Tank Dying

I'm very sorry for your losses and current predicament.
Everyone believes that the metal valves are polluting your tank. But the temp spike up to 90F would have killed most all of my corals, and they would have died over the next 2-3 days. You said that you were not sure if the valves are "metal=stainless steel?" or brass. Brass is copper and zinc, both really toxic to aquatic life. Try to find out from the part# on the valves what metal it is. If it's not brass, you are probably OK to just redo the plumbing and be done with it. You mentioned that the pH was low and started using a carbonate supplement, did you not regularly check you Alk before? Just asking.
 
Just to be sure you are clear, polyfilter is a brand name of a flat white filter that is used to remove harmful chemicals from the tank.

You said you have one in your canister filter. Are you sure its not just a regular filter?
 
Copper levels....

Copper levels....

No, I thought I had polyfilter but didn't (I bought some this morning) I am going to change all the filters today after a water change.

Sadly I also bought a copper test kit. My copper is at .5- 1.0 ppm. 8*(

I am not really sure where to go from here. Is my whole tank going to 'cycle' again? Is the rock even viable for a fish-only tank? What can I expect (if anyone knows).

I just keep telling myself 'you live, you learn' but it doesn't seem to make me less ****ed...

Thanks for all the help guys. On the bright side of all of this, my husband will have a lot less to worry about when I go out of town for grad school in 9 months.
 
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Have you redone the plumbing?
It is fine for FOWLR and you could try a coral in a couple of years to see if the Cu has been metabolized to a reef-safe amount. At least the inverts are all behind you and you can concentrate on grad school for now. Is the Mantis still alive?
 
Not sure with the mantis. He only comes out every once in a while, I feed him, then he hides again for days. A few days ago he was eating frozen blood worms (he is still a little guy) like a champ and attacking the pipette and everything. I will wait and see.
 
Everything is cycling now. Ammonia is up super high, everything is super high actually. I can't imagine these fish are going to survive this. Should I move them to a hospital tank (I will have to set up)? If so, won't it do the same cycling?

I have polyfilter in the sump, new filters and media in the canister filter, and am doing water changes. Beyond that, I am not sure what else I can do to keep these two fish alive (the mantis is in his rock with the 'door' closed).

Are these fish already irreparably damaged? The ammonia started spiking two days ago, so they have been suffering from high copper for a week and now crappy everything! I am seriously considering giving them to my LFS just to get them somewhere healthy.

Anyway, as before, input is welcome and I am grateful.
 
Do not feed the tank w/ NH3 that high. If you cannot replace the plumbing, then yes take the fish and Mantis to the LFS or put them into a small tank where you can do WCs easily until NH3 is gone. Amquel may help for a couple of days. If you remove all decaying snails and siphon out detritus, you will probably only need to wait a few days for it to cycle--this is all hinging on the fact that the plumbing was replaced. The fish will eventually die from Cu poisoning.
 
you can do daily water changes on your hospital tank to keep it from cycling, but the easiest is to see if a lfs will hold your fish for you.
 
Update (and final post I am sure)

Update (and final post I am sure)

Well, levels of ammonia, nitrates, nitrites and such are dropping in my main tank. Copper is down significantly after using Cuprisorb (recommended by my local LFS). Another day or so and I think I will be able to put the survivors back into the main tank (they are currently doing much better in a hospital tank with daily water changes).

Out of everything in my tank, we have only three survivors: An Ocellaris Clown, my Mandarin Goby, and one little hermit crab (tough little guy). We sadly discovered our mantis dead yesterday.

What an amazing loss over just one brass valve. I have to say, I think this is the hardest way I have ever learned any lesson, ever.
 
Man, that sucks. How much copper can one little brass valve be pumping into your tank. I had a brass valve on a ato for years before I realized, and never had this problem. Sorry.
 
As porus as rock is, copper is not going to bind to the rock, it is probably mostly in the water and it may settle on the rock and substrate... Keep running your filters and carbon and you should eventually read 0 copper. At that point give a small cheap zoa frag a try or a snail or something to see if you are in the clear.

It may take a few months to get all the copper out of the system, but I don't think you will have to trash everything and start over...some may disagree. To be honest I wouldn't personally use your rock or sand in my tank...but you already have it running it won't hurt to try to salvage it.
 
I just thought I would post an update for anyone watching this thread. So, after three months of running the tank with poly and cuprisorb I had the copper down to almost zero. I put some Chemi-pure in the canister filter and the copper test now reads totally zero (like crystal clear water). Anyway, I decided to try a fish or two. They died. I cried (ok not really, but almost). I waited a few weeks, kept checking all of the levels and all was flawless. I thought maybe I should get advice from a fish store. Brought a bunch of water and they tested it. They said my water was perfect. She told me it was probably a fluke, and that the fish I got was a little sensitive anyway. Sooo...I tried another fish, and all is well again. I put in some snails...they are chomping down on the algae that has been growing since all of this started. I even added a few shrimp and a starfish (can you tell I am trying to get a cleanup crew going). Anyway, point is, everything is doing great. Levels are perfect with copper not rising one bit.

But do you want to hear the best part? I did a major clean/water change yesterday. After it was all clean and pretty I was sitting in front of the tank, just watching. Guess what I found? Feather dusters...like 8 of them...tiny. I also found a gorilla crab. Now neither of these things are particularly good news (well, the feather duster I don't mind), but it is just so crazy to see this life in here. I have not added a single thing to this tank besides the fish and snails and such. How the hell did that crab survive? I even pulled all the rock at one point, scrubbed everything down, sifted all of the sand (this was all when everything was dying), and that little guy still made it. He is a trooper. I don't think I will be getting rid of him...I am going to put him into my 30 gallon tank that will eventually be home to a mantis...then the mantis can decide if he wants him to live...

