Tank upgrade, set up, cycle and transfer

[AMAYEU]

In the process of a tank upgrade from 2 nano tanks at 12 gal each to a redsea max 130 at 34 gal. Lxwxh is 24"x20"x24".

I started this thread to ask questions as they come up. I first started reefing with a turn key plug and play setup. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Setup ?s
-Should I use eggcrate at the bottom of the tank then add sand? Phosphate issues from the crate?
-Rock first then sand or vice versa.

More questions to come.

Mike*

 

[Grant W]

I'd say no to the eggcrate as it will be very tough to keep becoming a nitrate trap.

 

[Reef Bass]

sand in tank. rock on sand. corals on rock.

 

[spieszak]

sand in tank. rock on sand. corals on rock.

I always add rock before sand... that helps for anything that burrows or moves the sand, because shifting sand under the rocks can make it unstable.

 

[zeroinverse]

Run a mechanical filtration after u put sand in to help clear the fine san dust that clouds up your water or else you'll have to wait an extra day or two for it to clear.

With filter, give it 8-16 hrs and your water will be much clearer. Otherwise it would probably take a bit longer.

(note: based on my 150gal I recently upgraded to)

As for eggcrate, I know NeptuneAquatics used it on the bottom of their 200+ gal setup.

Regarding nitrate trap. It depends on how deep your sandbed will be. Are you doing shallow sandbed? Or deep sand bed. If deep, then the eggcrate areas will actually be denitrification areas (convert nitrates to nitrogen gas). If shallow, then they will probably be areas of nitrification (converts ammo to nitrite to nitrate).

The reason for eggcrate is to prevent scratching glass bottom. I just used a hard plastic lighting panel sheet (instead of eggcrate).


If you plan to do consistent water changes (which you are probably used to with nanos), then the nitrate trap issue may not be a big deal.

If you plan to be lazier with your setup, then go deep sand bed, overskim, underfeed... To keep nitrates down.

 

[Reef Bass]

I always add rock before sand... that helps for anything that burrows or moves the sand, because shifting sand under the rocks can make it unstable.

I always add rock on top of sand, because it helps to stabilize the rock.

 

[Reef Bass]

And go with a shallow, frequently stirred or vacuumed sandbed.

 

[sulcata1619]

I have always cut 1 1/4 pvc rings to put under the sharp corners of rock. This keeps the rock off the glass. keeps the rock solid and stable. then cover with thin layer of sand.

If you have too much sand under the rock, a burrowing fish could undermine your whole aquascape. No Bueno!

 

[justin_cutri]

I made 3 large structures that sit right on the glass. Added crushed coral afterwards, did it that way to avoid rocks from shifting. Doubt it would leave any noticeable scratches if your gentle. And a fairly shallow bed about 1" easy to vacuum all the way to the bottom.

 

[GiantBen]

I put the sand in first, then the rocks. I nestle them down so that they are basically touching the bottom of the tank. I do it this way for two reasons:
(1) I like to stir the sand a fee times to get remaining crud out of it, and this is easier before the rocks are in
(2) It is easier to make sure the sand is relatively flat before putting the rocks in.

I also don't use PVC or eggcrate under the sand. I prefer a shallow sand bed, so this would not be practical, but I don't see it as necessary anyway. If th structure is stable, the rocks won't slide around. Scratching/breaking the bottom glass shouldn't really be a concern.

 

[AMAYEU]

Wow, so many comments and suggestions! Thanks everyone.

Went with rock first because I got anxious to get the tank wet after seeing the dry run of the aquascape. I did not use the egg crate for the base foundation. I ended using some travertine tile and luckily most of the rock had flat or cut bases. I was fearful of cracking the bottom of the tank and wanted to put something in place as a preventative measure. I also wanted to stop rock shifting.

I like the idea of the additional mechanical filtration, but do not have hob filter, ie aquaclear, but do have two of TLF reactors. Maybe I can set each up individually with a little carbon and gfo to help things out as well as clear the tank after the sand.

As for the sand, I intend use a shallow bed. This will force me to stir the sand regularly.

*Using store bought live sand of about 40#s. How much of my old sand should I seed with it? Or no seeding at all? Thoughts...

