Tang Question
- Thread starter Mikeeeee
- Start date
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
I think alot is going to depend on your aquascaping. And also the nature of the Powder blues.
I have 9 Yellow, 2 Blue, 1 Purple, 1 Achilles and 2 Chevron (1 very small juvie) - There is a great variance in size amoung the fish but there is very seldom any fighting amoungst them.
Maybe every 6 weeks someone has a torn fin.
But I have lots of rock work so they all have areas in the tank.
Dave B
I have 9 Yellow, 2 Blue, 1 Purple, 1 Achilles and 2 Chevron (1 very small juvie) - There is a great variance in size amoung the fish but there is very seldom any fighting amoungst them.
Maybe every 6 weeks someone has a torn fin.
But I have lots of rock work so they all have areas in the tank.
Dave B
caddydaddy
New member
I would be cautious of putting a sailfin and desjardini together.
Never tried it but it certainly could be a problem.
Never tried it but it certainly could be a problem.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Expect some pecking order stuff, but you may be OK. IMO & IME; two tangs of the same species (or even genus, especially Zebrasoma genus) are much more likely to constantly fight & maim than 3. You'll often see groups of YTs at a LFS; but never 3. You'll hear/read all sorts of stuff about what tro introduce and when. IMO & IME; I really don't think that matters much and is an "individual fish' thing. But I would add the two PBTs together. Also, because it is so difficult, I'd try to add the Achilles first.
Just my opinion, and assuming the tank is big enough; but I think a lot of "what works" in tanks with a lot of tangs is related to how much fish squabbling the hobbyist can put up with, especially at first. If a hobbyist can't stand some minor battles, this isn't a tank for him. I don't think this is cruel, just normal tang behavior on the reef as well as our tanks. Tangs come armed with a switchblade and some nasty looking cuts aren't that rare and to be expected. . But things usually settle down and the pecking order is established. But there are some fish that just need to be moved. Some are too nasty and some too wussy. A wussy tang in a tank like this has no chance; its tankmates won't leave it alone.
Just my opinion, and assuming the tank is big enough; but I think a lot of "what works" in tanks with a lot of tangs is related to how much fish squabbling the hobbyist can put up with, especially at first. If a hobbyist can't stand some minor battles, this isn't a tank for him. I don't think this is cruel, just normal tang behavior on the reef as well as our tanks. Tangs come armed with a switchblade and some nasty looking cuts aren't that rare and to be expected. . But things usually settle down and the pecking order is established. But there are some fish that just need to be moved. Some are too nasty and some too wussy. A wussy tang in a tank like this has no chance; its tankmates won't leave it alone.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Expect some pecking order stuff, but you may be OK. IMO & IME; two tangs of the same species (or even genus, especially Zebrasoma genus) are much more likely to constantly fight & maim than 3. You'll often see groups of YTs at a LFS; but never 3. You'll hear/read all sorts of stuff about what tro introduce and when. IMO & IME; I really don't think that matters much and is an "individual fish' thing. But I would add the two PBTs together. Also, because it is so difficult, I'd try to add the Achilles first.
Just my opinion, and assuming the tank is big enough; but I think a lot of "what works" in tanks with a lot of tangs is related to how much fish squabbling the hobbyist can put up with, especially at first. If a hobbyist can't stand some minor battles, this isn't a tank for him. I don't think this is cruel, just normal tang behavior on the reef as well as our tanks. Tangs come armed with a switchblade and some nasty looking cuts aren't that rare and to be expected. . But things usually settle down and the pecking order is established. But there are some fish that just need to be moved. Some are too nasty and some too wussy. A wussy tang in a tank like this has no chance; its tankmates won't leave it alone.
Just my opinion, and assuming the tank is big enough; but I think a lot of "what works" in tanks with a lot of tangs is related to how much fish squabbling the hobbyist can put up with, especially at first. If a hobbyist can't stand some minor battles, this isn't a tank for him. I don't think this is cruel, just normal tang behavior on the reef as well as our tanks. Tangs come armed with a switchblade and some nasty looking cuts aren't that rare and to be expected. . But things usually settle down and the pecking order is established. But there are some fish that just need to be moved. Some are too nasty and some too wussy. A wussy tang in a tank like this has no chance; its tankmates won't leave it alone.
sandwi54
New member
Agree with everything you said. However, lately I've kind of changed my mind about stocking. I used to think that as long as the fish don't break out in nasty fights, it's ok to keep them together. A couple of months ago (you may remember), I tried adding an emperor angel to my tank with an existing adult French angel, and immediately the French went to kill the emperor. The emperor did not fight back and simply tried to escape, but in the end got stuck to the power head. Ten minutes later I decided to remove the emperor, but even after I did that, the French sat on the bottom breathing really hard for more than an hour. I could see in the French's eyes that it was under a lot of stress, even though it was the aggressor. This tells me that when there are significant incompatibilities among any tank mates, both the aggressor and aggressee are stressed, and this does make sense. If I have to constantly worry that my food will be eaten by other people, I would be stressed as well.