Anyway...this has been a hard painful way to learn, but I must say, I know A LOT more now than I did before. I have done so much research in the last three months that I might just be a freaking expert now (ok, not really, but you know what I mean).

So...thanks for everyone for helping me out with this drama...I hope to have a lovely tank in the coming months (but I am going to take it veeerrrrrrrry slow).
 
Ok, read this whole post. Not one mention of how the sump was built.

Did your husband or yourself install baffles into an aquairum or is this a new purpose built sump? Reason I ask is if you guys installed the baffles what silicone did you use. If you didn't use the GE type 1 or the aquarium silicone there is the problem and will continue to be. The type GE type 2 and most others contain an anti mold chemical that will nuke a tank in a heartbeat. And it won't show up on any test kit.

I doubt a copper valve could react so quickly.

BTW remove the gorilla crab with a quickness, bad news. Those things could survive a nucler bomb.
 
Yup

Yup

Blown76mav, the sump was built simply to connect my mantis tank to my 46 gallon main display, as well as increase water volume for both. The sump is 29 gallons, simple design, gravity fed with two return pumps. No extra parts or baffles. Simple plastic shelves in the sump for filtration with plans to make it a refuge one day. Only thing used was Christy's Red Hot blue (food grade) to connect PVC here and there. My husband, in his infinite wisdom (kidding honey) installed a heavy duty brass valve to control the flow from the main tank. Once the brass valve was installed all hell broke loose. Within a week, all coral/inverts were dead or dying. Tank started to cycle before I even knew the cause. Fish started to suffer (from ammonia or copper, take your pick). All the survivors were removed to a hospital tank and I cleaned my tank out of dead things and let it cycle. That is where the sad part ends and the slow recovery begins. But it was copper, no doubt about it.

Oh, and I know about the crab! I just find it fascinating that this guy survived all of this. I mean, seriously. He survived crazy high copper levels, I'm talking copper at about 2 ppm at one point, not to mention crazy high ammonia, nitrites, the works! Plus, I took all the rock out, scrubbed the crap out of it, which took hours, before I put it back in. While I don't want him in my tank, I seriously have to admire his will to live. The mantis tank is empty, I am going to put him (his rock and all) in there for now. Too much death in the last few months to cause more....

tkeracer619 I have been running cuprisorb since I realized it was copper. That and polyfilter. But I have to put a little plug in here, it wasn't until the addition of Chemi-pure elite into my canister filter that the levels reached an unmistakable 0. I have now taken out the cuprisorb (that stuff is expensive and doesn't last that long, especially after it has been regenerated) but still run the chemi-pure and polyfilter (along with regular water changes and near-obsessive monitoring and testing). No problems at all. In a year or two I might cut out the chemi-pure and give it a go with just poly, but I am going to be crazy cautious until then and go over on filtration. For now, it is working great and I have a thriving invert. community keeping my tank nice and clean. No coral yet, probably not for a while, but I am happy with fishies and inverts (I am even on the prowl for another mantis).

~Ashley
 
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So this "sump" is just a glass box with two return pumps with floating shelves? Got any pictures? There has to be another reason for such a quick reaction, there is no way a brass valve could react this quickly. Liquid copper could, was this 29 a new tank or something used that someone could have treated fish in before with a copper based medicine. If a product such as Mardel was used then it could be leaching from the seams and will never go away.
 
Blown76mav said:
So this "sump" is just a glass box with two return pumps with floating shelves? Got any pictures? There has to be another reason for such a quick reaction, there is no way a brass valve could react this quickly. Liquid copper could, was this 29 a new tank or something used that someone could have treated fish in before with a copper based medicine. If a product such as Mardel was used then it could be leaching from the seams and will never go away.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was the brass valve. Copper corrodes extremely quickly in the presence of salt water, especially at a balmy 80 degrees where we keep our tanks. Obviously you didn't read the entire thread, if you're suggesting that the copper will never go away. She just stated that she reads 0ppm and inverts are once again able to live in the tank.

Below is a link to brass valves before and after a 96 hour exposure to salt SPRAY.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=191279&page=1


To the OP: I'm so happy to hear that the tank is back to normal and that you have inverts healthy and cruising around. It is pretty amazing when you sit down and look at a tank you thought was dead to see life sprouting back out of the rocks....life is amazing. In the words of Dr. Malcom from Jurassic Park: "Life finds a way."
 
sslak said:
Yes, it was the brass valve. Copper corrodes extremely quickly in the presence of salt water, especially at a balmy 80 degrees where we keep our tanks. Obviously you didn't read the entire thread, if you're suggesting that the copper will never go away. She just stated that she reads 0ppm and inverts are once again able to live in the tank.

Below is a link to brass valves before and after a 96 hour exposure to salt SPRAY.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=191279&page=1


To the OP: I'm so happy to hear that the tank is back to normal and that you have inverts healthy and cruising around. It is pretty amazing when you sit down and look at a tank you thought was dead to see life sprouting back out of the rocks....life is amazing. In the words of Dr. Malcom from Jurassic Park: "Life finds a way."
Click to expand...


Obviously you don't know the difference between Copper and Brass. Different metals.......
 
Unless you and the OP live in a spot of the world where 96 hours makes a day, your info has nothing to do with what she said. She said the next day 24 hrs still not enough time for copper/brass to take affect.

She's going to continue to kill fish and waste money.
 
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