What tangs are most resistant to lateral-line disease? I know all tangs are sort of magnets for it, but I was wondering which ones put up more of a fight. I recently had a yellow tang get ravaged by LLD to the point where his dorsal was 3/4 gone. My water quality is good and he had a variety of algae to eat including seaweed I placed in the tank. The guy at the local fish store said Naso tangs are less susceptible to LLD.
Tangs least susceptible to Lateral-Line Disease
- Thread starter Noobeef
- Start date
I just had a similar email conversation with somebody - neither of us recall seeing an orange-shoulder tang with HLLE. Naso literatus seems fairly resistant (but not all members of that genus are!). I don't recall seeing a mimic tang or a tomini with it before - but sample size probably has a lot to do with this, I've only worked with perhaps 4 mimic tangs in the past 25 years, not a very large sample size.
Jay
Jay
oct2274
New member
if you are putting tangs in your tank and HLLE is progressing instead of regressing than you either have water quality issues or are not feeding them properly. If that is the case I would not recommend you put any additional fish in the aquarium till you figure out what is going on.
I'm not sure if it's a contributor, but you could check for stray voltage too?
I'm not sure if it's a contributor, but you could check for stray voltage too?
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
I'm far from an expert, but from reading I've done you are correct with your 3 possibilities, and can add carbon to the list. From what I know, there's no one DEFINITE cause, it's all speculation.
oct2274
New member
there is a strong possibility we don't know all of things that might also cause it.
I bought two tangs that had HLLE at the LFS. Both cleared up after a few months in my aquarium. I'm a sucker for fish that look like they have been treated badly
I made sure to feed them a wide variety of pellets, flakes, frozen, and various algae sheets. All of my fish always loved Julian Sprung's SeaVeggies Purple Seaweed the best for some reason..........
During that time I did run carbon, but I didn't run carbon all the time.
I bought two tangs that had HLLE at the LFS. Both cleared up after a few months in my aquarium. I'm a sucker for fish that look like they have been treated badly
I made sure to feed them a wide variety of pellets, flakes, frozen, and various algae sheets. All of my fish always loved Julian Sprung's SeaVeggies Purple Seaweed the best for some reason..........
During that time I did run carbon, but I didn't run carbon all the time.
HLLe might also be cause from stray vlotage. Try using a ground probe. I have a yellow tang in my tank that has HLLE, he has been in there for a week and is defintely looking better, The yellow is much brighter and he is everywhere eating everything, should be healed up soon. From my 16 years in the hobby I have noticed the Zebrosma family has the highest rate of HLLE, even in some LFS I see it in their display tanks and those are usually the fish that have them. My buddy is trying to heal up a purple he got from a LFS for 50 bucks, the owner said no way he could heal him up, but it is looking better.
I know those are a couple of the reasons people think LLD can pop up. All I can speak of for certain is the water quality issue. My tanks water is zero's across the board with the proper ph and alk. Now the nutrition on the other hand"¦ there was enough algae in the tank (he ate some macro I liked ) along with some supplemental seaweed sheets on a clip that I thought his diet was diversified enough. I've never heard of the stuff you mentioned in your post further down the thread. (Julian Sprung's SeaVeggies Purple Seaweed). I've also read of some stuff you can soak seaweed in or broccoli in in order to get them more vitamins. Anyone used any of these products?
cakemanPA
New member
When I upgraded my tank, my purple tang was starting to show signs of HLLE. I fed more seaweed than normal and soaked it in selcon and garlic. Signs of HLLE gone in a couple of weeks. So maybe the stress of the move or I wiped out/hid a bunch of the algae on the rocks? But my Sailfin not my Naso ever showed any signs. Go figure!
op's question... Naso's are supposed to be HLLE resistant or so I have heard
op's question... Naso's are supposed to be HLLE resistant or so I have heard
Western_reefer
Reef keeper
What about Yellow Foxface? How resistant are they?