 

[zeroinverse]

I recall reading that the "live sand" in those bags only houses certain strains of nitrifying bacteria, but it is not really the dominant strains once in a running tank. It helps, but not as great as the nitrifying bacteria additives bottles/jars or just getting live sand from a running tank.

 

[zeroinverse]

http://americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html

I would point out that live sand does not add nitrifying bacteria in significant amounts to help jump start your nitrogen cycle nearly as well as live rock due to the fact of oxygen depth penetration. Also it should be noted that these high priced bags of live sand commonly sold primarily contain Heterotrophic Bacteria which are NOT the primary bacteria of nitrification. True nitrifying Autotrophic Bacteria will NOT live long in a sealed bag so the best you will get out of these pre-packaged live sand bags is some de-nitrifying anaerobic bacteria which in my opinion is not worth the price and one is better off just buying dry #00 oolite sand for much less.

 

[AMAYEU]

Is there a magic ratio of this old live sand to new bagged sand. My current running tank has about 3 years of sand but hasn't been well sifted or vacuumed.

 

[zeroinverse]

Btw: fellow reefers, correct me anywhere I am off base. We are all learning here.
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I quoted text from the article. Not my words, but words of original author.
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As for old to new sand ratio, when I went from my 90gal setup with 4" sandbed... To my 150gal, I scooped the top 1-2" of sand as the "aerobic" sand and then scooped the remaining 2-4" as "anaerobic" sand. Reason being that the bottom half of sand may contain hydrogen sulfates(sp?). I wanted to partially rinse out that sand so it would not make my new tank go toxic.

Hydrogen sulfate is the rotten egg smell & blackened sand look. It eventually defuses to air.

After rinsing the bottom sand, I put it into new tank, then topped it with the old "top" sand (which has all the spaghetti worms and other microfauna in it.

Then I added about another 1" of newly washed "dead" sand on top. They suggest only adding about 1" of new sand every week to allow organisms to move up through the new sand bed.

I did this all with the tank only 1/4 full. Then I slowly filled the tank with water. Helps keep the fine sand dust in the lower sand layers from getting kicked up into your water column (ie faster to clear water).

Not sure of that answers your questions.

 

[GiantBen]

To get my cycle going, I just grabbed a couple big rocks out of my current tank and tossed them on top of my aquascape. Once the cycle was rounding out I took them out.

 

[zeroinverse]

Your sandbed probably had tons of good nitrifying bacteria as well as your tank water etc. Since you son's care about denitrification (since you can mitigate that with water changes)... Your tank could be "cycled" quickly.

As long as your sand is kept moist, the bacteria should survive the trip. Even if you aquascape "dry". Just keep your live sand & live rock wet.

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I upgraded my tank in 1.5-2 days.

3 hours to breakdown tank and put fish/corals in holding tank. Live rock in rubbermaids (with water). Live sand (2 different layers) in their own containers (with water).

2-3 hours to move new tank into place, fill lower layer sand first (was rinsed to reduce/remove hydrogen sulphates). Pour higher layer sand on top. Add water to 1/2-3/4 full (live rock will displace water later).

10-12 hrs to Run mechanical filtration overnight to polish white cloudy water.

3-6 hrs to aquascape new design.
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[zeroinverse]

An additional idea you can use to add bacteria back into water is to run mechanical filter on old tank & let it become a "nitrate factory". Use the sponge in your new tank. Should help seed your tank faster with nitrifying bacteria.
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Btw, I put my corals in at about day 3 after upgrading to my new tank. Zoas, SPS, bubble tip anemone, frogspawn.

 

[AMAYEU]

Good info on adding the bacteria for the cycle.

Added 40#s of sand then forgot about too much flow on the TLF reactors.

About 1 teaspoon of gfo granular ferric oxide went on the sand bed not to mention some carbon. I can remove the carbon but should I be worried about the gfo getting mixed withe the sand. Plan on trying to get as much out by siphoning.

 

[AMAYEU]

Here's the progress.
Tank scaped with some leftover rubble to seed in the corner.

Put the rubble on the rock. Will take it out later.

Couple bags of this