Tank Crashed-possible flukes?

saltwateratx

New member
Hello everyone, here is my first post and it is a sad one to report.

I started a 105 gallon DSA reef tank approx 90 days ago. Setup consisted of DSA 105 Pro Reef tank, custom build 40 gallon sump/refugium, AquaC 240 Protein Skimmer, Eheim 250w heater, Eheim return pump, dual Koralia fans(1500gph), Current USA 48-60" Marine LED light(recently acquired MH setup), BRS filter socks, 2" bottom of caribsea bahama oolite sand, 70lbs of cleaned live rock from lfs, 50 fiji dry/live rock from BRS, 30lbs of caribsea life rock, 2" refugium with fiji miracle mud, filter and carbon sacks in sump.

I ran everything for 30 days while monitoring PO, PH, NO, CA, KH, Salinity and water temperature. Levels were very consistent with RO water changes every 2 weeks- PO.25ppm,PH7.8-8.2,NO-0-1.0ppm,CA440-460ppm,KH-10dkh,salinity1.025-1.027, water temp 79-80

After 30 days I started to add a few fish(2 green chromis, 4 crabs(forget the names), 5 hermit crabs, 5 snails which I seem to have lost one green chromis within 4 days and the other lived for about 3 weeks.

2 weeks after I added the green chromis I added to my tank 2 ocellaris clowns and a cardinal and for two weeks continued to monitor the health and water conditions. Water conditions seemed to be good with the same water readings after 30 days. I even took my water to the lfs to have them test because I felt this was good to easy.

2 weeks later with good water conditions, fish thriving and eating I decided to get a male/female pair of bluethroat triggers, six line wrasse, peppermint shrimp, 2 polyps corals and a frogspawn coral. Again, testing water perimeters everything seems to be in little at this time with consistent water changes(about 10g each time) I did have an increase in salinity to 1.029 and during this time I had noticed my wrasse after a 4-5 days in the dt started to look sick and started trying to jump out of the tank. He died within an hour after starting to do that. Every other fish as this time seems to be loving their new home and with a water change salinity came down to 1.024.

Another 2 weeks later, I decided to add another fish and picked up a foxface and got him in the tank. Again, all levels at this time were PO.25ppm,PH7.8-8.2,NO-0-1.0ppm,CA440-460ppm,KH-10dkh,salinity1.025-1.027, water temp 79-80 as mention above so I felt my tank was doing really good and the wife and kids wanted the anemone for the clowns. The next weekend I pick up a green bubble tip anemone and stick it in the tank.

After monitoring for another 2 weeks and all water conditions staying the same, I was at the lfs and say a awesome naso tang. Something that I had always wanted to I picked it up and put it in the tank on this last Saturday.

Up to this point the fish have all been eating great(mysys and other frozen foods), protein skimmer doing what it is supposed to do and all water conditions that I had been testing have been in a good range. I've been washing my filter socks with extra rinse in bleach only(small amount).

So Sunday, I was talking to my family and friends that were wanting to come check out the tank and I was open to inviting to show off what I had put together and it was an awesome display.

Then Monday comes, we noticed the female trigger started looking like it had fin rot so I head down to the lfs and pick up their suggested api fin rot medicine and start treating my entire dt. 20g water change and added the medicine after turning off the protein skimmer, removing filters and carbon in the sump. Thinking I might have caught it early, I was wrong.

Tuesday, female trigger looking worse, tang is missing and cannot locate it until I find it later in the day it apparently jumped out of the back of the tank through the canopy and landed on the floor. Will this was discouraging, I had a bigger problem with what I thought was fin rot circling the tank.

Skipping ahead to Thursday, all the fish had got a slimy coat, were showing symptoms of ick with fin rot and have died. So basically, from Monday to Thursday I lost 2 clownfish, 1 cardinal, 2 triggerfish, 1 foxface and 1 tang.

Now, I know moving forward that a qt is a must and will be setting this up this weekend but what in the heck happen to my fish in 4 days. Corals seems all to be ok(needing more light which is why I got a mh setup). I did start treating the dt with prazipro on Wednesday but it was already too late.

The fish were all acting as it they were gasping for air, fins were shredding, started getting glassy eyes and some started to form some red areas around their gills. The only think that I can find or see is that somehow one of the fish added to the tank was infected with flukes at the lfs and ended up laying eggs in the dt and wiping out my entire collection of fish.