A yellow Foxface is not a tang, I personally have never heard of other fish besides Tangs getting it, And a few angels, usually larger ones. Try feeding frozen Romaine also. There is a lot of vitamins in Romaine but you have to freeze it in order for the cell walls to burst. The tangs can't digest the cellular walls and get no nutritioun unless frozen.
aquaph8
Love The Fish
This has been debated many times. I honestly believe its more complicated than just carbon use or stray voltage. I've battled every aspect and speculation thrown out there and have never won. My fish are very well fed, so I would also rule out diet. I would agree these things could be causing some symptoms but maybe there just bringing out something underlying. I don't know, just a thought.
I know this is going to sound a bit out of left field, but a point worth pondering IMO...
In the freshwater hobby lateral line occurs also. And it also occurs in some species where in other species 'hole in the head' disease occurs. Enough work has been done on this that many believe that these are slightly different manifestations of a common root problem, manifest differently across species.
Discus are a FW fish that can be prone to hole in the head. Until recently discus were rarely kept in freshwater planted tanks, the volumes of ammonia output from discusc generally created significant algae problems in algae profileration. But recent changes in both f/w discus and plant husbandry has removed that obstacle for skilled hobbyists. And guess what unexpected benefit that new environment - discus and plants in the same tank - produced? Complete elimination of hole in the head disease!
So IF you are willing to assume that is due to the addition of plants in their tanks, and IF you are willing to accept the thinking that lateral line and hole in the head are the same disease differentiated by species, and IF you can make the BIG leap (as I do) that the disease has the same root cause in salt as it does in fresh, THEN the logical conclusion is that the problem - as stated previously in this thread - is most likely primarily dietary. And that being a defeniency of some form of vegetable matter.
Good luck.
In the freshwater hobby lateral line occurs also. And it also occurs in some species where in other species 'hole in the head' disease occurs. Enough work has been done on this that many believe that these are slightly different manifestations of a common root problem, manifest differently across species.
Discus are a FW fish that can be prone to hole in the head. Until recently discus were rarely kept in freshwater planted tanks, the volumes of ammonia output from discusc generally created significant algae problems in algae profileration. But recent changes in both f/w discus and plant husbandry has removed that obstacle for skilled hobbyists. And guess what unexpected benefit that new environment - discus and plants in the same tank - produced? Complete elimination of hole in the head disease!
So IF you are willing to assume that is due to the addition of plants in their tanks, and IF you are willing to accept the thinking that lateral line and hole in the head are the same disease differentiated by species, and IF you can make the BIG leap (as I do) that the disease has the same root cause in salt as it does in fresh, THEN the logical conclusion is that the problem - as stated previously in this thread - is most likely primarily dietary. And that being a defeniency of some form of vegetable matter.
Good luck.
At the risk of losing points for having brought forward a novel idea (to this forum) and also to diminishing a point that I have been preaching in F/W forums... I must admit that YES, there could easily be more oxygen in those environments!
Generally speaking (this is observation - rather than fact - based, discus care requires a rather high degree of oxygenation, as opposed to many more "tolerant" freshwater fish. So in the care of an "advanced" hobbyiest the oxygen levels (artificially induced) would not necessarily exceed that of planted tanks (photosynthetic respiration induced), one also has to consider that hole in the head was rarely a problem for "advanced" discus hobbyists. It was always assumed - supported by my recent planted tank observations - that the problem was dietary, and that poor hobbyists were not providing proper nutritional needs.
However, your question of oxygen raises a STONG point worth exploring IMO. It could be that tangs in algae filled tanks are less inclined to lateral line not because of the vegetable matter in their diets, but because of the increase O2 levels in their environment due to algal respiration.
Good call!
Generally speaking (this is observation - rather than fact - based, discus care requires a rather high degree of oxygenation, as opposed to many more "tolerant" freshwater fish. So in the care of an "advanced" hobbyiest the oxygen levels (artificially induced) would not necessarily exceed that of planted tanks (photosynthetic respiration induced), one also has to consider that hole in the head was rarely a problem for "advanced" discus hobbyists. It was always assumed - supported by my recent planted tank observations - that the problem was dietary, and that poor hobbyists were not providing proper nutritional needs.
However, your question of oxygen raises a STONG point worth exploring IMO. It could be that tangs in algae filled tanks are less inclined to lateral line not because of the vegetable matter in their diets, but because of the increase O2 levels in their environment due to algal respiration.
Good call!
