Tank Maturity and SPS Coral Growth

[Allmost]

I see what you mean, usually my tanks cycle by 14 days, and I stock corals then, and then fish a couple weeks later on [starting with algae eaters so I dont feed the tank] ... corals grow a bit, they actually get nice color, but they arent just "there" ... hard for me to put it in words

Jack points out something good, the amount of die off, and the biodiversity of the Live rocks ... for sure that makes a difference .... which can lower the amount of time it takes for the maturity to be met .... perhaps being from Australia, you have access to much better rocks than us, with minimal die off.

 

[biggles]

That is spot on!. I will admit it has taken me more than 10 years to come to realise that. But I realised this only after setting up my current tank. I was pondering nutrient flow and the nutrient cycle (ie in terms of nutrient buildup in the early stages, control phase during the mid, and the low nutrient point towards the end ie when we say a tank is mature).

Thanks for understanding the main point of my poorly expressed views Sahin. I am merely suggesting that the way and order of livestock additions to a new system would make life easier for both the reef keeper and the fish and corals if fish were the last or a much later addition rather than the first as and has always been the norm.

I see what you mean, usually my tanks cycle by 14 days, and I stock corals then, and then fish a couple weeks later on [starting with algae eaters so I dont feed the tank] ... corals grow a bit, they actually get nice color, but they arent just "there" ... hard for me to put it in words

Jack points out something good, the amount of die off, and the biodiversity of the Live rocks ... for sure that makes a difference .... which can lower the amount of time it takes for the maturity to be met .... perhaps being from Australia, you have access to much better rocks than us, with minimal die off.

I don't for a minute suggest you will experience the bio diversity i have at such an early stage with the use of dry rock and yes the LR i have added to my tank was loaded with life including SPS corals that are still alive and kicking despite going through a cycle. I know exactly what you mean by the corals not being 'there' and have experienced the same thing where you look at the tank one day and it feels like things have just 'clicked into place' at last. Thanks for replying mate and sorry if i gave you the impression i didn't value your opinion as i do.

Edit: I will point out that i did start a tank journal in the Reef Discussion forum to document my fish-less approach to starting a reef tank but it was universally ignored lol so excuse me for taking your 'post some pics' comment the wrong way mate. I gave up talking to myself in that thread despite wishing to share a very different approach that has worked very well for me and one that i feel would work well for many others who struggle with corals and learning to control their tanks water parameters. I might try again when i set up the new tank that is going to be added to the current system but it's not quite the same as it will benefit from the already established (i didn't say mature) system.

 

[JP SPS]

OK, if we are worried about nitrification and bacteria in a newly established tank, how much does Zeovit throw a monkey wrench into things? I know of people who added SPS a month after setting up a new tank usng zeovit and had success.

 

[sahin]

Thanks for understanding the main point of my poorly expressed views Sahin. I am merely suggesting that the way and order of livestock additions to a new system would make life easier for both the reef keeper and the fish and corals if fish were the last or a much later addition rather than the first as and has always been the norm.

You put your view across very well and I understood just fine mate. :thumbsup:

Edit: I will point out that i did start a tank journal in the Reef Discussion forum to document my fish-less approach to starting a reef tank but it was universally ignored lol so excuse me for taking your 'post some pics' comment the wrong way mate. I gave up talking to myself in that thread despite wishing to share a very different approach that has worked very well for me and one that i feel would work well for many others who struggle with corals and learning to control their tanks water parameters. I might try again when i set up the new tank that is going to be added to the current system but it's not quite the same as it will benefit from the already established (i didn't say mature) system.

What I have learnt so far, and even in the past 6 months, I wish I knew that a long time ago.

I will search for your thread. There is always something new to learn. :crazy1:

 

[kaserpick]

Edit: I will point out that i did start a tank journal in the Reef Discussion forum to document my fish-less approach to starting a reef tank but it was universally ignored lol so excuse me for taking your 'post some pics' comment the wrong way mate. I gave up talking to myself in that thread despite wishing to share a very different approach that has worked very well for me and one that i feel would work well for many others who struggle with corals and learning to control their tanks water parameters. I might try again when i set up the new tank that is going to be added to the current system but it's not quite the same as it will benefit from the already established (i didn't say mature) system.

