Yes the numbers are off- even from post to post- much less the article. the statment "80% of the oceans reefs have died from ocean acidification and warming" False. Perhaps one could argue of the 20% of reefs that have declined 80% of those were caused by warming and acidification- but that is playing with numbers and trying to obsfucate or prove theories rather than the scientific method of disproving theories. The sad thing is ever aquarist knows that corals adapt to ranges and changes in temp and PH in their tanks that are 10x the amount the oocean has suffered. The reefs evolve,grow and recede. Animals not successful in the enviorment that exists are overcome by those that do. Some people can only keep mushrooms in their systems- some can keep sps- saying one tank- or one oceans species compliment is better than the other is mere judgement. Just like the earth has survived volcanos and everything else- it will survive humans. Conciousness does not imply dominion,and what you or I think makes no difference to the earth as a whole- no more than does the extinction of any organism. I am sorry you don`t like the tanked guys- I dont either-but they are not effecting anything. They are a tiny percent- and I have had no one come to me wanting to cram fish in a tank because of them. Just like none of my motorcycle buddies who watch orange county choppers have tried to put long forks on their bikes. Educate people about the reality and beauty of the ocean- that will encourage conservation. Telling of mass death and disbelievable %s is likely lowering your impact.
Tanked ... has got to go
- Thread starter macman7010
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macman7010
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I want to keep this thread on topic so it is not closed. The thread was started to discuss the morality, ethical implications or lack there of regarding the Animal Planet show Tanked. Though, you can't discuss morality or ethical implications in aquarium keeping and management without talking about environmental concerns. If you read the Ocean Conservancy report I linked to it was pretty clear. 20% of coral reefs worldwide are dead. Another 24% are dying. On average Earth loses 16% of worldwide coral reefs per year. Shark populations have dropped nearly 90% worldwide.
Does the human being have the right to destroy the environment around it through irresponsibility and lack of any real value for nature? Why should we destroy things around us, especially when we are totally aware of our destruction?
To bring this back into focus regarding the thread's initial purpose the Tanked situation raises further questions. Already ocean acidification which is a bi-product of excessive carbon dioxide in marine water is destroying reef ecosystems. Ocean warming, a bi-product of excessive carbon dioxide in our atmosphere is destroying reef ecosystems. Over fishing, gill-netting and long lining are destroying marine ecosystems. The last thing our world's oceans need is some outfit like the one featured in Tanked putting forth a take, take, take mentality to aquarium set-up and management.
Those folks stand right in the middle of this question. They are putting personal profit and the happiness of the wealthy before a properly set-up and managed aquarium system. As I stated before what I can see from watching Tanked is a complete disregard for any environmentally sustainable practice and a pursuit of profit. These same practices have gotten our planet where it is today ... a dying ocean ... failing environment ... rise in auto-immune and serious diseases possibly from seafood contamination with mercury ... the list goes on and on. The guys at Tanked are simply contributing to these serious problems. I assume if they keep at it and the very wealthy continue to employ large and out of control home aquarium systems as always the government will step in a regulate the industry.
Does the human being have the right to destroy the environment around it through irresponsibility and lack of any real value for nature? Why should we destroy things around us, especially when we are totally aware of our destruction?
To bring this back into focus regarding the thread's initial purpose the Tanked situation raises further questions. Already ocean acidification which is a bi-product of excessive carbon dioxide in marine water is destroying reef ecosystems. Ocean warming, a bi-product of excessive carbon dioxide in our atmosphere is destroying reef ecosystems. Over fishing, gill-netting and long lining are destroying marine ecosystems. The last thing our world's oceans need is some outfit like the one featured in Tanked putting forth a take, take, take mentality to aquarium set-up and management.
Those folks stand right in the middle of this question. They are putting personal profit and the happiness of the wealthy before a properly set-up and managed aquarium system. As I stated before what I can see from watching Tanked is a complete disregard for any environmentally sustainable practice and a pursuit of profit. These same practices have gotten our planet where it is today ... a dying ocean ... failing environment ... rise in auto-immune and serious diseases possibly from seafood contamination with mercury ... the list goes on and on. The guys at Tanked are simply contributing to these serious problems. I assume if they keep at it and the very wealthy continue to employ large and out of control home aquarium systems as always the government will step in a regulate the industry.