As a result, I now stock my tanks in a way that ensures there are no chasings whatsoever. A little bit of squabble, such as when a fish gets driven out of another one's territory, is fine, but constant aggression is not allowed in my books anymore. I think this is the only way to ensure my fish live a nice, long life.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
You're right.
I re-read my drivel and didn't mean to sound like I tolerated constant squabbling. I just meant that stocking a tank with the fish in the original post would mean some initial aggression and the occasional nip or turf battle. Constant fighting is a sure way to lose fish and it bother's every fish in the tank.
Triton_Z
Member
Mike,
So far this conversation has left out how the tangs are introduced into the tank to begin. If this is a new tank and a careful introduction plan is put in place, this can improve your success. All at once or introducing the more docile, less territorial fish first is usually the recommended technique for a new tank. You can then bring in the larger bruisers like the powder blue and purple tangs.
If you have an established tank with some current tang residents, introduction/sizing/species become even more important, as its very unlikely the old folks will tolerate the newcomers.
Then this all leaves out the biggest variable in the conversation, the individual temperament of the tang, which from personal experience and being on reef central for awhile, can be very different than the "rules" or line up with their established species reputations. Plan and again be planned for the possibilities.
Specifically to your list, I think two powder blues and the sailfin/Desjardini will be pushing the odds against your peaceful success and would pick one of the two sets for your final stocking.
Sandwi, how did you introduce your emperor to your tank during this last dust up? Acclimation box or any division in the tank? I have had some success with placing a new fish in a clear acclimation box and after a day or so, the locals calm down ... It's not been with two alpha fish like a french and emperor in your example, which is a tough combo. Just curious and did you upgrade your tank size this last year?
So far this conversation has left out how the tangs are introduced into the tank to begin. If this is a new tank and a careful introduction plan is put in place, this can improve your success. All at once or introducing the more docile, less territorial fish first is usually the recommended technique for a new tank. You can then bring in the larger bruisers like the powder blue and purple tangs.
If you have an established tank with some current tang residents, introduction/sizing/species become even more important, as its very unlikely the old folks will tolerate the newcomers.
Then this all leaves out the biggest variable in the conversation, the individual temperament of the tang, which from personal experience and being on reef central for awhile, can be very different than the "rules" or line up with their established species reputations. Plan and again be planned for the possibilities.
Specifically to your list, I think two powder blues and the sailfin/Desjardini will be pushing the odds against your peaceful success and would pick one of the two sets for your final stocking.
Sandwi, how did you introduce your emperor to your tank during this last dust up? Acclimation box or any division in the tank? I have had some success with placing a new fish in a clear acclimation box and after a day or so, the locals calm down ... It's not been with two alpha fish like a french and emperor in your example, which is a tough combo. Just curious and did you upgrade your tank size this last year?
Mikeeeee
Member
Thanks for all the advise from everyone.
This will be a new tank build with transferring of 1 powder blue, 1 purple, 1 yellow, and 1 desjardini that all get along with each other well I a 110g for last 3 years now. I plan to add all the tang same time as I will be getting 1 powder blue, 1 sailfin, and 1 black shoulder from a friend that had these guys together in a 90g. Hopefully with in a weeks time after I will be buying an achilles from LFS and adding it. Then near future adding a black tang (thsy seem to be hard to come by for LFS) still looking.
Also along with these guys will be 6 different wrasses that are moving from the 110g.
This will be a new tank build with transferring of 1 powder blue, 1 purple, 1 yellow, and 1 desjardini that all get along with each other well I a 110g for last 3 years now. I plan to add all the tang same time as I will be getting 1 powder blue, 1 sailfin, and 1 black shoulder from a friend that had these guys together in a 90g. Hopefully with in a weeks time after I will be buying an achilles from LFS and adding it. Then near future adding a black tang (thsy seem to be hard to come by for LFS) still looking.
Also along with these guys will be 6 different wrasses that are moving from the 110g.
sandwi54
New member
Yes I did upgrade my tank from 225g to 375g late last year. I had to because my French was simply getting too big and looked funny in a small 6' tank. The 24" tank width was also interfering with its turning.
In the end I removed the French for a week, rearranged the rocks, and re-introduced both fish at the same time. It's been almost 8 weeks now and there's still no aggression. You may see my original thread on this below.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2234712
orangegoby
New member
it can be done with some careful maneuver and some luck too, of course.
sandwi54
New member
Thanks! It's kind of my dream tank!
However, you know how it is like with every new tank. It looks big at first, but after a few weeks it starts looking small. For some reason, after having this 8' tank for two months, it is looking "just alright" for my French angel, even though I'm sure he's still enjoying the extra space he didn't have in my 225g.
It's really not that much work to set it up, even though it will use up an entire week of vacation. Also, the tank weighed 500lbs and it took 6 people to put the tank onto the stand
Ostara
Keep Calm and Reef On
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Mixing tangs is almost always going to result in some initial bickering and squabbling. Once the hierarchy is established, this settles down into the occasional mild dispute. In my experience careful planning is one of the biggest aspects to mixing them successfully. In my tanks I typically try to create the hierarchy myself by purchasing the show specimen at the largest size and introducing it first, then introducing very small specimens in the order of species that are typically more docile to species that are typically more aggressive. I haven't had an issue with this method so far.
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