I used to think this was a great approach (not that I figured that out on my own. I honestly don't remember where I received the 'going fishless advice'), but somewhere along the way, I lost this idea. I even remember Sahin expressing this point of view in one of my last threads and thinking, 'oh yeah, I used to do that'. Anyway, it's too late for me to go this route, but I think it's a great way to start the tank. I wish I would have gone fishless with my new tank.

 

[kpg007]

My thoughts on 'Tank Maturity and SPS Coral Growth'. I've started many tanks over the years and with the help of a few short cuts (using curred live rock purchased from other reefers is the best (minus the pests), Zeovit does help (using Coral Snow will help remove waste), but it can also hurt), I've had SPS growing in a new tank in days. But for the topic posted, a new tank as I've outlined will work fine for some SPS and fish, but not for others. A mature tank is one that can provide a stable home to corals and fish, take on new bioload with minimal flutuation, and withstand heat spikes, over feeding, a dead fish in a spot you can't get at and coral 'wars'. When its mature anything can happen and corals will still maintain color, and growth. As for time lines, slow and steady wins the race. Add a few coral, wait a bit, add a fish, wait a bit, then may be a couple more coral. Going slow allows you to enjoy your tank, and not have to worry about tank crashes.

 

[reefgeezer]

It is really about when stability is established. Tanks without fish or other heavy waste producing organisms can be made stable pretty quickly by experienced reefers. Add fish to the mix and there really isn't a timeline that could be applied. There are just too many variables. Personally, I like a lot of fish in my reef. It took over a year to get the tank stable enough for SPS while I was adding the fish.

It didn't help that I was constantly changing the way the system operated in that year. I think that's another variable to be considered. It seems to me that any change, even one for the better, delays stability.

 

[Allmost]

Wow that's amazing biggles ! Now that's the true live rock, not the smelly stuff that gets to us here. For sure a big variable deciding when tank matures. Most of the diversity I get in my tanks comes from the coral frags....

Sorry I misunderstood your post

 

[navyfishguy]

Weeks thanks to everyone that responded, I've been asked this question many times in my hometown forum and i never really had an answer other then your tank is new lol. This has helped me and i hope it helps sometime else also. I've been reefing for around 5 years now and i always add sps within 2-3 months with success, slowly of course and with some losses here and there. In fact i just started a biocube with dry rock and live sand about 2 months ago and i have already started to add corals and everything is fine. IMO, mainly because i know how to keep rock solid parameters, i have to do weekly water changes and dose mb7 but it works great, and I've never had a tank crash on me. Overall my tank looks great and i personally think its doing a lot better then some "mature" that I've seen. From reading the post it seems like experience far out weighs tank "maturity". Knowing what to expect and how to deal with adversity is the key to being successful in this hobby

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[NanoJosh]

Wow thanks great thread, for me I started in October with my first reef tank ever and wish I knew atleast half of what I know now my tanks params are finally stable and growth has exploded. Great posts I appreciate everyone's input and I just want to keep learning the day we stop learning is the day we should stop doing what we were learning about. So to say what I started to my experience so far is the 6 month mark. Happy Reefing!!

 

[alexander_ktn]

I agree with the notion that you do not have to wait forever to put corals in your tank.
If algae are the only thing in there to consume stuff, then you will fight them forever...

Another mistake many people make is to try 1 frag and wonder why it's being outcompeted by the much more numerous algae. I know analogies aren't always spot-on, but if you plant 1 piece of grass on your lawn you cannot expect there not to grow weeds. Same goes for tanks - put in 15, 20 frags before the (hair) algae are really established and take over.

 

[navyfishguy]

I agree with the notion that you do not have to wait forever to put corals in your tank.
If algae are the only thing in there to consume stuff, then you will fight them forever...

Another mistake many people make is to try 1 frag and wonder why it's being outcompeted by the much more numerous algae. I know analogies aren't always spot-on, but if you plant 1 piece of grass on your lawn you cannot expect there not to grow weeds. Same goes for tanks - put in 15, 20 frags before the (hair) algae are really established and take over.

