Taking the ESV Salt plunge...

scolley · Jun 6, 2010

2nd Batch: Lesson Learned

2nd Batch: Lesson Learned

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> The measuring tools that come with the product are great. But the volume markings on the handles WILL rub off it you are not careful. So I've placed a piece of clear Scotch brand tape over the markings on each one. I do the same thing on the syringes in Salifert test kits. Works great for the syringes. I assume it will work equally well for these.
But whatever your method, if you don't take some form of precaution, those markings a almost certainly going to rub off...

connecticut cichlids · Jun 6, 2010

Steve , your welcome to come get the boxes of salt at anytime.. They're taking up valuable space in my basement...

I'm almost set on purchasing a new "all-in-one" setup soon.. Eveytime I log on to the web, I see new setups avail. There are alot of choices out there

scolley · Jun 6, 2010

Thank you sir! That's very kind. Especially as Jeff is clearly NOT with the the program.

I'll PM you. And can't take it as a gift. It's too much. But I'm sure we can come to a mutually agreeable number.

Thanks!

connecticut cichlids · Jun 6, 2010

Sounds good...

scolley · Jun 26, 2010

3rd mixing session, consistent results

3rd mixing session, consistent results

Mixed up my third batch a few days ago, and once again found I had to add an additional 1/2 cup of salt to the ESV calculated volume. That put me bang-on 1.025. So it's consistent with the last batch.

I can't count my first batch since I figured out that I had the problem with both my calcs of my RO/DI mixing container volume, and my refractometer calibration solution. But those two things have been resolved for the last two batches, and the result has been somewhat low salinity, but easily can consistently corrected to the same 1.025 endpoint. So it's consistent.

scolley · Jun 26, 2010

ripping through 2-part

ripping through 2-part

I've been on this salt for a little over a month now. If you read this thread you'll know that I only do small water changes each day. I've temporarily doubled the rate I change water to get this change over with faster. So rather than changing water at a 25-30% a month rate (little bit each day), I'm at something like 50-55% a month (twice the little bit each day).

At over a month in, I should be more than 50% ESV, and the rest Reef Crystals.

RC has both a higher alk and higher Ca than ESV, and I'm absolutely ripping through 2-part. I anticipated this, of course, but must admit being a little surprised at just how much I'm having to pump in to keep my levels stable. In about a month when it's pretty much all ESV in the tank, the changing requirements should stabilize. Then I'll be able to compare the "before" 2-part requirements with RC to the "after" with ESV. Right now, it's still changing.

scolley · Jun 26, 2010

Corals all happy, mostly...

Corals all happy, mostly...

The surge in growth in my Birdsnests has continued. I guess I can't really know if that's due to the ESV, or the fact that I've doubled up my water change rate. If it still continues when I back my w/c rate back to what it was before I was changing to ESV - which will be in a month, that will tell the tale. But they are still growing at a rapid rate.

I mentioned earlier that the tank is algae free except for some spots of red algae that you can find if you know where to look. It's all to be found on the stalks of one particular large paly, and the bottoms (or lower shaded branches) of some of my sps. That algae has reduced. But it's not gone. I had hoped I could report that it disappeared - to blame it all on RC. But it's still there in limited amounts. So once again, I guess I have to wait until the change over is complete.

More in a few weeks...

Wheel of Time · Jun 27, 2010

Very interesting observations with the algae and the growth of the birdsnest. Im vey curious to see how it comps to the 'old' norm you experienced once it is fully esv for a couple months.

Thanks for posting this experience.

clittrell · Jun 29, 2010

Keep up the great study. Other than bionic for calc and alk do you add anything else to the tank like trace elements?

scolley · Jun 29, 2010

Just Mg - which is also dropping BTW. It was high in RC, and I rarely had to dose it. Now I'm having to dose weekly to keep my levels up.

But other than ESV mix, food, Mg, and BRS 2-part, nothing else goes in that water. Except my arm, when a coral falls over...

rjinct · Sep 8, 2010

Hi Steve -- Any update on how you're doing with this salt?