I agree- and do wish to apologise for being off topic. I do agree that the tanked show is not good-but I still maintain it has very little effect on the fish buying habits of the general public. Nemo on the other hand... When it comes to shows like this- there will be a percentage of PETA types that will be outraged- a similar percentage of people will perhpas belong to the more money than brains club and try it. The average person will just watch it for the entertaiment it is intended to be. If they see pretty fish and decide to set up a tank- they will get the proper enlightenment from their local professionals. People have enough common sense to know that just because something is on TV it is not reality- even when scripted as such. Again sorry to have gone off point before- it was just the "80% of the coral reefs have died from acidification and ocean warming"- that could not be passed on- or explained evidently.
Dragon moray ki
New member
I think that the show Is crap it shows tanks that are over stocked and look fake for example the juke box tank had a powder blue tang 3 butterfly's and some other tang that was in a 65 gallon 3 foot reef I hope the show gets cancelled
Dragon moray ki
New member
It's as bad as the 15 gallon tank with a blue tang I saw on Craigslist
Borchers
Reefer Who needs Help!!!
As a employee of a Company who had a Complete system installed by ATM years ago I can say by PERSONAL experience that the system they installed was top notch and rivals any system out there. And here is how it works.
They build it
They stock t.
You hire a Company to care for the tank before hand
Your guys clean and maintain the tank.
ATM fixes any building defects.
It's your job as a BUYER to be aware of the tanks needs and care not ATM's.
They build it
They stock t.
You hire a Company to care for the tank before hand
Your guys clean and maintain the tank.
ATM fixes any building defects.
It's your job as a BUYER to be aware of the tanks needs and care not ATM's.
macman7010
New member
syrinx. To address my statement where I said that 80% of Earth's coral reefs are dead or dying let me explain how I came to that conclusion. First, I used the Ocean Conservancy report that is interpreting data that 8 years old. I assumed based on their findings that reefs decline roughly 16% per year that reefs are still declining. As was stated by Ocean Conservancy scientists 24% of worldwide coral reefs are in a major state of decline. 20% are dead. In the Caribbean Sea 90% are dead. 16% in addition to that declined in the course of one year. Simple math 20+24+16 and we arrive at a figure of of 60% worldwide collapse. Now we take into account that in the Caribbean sea 90% have collapsed. If I take the 16% per year number as accurate that means that in the eight years since the reports there has been a huge, huge collapse as populations die. This all goes without mentioning the effects of yellow band disease on coral populations and bacteria such as Vibrio on clam population.
To get this train back on the tracks. What the Tanked folks are doing most defiantly has an effect on the hobby. It has nothing to do with folks going into their LFS store and buying corals/fish. That is the responsibility of the individual fish store owner to provide accurate information. Why, the one knucklehead from Tanked brought that up on his Mr. Saltwater interview I am unsure. Furthermore if he can find a 4 year old child that can understand simply the scientific basics of the Ammonia Cycle let alone the needs of a reef aquarium - good luck that child is a savant.
These guys are bad news for coral reef ecosystems and furthermore both they and their clients are bad news for our hobby. Somewhere along the lines these guys forgot to care about marine ecosystems and only care about how quick a dollar leaves their clients accounts and is in their hand.
To get this train back on the tracks. What the Tanked folks are doing most defiantly has an effect on the hobby. It has nothing to do with folks going into their LFS store and buying corals/fish. That is the responsibility of the individual fish store owner to provide accurate information. Why, the one knucklehead from Tanked brought that up on his Mr. Saltwater interview I am unsure. Furthermore if he can find a 4 year old child that can understand simply the scientific basics of the Ammonia Cycle let alone the needs of a reef aquarium - good luck that child is a savant.
These guys are bad news for coral reef ecosystems and furthermore both they and their clients are bad news for our hobby. Somewhere along the lines these guys forgot to care about marine ecosystems and only care about how quick a dollar leaves their clients accounts and is in their hand.
Cptn Spaulding
New member
Syrinx, have you worked retail, ever, anywhere? If so, ponder back to that job and think about that statement again.
