Tank drain question

electrotech

New member
Does height affect the amount of water through a drain line? I'm going to be using a glass-holes 1500gph overflow with dual 1.5" drains. 1 drain will be going to my fuge and the other to the gravity fed skimmer in the sump. I have the fuge stacked on top of the sump on a custom stand. Due to the plumbing in my house the main sewage drain is behind the tank and I have to locate the sump/fuge stand about 4 feet away from the tank. With the height of the fuge and the height of the tank there will only be 4 to 5 inches of vertical drop and 4 feet of length to the fuge. Do you think this will cause an issue?
 
Just one thing more however. If you convert to a siphon system, you CANNOT gravity feed a skimmer with the drain. You will need a skimmer that uses a pump. That said, even using a air assisted drain (durso, glass-holes, stockman, what have you) will mess with the drain system, and exacerbate the already annoying issues with them.

4" to 5" head height is going to give you a miserable flow rate. Transitioning horizontally 4' is going to mess with the operation of the drains as well, whether siphon or otherwise.

Overall, IME, you are going to have to rethink the whole concept. Seperate drains to seperate tanks, at seperate heights, gravity fed skimmer, zilch for drop, 4' away... no, this is not going to work as intended—save yourself the headaches and some money: put a sump under the tank, straight down, straight back up. "Fuges" are highly over rated, and are not as valuable as many would like to think.
 
I'd plumb it as a siphon and dry myself... nothing says you have to use their elbows.

one elbow up one elbow down…use a valve on the down turned line…voila you have a siphon…and it will flow considerably better, safer, quieter, and easier

The glass holes 1500 gph internal overflow has no elbows in it, nor is it large enough to allow elbows to be installed internally.
 
Well I already have the equipment all there is is plumbing so not much cost, I'll give it a try and see what happens, thanks for the info.
 
The glass holes 1500 gph internal overflow has no elbows in it, nor is it large enough to allow elbows to be installed internally.

It does have elbows with holes drilled in them for the outside though, which is what i meant. Putting any sort of normal plumbing fitting in their place means not being forced to use air assisted drains. I think the internal baffle plate would make the siphon pipe not draw air almost as good as a down-turned elbow, but it does make having the other pipe dry very hard... Not sure if there is a smart solution to that part of making a herbie.

I find the name (flow number) on the overflows a little strange, as i don't think most people would enjoy hearing 1500 gph running air assisted (if it even can do that).
 
It does have elbows with holes drilled in them for the outside though, which is what i meant. Putting any sort of normal plumbing fitting in their place means not being forced to use air assisted drains. I think the internal baffle plate would make the siphon pipe not draw air almost as good as a down-turned elbow, but it does make having the other pipe dry very hard... Not sure if there is a smart solution to that part of making a herbie.

I find the name (flow number) on the overflows a little strange, as i don't think most people would enjoy hearing 1500 gph running air assisted (if it even can do that).

The glass-holes 1500 overflow, stock out of the box will handle ~ 700gph before it drives the owner nuts... each 1.5" durso (that is all the drains are) will start acting up, just as any other open channel drain at ~ 350 gph. When we start talking about "Flexible Underwater Siphon Husher' ('F.L.U.S.H.') you have to sit back and say ok, somthing is not right here. Siphons are silent without a silencer, and the Glass-Holes overflow is not a siphon system. Glass-Holes is a lively fun company, but you can't beat the physics. I compliment you on taking a more considered view here.

The larger issue is the OP is not going to be able to do what he wants to do with this drain system, or any other drain system. Have to get past that first. Simply using Glass-Holes documentation tells us that their overflow system is not suitable for the OP's intended use. (Quoted so those who think I dream this stuff up, will see that I don't. ;) )

"This plumbing should consist of the minimum of fittings needed, and no valves, or fittings smaller than the pipe size of the kit you purchased. If you have a nano series kit, this would be 1” PVC plumbing all the way to the sump, for 700 and 1500, this is 1 1/2”, and for the 3000 kits, this is 2” plumbing. Do not combine dual drains. Avoid long horizontal pipe runs. Do not use insert (barb) adaptors in the elbows. Do not use anything other than PVC pipe or UltraFlex PVC pipe. The kits will not work properly with smaller or restricted plumbing!!!!"

Incidentally, the laminar flow rate of a 1" open channel is around 50gph; on a real good day, maybe a bit more...

The OP wants to run a 4' horizontal run, and use a gravity fed skimmer. The horizontal run is self explanatory; the skimmer is a restriction in the drain line... plus a double gravity feed to get to the return pump... Taking this the next step further, you don't put valves in an open channel drain, it makes the problems with them WORSE, you don't want horizontal runs in a siphon system (OF EITHER TYPE,) and you don't want to feed a skimmer from a drain line because it messes with the physics of the drain. Double gravity feeds are a nightmare to balance and keep balanced especially with unstable drain systems. Not to mention that the boxes with the kits are over-rated and too small to do anything with.

So before the OP commits to any drain system, he needs to re-evaluate what he is intending to do. My very direct recommendation is the OP take this back to the drawing board.
 
OK so I made some modifications to my design.

This was the original design V1. Long horizontal runs for main drain and return to tank.




In V2 I moved the sump under the tank and have relatively straight up and downs for the main drain and return to tank. Then add a second pump to send water up and over to the refugium which gravity drains back into the main sump.

Can I run this drain into the skimmer or should I add a 3rd pump just for the skimmer?





Clarification --> 90° elbows and straight pipe used for ease of drawing, I will use 45° elbows and spa-flex IRL.
 
This is closer to something that will work. A few things however...

A single larger pump will be more efficient than using two smaller pumps to drive the main system.

The skimmer needs to be on its own pump. First it will mess with the physics of the drain, and the flow requirements for the tank, are not the even closely related to the flow requirements of the skimmer.

You still end up with two pumps, but the pumps are better tasked.

Still, you need to get past the 'putting the cart before the horse' purchase of the glass-holes overflow, with which the boxes are too small, over-rated, and nothing can be done to improve them. They are dusros, nothing more, and since you are punching holes in the glass, you want to use a siphon system on both the main tank, and the 'fuge.' Siphon systems are more stable and reliable for this type of setup (for any setup actually.)
 
This is closer to something that will work. A few things however...

A single larger pump will be more efficient than using two smaller pumps to drive the main system.

The skimmer needs to be on its own pump. First it will mess with the physics of the drain, and the flow requirements for the tank, are not the even closely related to the flow requirements of the skimmer.

You still end up with two pumps, but the pumps are better tasked.

Still, you need to get past the 'putting the cart before the horse' purchase of the glass-holes overflow, with which the boxes are too small, over-rated, and nothing can be done to improve them. They are dusros, nothing more, and since you are punching holes in the glass, you want to use a siphon system on both the main tank, and the 'fuge.' Siphon systems are more stable and reliable for this type of setup (for any setup actually.)


So use a single large pump for return and split it off one to tank and 1 to fuge? Then use a small pump to run the skimmer.

I've used the glass holes overflow on this same set-up before when it was set up as a freshwater tank. I ran 800 gph through it just fine, never had a problem.

Say I was to change and go to a siphon drain how would you go about setting it up?
 
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