+1 that has been my take on reefing since i've started

 

[Paul B]

I can't answer the question of when a reef is capable of supporting SPS corals or anything else but I do know that there is a lot of faith put into when a cycle is completed by the use of your $5.00 test kit. A cycle continues as long as the tank is running and constantly changes with the bioload. So to me, a cycle means nothing.
I feel the bacteria population and diversity is much more important and that will vary depending on where you get your livestock and where they get it. I personally add bacteria from the sea a few times a year and always have but I realize not everyone can do that.
So there is a lot I don't know, but what I do know is that a new tank, with new water looks lousy, is not very healthy, grows hair easily and has way more problems than a tank say 10 or 20 years old. Virtually all the problems with ich, algae and everything else on these forums comes from new tanks of a few years old. Why? I have no idea except what I said.

 

[alexander_ktn]

I agree with you, Paul. Bacterial "waste processing capacity" changes every day and adapts. No use cycling a tank with 5ml of ammonia per day when you only add a blenny after the cycle is done. The bacteria will die back to where they can exactly process the waste that is produced.

Virtually all the problems with ich, algae and everything else on these forums comes from new tanks of a few years old. Why? I have no idea except what I said.

That might well be so, but you must admit that the number of older tanks is so small that they are hardly representative.
The only just now getting (a bit) more popular method of refreshing the tank with new bacteria/live rock etc. every few years might well lead to more tanks getting older.

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

I agree with Paul B for the most part. These are very delicate systems we are running that need to be perfectly balanced to support the extremely sensitive creatures we are attemping to keep alive in our living rooms. For the most part the older the system the more time it has had to find this balance. Micro fauna play a very large role in this balance and can take several months to mature into beneficial numbers. There is no exact time or science to it. Even a hobbyist with years of experience can not ruch a reef tank. the system will let you know when its ready and if you try to do to much with it before its ready it will let you know as well.

 

[alexander_ktn]

For the most part the older the system the more time it has had to find this balance.

Yes, but it can also get more and more out of balance. You cannot expect a system to mature into a "coral garden" or balance itself towards being great for corals without putting lots of corals in there. Chances are that you will have either a barren wasteland or an algae farm after waiting for months before adding a coral, basically starting like if you put your first corals in earlier.

Micro fauna play a very large role in this balance and can take several months to mature into beneficial numbers.

This isn't true - bacteria and many microorganisms are very fast when it comes to adapting to higher bioload. That's how people get bacterial blooms when they add too much carbon etc. Or how after a few weeks with live rock your tank is full of copepods.
It takes time for the system to stabilize after each new addition, that's true, but that is true as well if you start adding your first corals after a year.

 

[Paul B]

That might well be so, but you must admit that the number of older tanks is so small that they are hardly representative.

The number may be small, but not that small and those small number of older tanks, don't really have any problems, I wonder why

 

[alexander_ktn]

Might be the other way around - those tanks with no problems get to be kept longer...

Edit: by that I mean systems that were able to get stability and the right balance.

 

[reefgeezer]

Should we consider water volume to bioload ratio when making statements about how fast systems can adjust? Adding a small fish to a 180 might not produce noticeable negative results. However, adding that same fish to a 40 gallon system might stress corals and other sensitive organisms. In both cases, the new pollution source and the increase in "microfauna" might be the same. The difference would be the dilution factor.

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

This isn't true - bacteria and many microorganisms are very fast when it comes to adapting to higher bioload. That's how people get bacterial blooms when they add too much carbon etc. Or how after a few weeks with live rock your tank is full of copepods.
It takes time for the system to stabilize after each new addition, that's true, but that is true as well if you start adding your first corals after a year.[/QUOTE]


When using dry rock and keeping in mind an almost 2 month initial cycle, yes this is very true. I set up a 180 at the end of January and I easily can count the pods on the glass, not very many at all. Then every time you add bioload you need time for your bacteria to catch up. I dont add more than 1 or two fish a month.

I just put a half dozen zoas in there a week ago to see how they liked the tank. In a month if I see soft coral growth I will add an LPS. It will be another two months at least before I add sps frags. Then another month to see growth.

I feel Ive been rushing and itll be all of 6 months from start before this tank is growing sps corals and Ive been growing corals for over 10 years.

If you try to rush a reef tank it will take you longer over all to get a nice balance.