase in power but a 35%increase in PAR. SOunds like to me a good deal.

Andy I might be going with a 430 to run two aquablue and a regular ballast to run the blue+ not sure yet. I might switch it sense I wont be running it for SPS but would like to have a clam or two. :)
 
I've had Triad, Workhorse and finally a 660. I will never run those cheaper ballasts again. They run hot, their construction is sub-par and they sure did darken the ends of my bulbs compared to my Icecap ballasts.
I'd like to hear form the folks or see where the data came from claiming shorter bulb life. How are these facts being calculated?
 
Icecap claims longer bulb life due to soft starting, which in turn means less 'darkening' at the ends. Sure, this extends the life of the bulb if you were going to continue using it until the bulb wont fire any more, but means little to nothing to reefers who replace the bulbs when their output is diminished or shifted (long before they cease to fire). Phosphor shift and fade is due to heat. While it is possible for an IC ballast to have a near normal life for the bulb, the only way it could claim that would be if they could somehow increase the voltage to the bulb yet not increase the heat, which last I checked...was impossible w/o better cooling (and even at that, there is only so much you can do from outside the bulb). This means that extra ventilation is the key to keep icecap run T5s from burning out early, as the bulbs must be kept that much cooler to compensate for the greater power.

At that, I see other people with 10% loss in PAR when running the IC after just a month, and worse after that. Im sure it varies with bulb to bulb (actinics prolly burn out much faster on IC in comparison to 6500K GEs).

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=795494&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
 
I am with hahnmeister on this one.
i run a workhorse 5 to light my t5ho retrofit. after near 16 months on the original bulbs, there is no darkening of he ends on any of my bulbs.

i still conlude that more heat = less life. fans may help a lot, but even so, i use less wattage, and the ballast costs less. by the way, my w5 doesnt run hot at all. you can easily hold your hand on it after its been running all day. I will shoot it with the digital pyrometer tomorrow, after the lights have been on for a good number of hours.
 
Ok the way I see it and I trust Grim on this one is yeah the IC 660 ballast cost $160 and the 430 you canget for about $140. What you are paying for in the 3 year warrenty, great customer service, and product that will out last your WH, Triads, Advance what ever ballast. Peice of mind that it is going to last longer is what your paying for plus better internal components. I dont run IC ballast and may not. But I believe that what grim has tested and what IC has tested. Until Hahn can give me some results that he tested then I will beieve him. On another note horkn canyou name some people that have premature bulb failure on IC ballast for me. I would bet that they did not have great connection in the endcaps, might have used the cheaper T5HO lamps, etc.
 
If you had to prematurely kill a fluorescent lamp, excess heat is great and a poor connection maybe even better. When I tested the GE lamps (well know as the providers of the best lamps available - LOL.) I didn't get a 10% drop in 1 year of abusive 24/7 use. Measuring light output from higher Kelvin lamps is best left to the Sanjays of the world.

I never said the WH didn't light the lamps, just that it was a potential fire hazard, destructive to lamp life but otherwise a great ballast for the price.

UVL (URI) samples of their new T5HO line suggest the wait is worth it. I am very impressed with their super actinic and anxious to work with the entire line.

Andy
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7180775#post7180775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by horkn
I am with hahnmeister on this one.
i run a workhorse 5 to light my t5ho retrofit. after near 16 months on the original bulbs, there is no darkening of he ends on any of my bulbs.

i still conlude that more heat = less life. fans may help a lot, but even so, i use less wattage, and the ballast costs less. by the way, my w5 doesnt run hot at all. you can easily hold your hand on it after its been running all day. I will shoot it with the digital pyrometer tomorrow, after the lights have been on for a good number of hours.
Click to expand...
Interesting,I've ran 39w T5's on my WH5 for just over a yr,even with a near 0 reading on my ohm meter doing a continuity test,I still had alot of blackening on the ends of my tubes.The reason,its obvious if you look at the way it fires the bub.They're INSTANT START,they dont use cathode heating and fire the bulb at a higher voltage.This causes excessive wear on the filaments and seriously shortens lamp life.Look at the facts,PROGRAMMED START ballasts provide nearly 2-3x the total on/off cycles than INSTANT START.
 
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