And Macman, that link you showed about the sharks, describes two species of sharks, the white tip, and the grey reef shark; both which are not readily available in the hobby 99% of the time, and (if I read it properly) describes the population of these sharks in legal fishing zones around the reef, not as a whole. Yes the hobbyist portion of live animals leaving the ocean is a relatively small amount (in the vast majority of cases, unlike the banggai cardinal, etc) compared to ocean acidification, global climate change (not warming), pollution, etc, but there are a group of people that want to ban this hobby all together, freshwater and saltwater. These guys on Tanked are giving us responsible hobbyists a bad name. Anyone who knows anything about the hobby sees what they are doing and obviously does not care what happens to the livestock, only their pockets. If we all acted like that, there would be no more hobby.
I was very excited when I heard a show about marine aquariums was coming out, and severely disappointed when I saw it. I was expecting awesome tank builds (which they make, and are quite elegant, minus their filtration systems, I hear for many of their tanks its just a canister filter or two and some filter pads...maybe I was misinformed though), and great information on the hobby itself and it's common livestock. I was not disappointed at the magnitude of their tanks, but was disappointed at the lack of knowledge of any of the livestock they could possibly put in any tank, and the lack of care for the animal's life they are stocking in their customers' tanks.
I said it before on here and Ill say it again: If we all acted like said group of people (aka everyone in the hobby) THERE WOULD BE NO HOBBY. The insane group of people that want to ban fresh and saltwater tanks, as well as anything besides cornsnakes in the herp world, would have won by now. I would be committing felonies having my completely harmless jungle carpet python, my clownfish, any corals, live rock, even a hermit crab or a snail, and would be going to jail for quite some time or paying a ridiculous fine I could not pay for it. There is no question that what they are doing is morally and ethically wrong for the world and a hobby as a whole, and their carelessness is a personal attack on everyone who is in this hobby and performs responsible reefkeeping, because the bad name for the hobby they publicly show every week on television affects us all.
I am in middle school, and there were about 4 kids that came up to me about what fish I was going to put in the 10 gallon tank I set up there. 2 of those said I should get a tang, and when I told them those would get too big, they denied it. When I asked them to cite their sources, they said, "Well, I watched the show tank and they put a bunch of tangs in their tank!"
I am only lucky they do not spend money on aquariums.
Yes I owned a retail shop for ten years- have been a pro aquarist for more than twenty. people that came into my shop were given proper advice- and the people who wanted to to a "tanked" style tank were sent elsewhere. I also refused many sales- and banned a few people from buying fish. I also have run a wholesale and retail reptile business- I am fully aware of fads and propaganda from the internet and television. Most LFS have similar ethics. And again once the stats are looked at "90% of two species of sharks" not all sharks en total as the poster would have you believe. As far as the 14 year olds go- they are not selling fish- if they were to go to a LFS or do diligent research they would be educated. The point is- tanked taught those kids what the fish were and developed intrest- perhaps they will join the hobby. Exposure is the key to developing intrest-education the key to conservation. I still maintain that the tanked show is just as damaging as poor science and statistics to the cause.
Alphabet
Member
Agreed with Borchers! This upcoming season (if it airs) will be more "educational" for the couch jockeys. They will show set-up and maintaince, water quality,acclimation,filtration etc....explaining in more detail if you will.
If you get to las vegas or look up their website I think many will be pleasently suprised about their employees and retail store. Just saying, look into it.
I also never heard anyone complain about OCC and their 1 hour Bike Builds??? What about Extreme Home Makeover???? ( Been there ) Demo and re-build a house in 7 days??
C'mon we all know its "made" for T.V., well some of us don't. lmao!!
If you get to las vegas or look up their website I think many will be pleasently suprised about their employees and retail store. Just saying, look into it.
I also never heard anyone complain about OCC and their 1 hour Bike Builds??? What about Extreme Home Makeover???? ( Been there ) Demo and re-build a house in 7 days??
C'mon we all know its "made" for T.V., well some of us don't. lmao!!
Borchers
Reefer Who needs Help!!!
macman7010
New member
Well let me start at the top. I have a friend who owns a fish outlet in West Virginia who heard one of the stars of this show say, "He is not a fish hugger and out to make money. When fish die people buy more fish." Clearly they are pleased that fish die since it sounds like it makes them again more money. Shows about building motorcycles or renovating homes are not taking a natural resource that is in steady decline. The sheer amount of fish the folks from Tanked add to each aquarium they construct is alarming and frankly scary. I agree that folks need to educate themselves but do you think they do? I saw a promo trailer for Tanked and they had installed a shark tank in the home of an NFL star. His wide (clearly not the brightest) said, "It's so weird how they stare at you." Do you folks think she is running out gaining aquarium knowledge about sharks to property care for them? Doubtful...