Any one with any thoughts, experience with possible flukes or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This was a very expensive learning experience and I hope using a qt in the future will save me from ever having to deal with this again.
 

Attachments

  • tank.jpg
    tank.jpg
    22.8 KB · Views: 7
  • dottie.jpg
    dottie.jpg
    54.8 KB · Views: 5
My first suspect is ammonia poisoning. You have to many fish for that size tank and way to fast. Its also possible a disease came in with one of the additions and with ammonia and over crowding, it took hold extremely fast and killed.

You need to slow way down with additions and at this point, not knowing for sure what your tank may be infected with, you should go without fish for 72 days to kill anything that might be in the tank. Get a proper QT setup and get one or two fish at a time and QT for 8 weeks. Go to the fish disease forum and read all about QT and diseases.

I'm sorry you have had such a bad start, consider it a lesson and move on.
 
In my readings on this forum (sticky threads at the top) I've encountered some example timelines of how to add fish to the tank. I would agree with julie180 that you added too many fish too fast and it could have exceeded your tanks capacity to process all the excess nutrients. Your salinity situation sounds sketchy too. Do you have an auto-top off? Do you top off with freshwater? I know that's a basic question, but there are some newbies that miss the important fact of topping off only with freshwater.

Anyways, I don't think any of those things ultimately killed your fish. To me, it sounds like adding all those fish over a short time brought in some nasty pathogens into the tank. This is a common first lesson for many new tank owners who try adding fish without quarantine. There are some experienced tank owners who don't quarantine and do just fine, but in general if you don't quarantine fish, these types of things will happen. Tough lesson my friend, I am sorry and hope you have more success in the future.
 
i agree with julie180. quarantine all new arrivals. also it's better to do research on fishes before buying them. some fish like naso tang will outgrow the 105G tank pretty fast. you won't be able to keep them long term. they'll become more aggressive, and stressed which leads to lowering of immune systems. fish with weak immune systems will get diseases easily. i'm sorry for your loss. good luck.
 
so sorry for you losses. Horrid way to learn, agree 100% with everything above. As a newbie myself you are very excited and do ïmpluse buy". make sure you research & QT any further additions. A nasso should never have been sold to you in the first place. Over stocked to fast and it took hold. Leave fallow for the time recommended and start slow next time. Good luck.
 
All, thanks for the advice. I was at the lfs and going to pick up an ammonia test kit and was told it really wasn't needed since I was testing for Nitrates. Sounds like I may need to evaluate that store a little more since some of their advice may not have been the best. They did rec the qt and I should've have done that.

nmotz-I'm using an ato system with ro water only, no salt. When i initially setup the ato, i was using ro water with salt mixed at @1.020 which is when I realized my first mistake. This obviously caused the salinity to spike up to 1.029

So looking at the picture of the trigger, is the thought that ammonia killed the fish due to too many too fast or is there a possible disease infection from bringing a fish in? From everything that I read, flukes seemed to have all of the symptoms that my fish were showing. I guess I'm just surprised that within 4 days that all the fish would just die all at one time.

1st 20g qt going up tomorrow and will start the cycling process. I was about to setup another 65g dt in my office to host puffer and lionfish but I guess I will put that on hold for a bit as I try to work through this.
 
They told you you don't need to test for ammonia?!?! :angryfire:

I was standing in line to purchase the ammonia test kit and was told it really wasn't needed. I should have trusted my instinct and research. Expensive lesson but I will recover
 
I know this is basic, but what tests/devices are you using to determine your parameters? From what you are mentioning those fluctuations are a bad sign. I hope you are not using a hydrometer for salinity... or API test kits for your other parameters...
 
As others have noted, you've made a few 'rookie' mistakes. First rule of reefing is that nothing good comes from rushing. You added way too many fish too quickly. I think ammonia is a distinct particularly as you observed reddened gills. I doubt the issue was flukes, though it certainly could have been some other parasite like uronema or velvet. Both of those kill quickly. I'm unfamiliar with API fin rot medicine, but assuming it's an antibiotic of some kind, that may have exacerbated ammonia problems by killing off the bio-filter.