Steve,
HITH in discus and oscars doesn't have the same progression as HLLE in marine fish. In discus, it can routinely be cured by feeding the fish metronidazole. The presumption is that Hexamita protozoans in the gut become prolific and take up too many nutrients that the discus needs. Using metro on marine fish does NOT cure them - thus a different cause is at work. The only things that has been shown to be an active cause of HLLE in replicated studies is the use of lignite carbon at a rate of around 1g / liter or more and ozone use.
Regarding plants and oxygen levels, there is no correlation there, reverse phase photosynthesis takes up O2 at night, so its a wash. Ozone use has the ability to really boost O2 concentration in water, but it has been shown by one researcher to actually cause HLLE in some instances.
HLLE affects more than just tangs, here is a list of fish families that I've seen it in (not every species, but at least one per family):
Acanthuridae
Blenniidae
Centrarchidae
Ceratodontidae
Chaetodontidae
Cichlidae (HITH)
Gadidae (possibly different, more like HITH)
Grammatidae
Haemulidae
Labridae
Lutjanidae
Muraenidae
Percichthyidae
Percidae
Plesiopidae
Pomacanthidae
Pomacentridae
Protopteridae
Scorpaenidae
Serranidae
Jay
HITH in discus and oscars doesn't have the same progression as HLLE in marine fish. In discus, it can routinely be cured by feeding the fish metronidazole. The presumption is that Hexamita protozoans in the gut become prolific and take up too many nutrients that the discus needs. Using metro on marine fish does NOT cure them - thus a different cause is at work. The only things that has been shown to be an active cause of HLLE in replicated studies is the use of lignite carbon at a rate of around 1g / liter or more and ozone use.
Regarding plants and oxygen levels, there is no correlation there, reverse phase photosynthesis takes up O2 at night, so its a wash. Ozone use has the ability to really boost O2 concentration in water, but it has been shown by one researcher to actually cause HLLE in some instances.
HLLE affects more than just tangs, here is a list of fish families that I've seen it in (not every species, but at least one per family):
Acanthuridae
Blenniidae
Centrarchidae
Ceratodontidae
Chaetodontidae
Cichlidae (HITH)
Gadidae (possibly different, more like HITH)
Grammatidae
Haemulidae
Labridae
Lutjanidae
Muraenidae
Percichthyidae
Percidae
Plesiopidae
Pomacanthidae
Pomacentridae
Protopteridae
Scorpaenidae
Serranidae
Jay
jjk_reef00
New member
I think my Naso was showing very slight signs of LL when I ran carbon with ozone. For some reason he is a picky eater and only eats nori and NLS pellets regularly. As others have mentioned diet is very important. I soak all my food in vitachem and selcon. I also try to fead a wide variety of frozen cubes, pe mysis, various types of fresh chopped seafood, etc.... If I would have to pick one tang (that maxes out under 14") to be the least susceptible to ll I would pick an orange shoulder tang because IME they will eat anything you put into the tank. Mine aggressively eats everything I've listed above and more.
Thanks Jay. I thought about that before I posted, but I'm not sure I'd call it a wash. Here's why - First, over a 24 hour period the overall plants have a net intake of carbon. So if that's from CO2, I presume (don't know) that that implies a net output of O2.
But more important, the excess of O2 caused by plant respiration is indeed in the daytime... which happens to be when most fish can make better use of it. That as opposed the night when they are generally dormant, in low O2 demand states.
Either way, I would not call it a wash, since the fish can spend a large part of their environment in a high O2 environment. Many things that are therapeutic to animals are not constant events, but benefit is incurred through regular repeated occurrences. That could be the case here.
But with all that said, upon reflection... I seriously doubt algae output of O2, even for the active portion of a fish's day, could make that much of a difference. If only because that would have to be one seriously algae choked tank to make much of a difference in O2 levels. And as far as the Discus correlation goes, I realized that you don't see hole in the head disease in discus tanks that are even "sparsely" planted. Again, not much of a difference in O2 for a few measly plants. So I doubt O2 is the key.
But if that's so... all the O2 discussion is moot. But I did not know Hole in the Head was hex. Thought it was different in fact. And an say that I've had discus - in planted tanks - that had what appeared to have hex, but never HLLE. More points to ponder.