As for the report I posted on shark population declines it does focus on two species, both open water pelagic sharks. I am of the mindset that no species of shark belongs in a private hobbyists tank. Sharks of all species react to stress and environment much differently than easier to keep species. The nature of their skin and other environmental concerns arise. If you visit this website and watch this film I think anyone would find my comments about shark population decline are correct: http://www.sharkwater.com/
Furthermore if you think large sharks are not sold to hobbyists here is a link to where you can purchase a Blacktipped Reef Shark: http://www.saltwaterfishshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=525'
I was a staff diver with the Pittsburgh Zoo and Aquarium and have been on shark diving trips all over the world. I completed my Dive Master internship aboard a boat that specialized in diving with sharks. I've seen lots of them and IMHO the only place for a shark is in the ocean or under the care of experts in both animal behavior and physiology.
I am sure the guys from Tanked would be first in line to toss a shark species into some rich person's aquarium if it turned a profit for them.
As for the report I posted on shark population declines it does focus on two species, both open water pelagic sharks. I am of the mindset that no species of shark belongs in a private hobbyists tank. Sharks of all species react to stress and environment much differently than easier to keep species. The nature of their skin and other environmental concerns arise. If you visit this website and watch this film I think anyone would find my comments about shark population decline are correct: http://www.sharkwater.com/
Furthermore if you think large sharks are not sold to hobbyists here is a link to where you can purchase a Blacktipped Reef Shark: http://www.saltwaterfishshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=525'
I was a staff diver with the Pittsburgh Zoo and Aquarium and have been on shark diving trips all over the world. I completed my Dive Master internship aboard a boat that specialized in diving with sharks. I've seen lots of them and IMHO the only place for a shark is in the ocean or under the care of experts in both animal behavior and physiology.
I am sure the guys from Tanked would be first in line to toss a shark species into some rich person's aquarium if it turned a profit for them.
macman7010
New member
Well let me start at the top. I have a friend who owns a fish outlet in West Virginia who heard one of the stars of this show say, "He is not a fish hugger and out to make money. When fish die people buy more fish." Clearly they are pleased that fish die since it sounds like it makes them again more money. Shows about building motorcycles or renovating homes are not taking a natural resource that is in steady decline. The sheer amount of fish the folks from Tanked add to each aquarium they construct is alarming and frankly scary. I agree that folks need to educate themselves but do you think they do? I saw a promo trailer for Tanked and they had installed a shark tank in the home of an NFL star. His wide (clearly not the brightest) said, "It's so weird how they stare at you." Do you folks think she is running out gaining aquarium knowledge about sharks to property care for them? Doubtful...
As for the report I posted on shark population declines it does focus on two species, both open water pelagic sharks. I am of the mindset that no species of shark belongs in a private hobbyists tank. Sharks of all species react to stress and environment much differently than easier to keep species. The nature of their skin and other environmental concerns arise. If you visit this website and watch this film I think anyone would find my comments about shark population decline are correct: http://www.sharkwater.com/
Furthermore if you think large sharks are not sold to hobbyists here is a link to where you can purchase a Blacktipped Reef Shark: http://www.saltwaterfishshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=525'
I was a staff diver with the Pittsburgh Zoo and Aquarium and have been on shark diving trips all over the world. I completed my Dive Master internship aboard a boat that specialized in diving with sharks. I've seen lots of them and IMHO the only place for a shark is in the ocean or under the care of experts in both animal behavior and physiology.
I am sure the guys from Tanked would be first in line to toss a shark species into some rich person's aquarium if it turned a profit for them.
As for the report I posted on shark population declines it does focus on two species, both open water pelagic sharks. I am of the mindset that no species of shark belongs in a private hobbyists tank. Sharks of all species react to stress and environment much differently than easier to keep species. The nature of their skin and other environmental concerns arise. If you visit this website and watch this film I think anyone would find my comments about shark population decline are correct: http://www.sharkwater.com/
Furthermore if you think large sharks are not sold to hobbyists here is a link to where you can purchase a Blacktipped Reef Shark: http://www.saltwaterfishshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=525'
I was a staff diver with the Pittsburgh Zoo and Aquarium and have been on shark diving trips all over the world. I completed my Dive Master internship aboard a boat that specialized in diving with sharks. I've seen lots of them and IMHO the only place for a shark is in the ocean or under the care of experts in both animal behavior and physiology.