I'm thinking of trying this salt out because I do not like seeing all the left-over residue left over from mixing up RC and it never seems to mix clear (despite slowing adding salt to the water...I mix entire bags at once).

I had a very specific scenario I wanted an answer to because of the way the instructions are written and how my mixing station is setup. With this in mind, I emailed the folks at ESV about my scenario to see if ESV salt would work for me. I rec'd a response from the creator/owner. Here's the pertinent parts of our exchange:

...
-Me-

Had a question about your salt. Before I take the plunge was hoping you cold answer some questions. Is it necessary to always start with a completely empty container and straight RO/DI water? The reason I ask is because I mix my current salt in a 55 gallon barrel and it is hooked up to my automatic water change system (I replace a small amount of DT water with new SW every day). Currently, when the barrel gets low, I add in a pre-determined amount of RO/DI water and salt mix and continue to add enough RO/DI water from another barrel to reach my desired salinity.

Would like to try your product but noticed there are specific instructions
about the order and specific steps to refrain from adding any other ingredients until the water mixes clear from each previous step. Would you see any issues with mixing ESV salt the following way?

-When barrel gets low (so starting with small amount of existing salt water, ~5 gallons)
-Add ~35 gallons of ROI/DI water to barrel
-Follow steps to mix 40 gallon batch of salt (adding ingredients in set order,
mixing, waiting until clear etc.)
-Slowly adding RO/DI water and mixing (~5 gallons) in order to get to target
salinity (34ppt)

-Bob's Response-

Your proposed method using our salt system should work fine as long as you are starting with at least 90% of the required RO/DI water so in your example you might want to start with a minimum or 36 gals RO/DI water when using the formula for making 40 gals of SW.

...

With this in mind, I'm certain I can get close to 40, 50 etc. gallons (definitely 90%+ of target volume) of fresh water, add the appropriate amt. of ingredients as directed, and just top off / mix until I hit the salinity target. I figure I'd have precision, up front, with the dry ingredients and "back into" the correct water volume by measuring salinity on my refractometer. Also, glad to see he didn't see an issue with the existing water already in the barrel.

In an case, thought this might give others something else to think about before trying it out.

I wil be trying this salt out as soon as my current RC batch is exhausted...and I thoroughly clean the barrel (again).

scolley · Sep 8, 2010

Joe - good luck with the salt. I love it.

I should have posted an update, but everything remains the same:

1) Consistent, easy mixing
2) Zero residue
3) SPS growing like crazy (relative with the to old salt)
4) Corals all looking great in general, trying to bust out of my little tank

Unfortunately I'm not sure that's valid feedback, because I'm STILL on my accelerated water change cycle. Where I used to change 30% or so every month - through tiny daily changes - that amount is doubled now. It's been doubled since I switched to this salt, to accelerate the elimination of my old RC salt.

I was going to set stuff back to normal at the end of the 2nd month, but that was just a week or so before a two week vacation, and I was loathe to change anything (if it ain't broke - don't fix it - especially if you are leaving!).

But I'm back now, and will go back to the old w/c schedule shortly, give it a month or two, and report back.

Joe - I did a 2nd read of your post, and IMO it's not going to work very well. You indicated that you begin mixing "when the barrel get's low". Unless that's the same exact spot every time, you are going to condemn yourself fixing the salinity on every batch - which is a PITA. So you COULD do it from the same spot each time. But that condemns you to watching for that spot, and then acting in a narrow time window. Not good.

One of the big reasons I'm finding this so easy is because my mixing container is NOT my salt water storage container. So I can pretty much mix up a new batch of salt at will, and transfer the mixed salt out of the mixing container to the salt water storage container as needed. That way I'm not a slave to doing the work on a particular day. Sounds like that might be different for you, given what I surmise you are proposing.

RTMA · Sep 8, 2010

Hey Steve - That's RJ posting :lol2:

rjinct · Sep 9, 2010

RTMA said:
Hey Steve - That's RJ posting :lol2:

RJ stands for "Random Joe"

scolley · Sep 9, 2010

Oops. Sorry guys. That's what I get for postin' too early in the morning!