At this point I'd fallow the tank for 72 days, but ghost feed it so you can cycle it properly. Setup and run all new fish though a quarantine tank - this takes a bit of time and 'forces' you to add fish more slowly. Also, do a bit of research on appropriate tank sizes for fish. Naso, for example, is not a good choice for a 105.
 
I know this is basic, but what tests/devices are you using to determine your parameters? From what you are mentioning those fluctuations are a bad sign. I hope you are not using a hydrometer for salinity... or API test kits for your other parameters...

I'm using the API reef test kit. I started with the hydrometer testing salinity and also added the hydrometer to verify my salinity readings(these were all in line with each other). Is there a better kit for testing all of my water parameters? I was looking to move to a controller w/probes but after my initial $4000+ investment I was trying to hold off a bit.
 
I would move to the red sea kits. My API were never accurate.

I simply got the red sea master and reef kits to have all the needed tests...
 
I was standing in line to purchase the ammonia test kit and was told it really wasn't needed. I should have trusted my instinct and research. Expensive lesson but I will recover

You'll find many differing opinions on the internet on a variety of subjects, but not this one. Ammonia is the most toxic thing that naturally occurs in your tank and it is always being made, its up to you to make sure your filtration is getting rid of it properly. Nitrates are a signal that biofiltration is taking place, but it doesn't mean its taking place at a fast enough rate to keep the ammonia at a non-toxic level.

Essentially your primary job is to keep ammonia out of your tank. The fact that they told you not to get an ammonia test, knowing you're a beginner, and then selling you fish, large ones, every two weeks, is just awful. I'm sorry. I'm also a beginner, and I had to learn to take everything my LFS store says with a grain of salt, but they certainly made it clear to not add any fish until my ammonia and nitrites were safely at zero. And then I will not add any other fish for several weeks until I'm sure my biofiltration can process the new levels of ammonia being created.
 
Would the high ammonia level not kill off the corals and anemone? I would think the anemone would be affected as well it seems to be growing and looking great even with a sub par light setup.

I did take my water down to the lfs to have tested just to verify my readings and found they were to using the API test kits. I guess now I'm in a holding pattern for 72 days in which time I will setup and cycle the qt.
 
ay too many mistakes to list out but it sounds like marine velvet. Iche like symptoms but much faster and wiped out pretty much everything. Any remaining fish must be quarantined and treated and tank fallow for at least six weeks. You moved too fast, there are many reasons to take it slow. One is to never add fish faster than you can monitor for parasites prior to adding to tank.
 
I'm using the API reef test kit. I started with the hydrometer testing salinity and also added the hydrometer to verify my salinity readings(these were all in line with each other). Is there a better kit for testing all of my water parameters? I was looking to move to a controller w/probes but after my initial $4000+ investment I was trying to hold off a bit.

This is no big deal, I am 99% sure the ammonia is the culprit in your situation. Now on to your testing gear. To save tons of money and avoid frustration get a refractometer for quick and accurate testing of your salinity, hydrometers are never accurate, especially the plastic ones typically sold in fish stores plus you will have to pay attention and adjust the specific gravity in report with the temperature and the temperature the hydrometer was calibrated. It's a hassle you really want to avoid.
As for testing kits, I do have access to high precision and medical lab testing equipment but when I had to purchase "user end" test kits I ask people around here and I compared results. For API I found that the ammonia test kit works OK also if you are paying attention to the procedure you can get a very close to reality reading of the Calcium and dKh but they are never accurate. Phosphates and Nitrates are never close to real values. For the best results you should get Salifert test kits (I tested those by comparison) plus they are reasonably priced. Another option is Red Sea which are really nice, even a good $ deal if you buy the combo. Don't waste your time and money with API, you will spend not much more on Salifert and Red Sea but you will save your tank and enjoy the hobby.
 
I've went through this a few months ago it looks like it could be velvet. I learned the hard way set up a QT tank go fallow for 8-12 weeks get yourself a good master test kit. Avoid filter sponges, and yes adding to quickly is a big no no in this hobby, don't put in to many fish for your tank size, top with rodi water everyday or buy an automatic top off.

These are just SOME of the best practices to remember. You will recover from this a smarter, better hobbyist. Now it's just daily repetition and waiting. I'm sorry this happened
 
Back
Top