Though I mixed up my RJ with my J, the response remains the same I'm afraid. Wish it were otherwise.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

scolley · Oct 10, 2010

Well, I've been using this stuff for over four months now, and my experience has been consistent... the growth on SPS has continued at the brisk pace that started when I switched to this salt. Corals all happy.

I have had some minor thin films of algae on the glass lately though. However, I also noticed that I've allowed the TDS on my RO/DI water to go from 0 to 1. So, maybe that's at the root of that little problem. With all water filters swapped out now (overdue) I'm looking to see if that changes.

The ESV mix has yet to create any form of residue, unlike my last salt. My salt mix remains crystal clear, the container remains sparklingly clean.

As expected, I continue to go through more two-part than I'm used to. There's just less calc/alk in this mix than in my old salt. Though I'm sure the accelerated growth of my SPS is a major factor too. All the same applies for Mg. I'm going through more with this salt.

One last thing that's odd... using the ESV instructions, the mix continues to mix to a salinty to around 1.023, when the instructions say it should be 1.256. So I always have to add 1/2 cup more salt than the instructions call for. Weird. Only good explanation I have is that the volume of my water that I'm mixing with is more than I think, and as a result use too little salt. But I don't thinks so. I'll tackle that in my next post...

scolley · Oct 10, 2010

I'm assembling a new mixing station, and it has allowed me the opportunity to get a REALLY accurate measure of my water volume. It's a big rigid plastic tub from USPlastics, approximately 15 gallons in total. It fills from a line from my RO/DI setup, and stops with a float valve. So the volume of RO/DI water going into it should be very consistent. Here's what I did to measure that volume...

I took a reference brass weight of 200g, and measured it on my small 650g (max) scale. It measured within 0.2 g of 200, so I figured it was close enough for this.

Then I got a plastic container, put it on th scale and zero'ed out the scale, making the bucket appear to weigh zero. Then I added water from the mixing tub to the plastic container on the scale until I had 500g. I added that water to a larger bucket (roughly 2 liter) and repeated the 500g water weighing until I had 2,000g in the bucket. Since water weighs 1 kilogram per liter, I marked the spot on the bucket as the 2 liter mark.

Then I proceeded to continue emptying my RO/DI tub with 2 liter bucket, recording buckets removed as I went, until the tub was empty. It took quite a few 2 liter buckets - a PITA. Then it was just a matter of adding up all the buckets removed, and converting liters to gallons. Easy peasy!

Now I KNOW I know how much water my plastic tub holds, give or take a very small margin of error - likely no more than 2 percent. Probably less.

So I used ESV's instructions to determine the quantities needed of the four ESV salt components. I mixed them all up - as per instructions - and guess what the water tested to? The 1.0256 ESV's instructions say? No. It was the same thing I always have gotten when I use their instructions... 1.0225. (Actually I usually get, 1.023, but this was REAL close)

Not wanting to believe ESV's instructions wrong, I took a sample of the water to my local reef shop. And what did they measure it at? 1.023.

So, since I've gone through painstaking container measurement with two different containers, and with both me and my reef shop getting dramatically similar readings, and with four months of needing the same additional amount of salt (beyond what the instructions call for), I'm forced to conclude that ESV's instructions are incorrect. Or that my batch of salt is somehow less "salty" that it should be.

I love the salt. But it does definitely appears to mix on the less saline side when used as directed.

zhangg3 · Oct 10, 2010

Steve, do you have a link to the tub on usplastics? I assume it is food grade and will not leak anything back into the water?

scolley · Oct 10, 2010

Here's a link to the tubs.

I'm assuming they'll be ok, sine they're approved for limited food use. Hope so... Gotta be better than the Rubbermaid trashcan I use now.

And they're quite rigid and strong - stackable, which was important to me. I've actually got two. The top one to mix in, the bottom to hold the mix (after turning a drain valve between them). The bottom has a submerged pump (actually a Tunze ATO pump) to move water to the tank. Since I do small water changes automatically, once I've mix a batch and drained it to the bottom holding tank, it gives me a two week window in which to refill he top with RO/DI and mix a new batch.

scolley · Oct 11, 2010

I messed up the link in the prior post. Here's a good link.

Taking the ESV Salt plunge...

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