I am sure the guys from Tanked would be first in line to toss a shark species into some rich person's aquarium if it turned a profit for them.
Its funny how you all but make tanked out to be the future death of every single thing that swims in the oceans. People run out and buy anything and everything just to be like them. ROFL LOL.
I wonder how many gallons of sea water were contaminated when the Sea Sheperard crashed & sunk thier boat? Or how much air & water pollution this engines make? People dont think about all that when they watch the show. Why? Cause people see what they want to see.
I visited 6 local LFS during the tanked hey dey, and only one had like 2 people come in that werent regular customers to ask about fish & stuff. TWO. not two stores TWO people. All the rest was current hobbyists. 4 of those stores were in a major metro area fy cause i see that get fired back at.
Having said that however things arent adding up?!?!!?
The guy that started the thread, has a previous posts admitting to an overstocked tank
himself? lol. I guess overstocked tanks are only bad on tv? Should we take all your fish & shut you down as well? Would be only fair right?
Funny thing is though a scan of the TV guide & DVR listings hasnt shown tanked on in the past coulple of weeks, not in a about a month that i found? Kinda curious how that happens? Maybe someone decided to visit by the forums, spill a cup of drama juice & eat an excitement cookie? Or did you buy the season on DVD or something?
I'm leaning towards nothing on TV & just needed some drama.
Truth be told Saving Nemo killed more fish than this show every will. So go break a piece of in walt disney.
I wonder how many gallons of sea water were contaminated when the Sea Sheperard crashed & sunk thier boat? Or how much air & water pollution this engines make? People dont think about all that when they watch the show. Why? Cause people see what they want to see.
I visited 6 local LFS during the tanked hey dey, and only one had like 2 people come in that werent regular customers to ask about fish & stuff. TWO. not two stores TWO people. All the rest was current hobbyists. 4 of those stores were in a major metro area fy cause i see that get fired back at.
Having said that however things arent adding up?!?!!?
The guy that started the thread, has a previous posts admitting to an overstocked tank
himself? lol. I guess overstocked tanks are only bad on tv? Should we take all your fish & shut you down as well? Would be only fair right?
Funny thing is though a scan of the TV guide & DVR listings hasnt shown tanked on in the past coulple of weeks, not in a about a month that i found? Kinda curious how that happens? Maybe someone decided to visit by the forums, spill a cup of drama juice & eat an excitement cookie? Or did you buy the season on DVD or something?
I'm leaning towards nothing on TV & just needed some drama.
Truth be told Saving Nemo killed more fish than this show every will. So go break a piece of in walt disney.
macman7010
New member
First and foremost khowst I have kept many overstocked aquariums. I have one right now. If you further your research you will learn that I compiled an article for Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine on keeping densely populated reefs. Furthermore some personal studies of mine led to another article on how keeping fish in tight quantities can actually improve fish behavior. I don't know if you have ever been on a coral reef - they are a dense environment. The article went on to discuss the rigorous work and knowledge required to keep such a system. Multiple water changes per week are required as well as a very hearty nutritional schedule making the need for water changes even worse. The water changes make maintaining a ph/essential elements/calcium/alk balance tricky so attention needs paid to that. It can be done and doing so creates a very unique fish experience as it mimics nature. As my article points out - multiple times - this approach is not for everyone and should only be used by a very experienced aquarist. I then compiled an article about misconceptions on certain species of marine fish even after I looked into species compatibility in the previous work.
Disney went OUT of their way by hiring Jean Michelle Cousteau to do a lead in when Nemo was released on DVD. Here he talked about marine life and reminded the audience that much that was seen in the film was fiction and if you want an aquarium do the research first. I ended up on a dive boat with one of the film's writers and she told me they took a lot of time to make sure the impact the film left for viewers was positive not negative.
I haven't seen one shake taken on Tanked other than to prove that if you boat loads of dough you can have anything ... no matter what the cost to the natural world.
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-experts/gosnell/default.aspx
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/a-caribbean-sea-biotope-aquarium.htm
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/the-achilles-tang-acanthurus-achilles.htm
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/from-reef-to-retail.htm
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-exclusives/fama/moorish-idol.aspx
Disney went OUT of their way by hiring Jean Michelle Cousteau to do a lead in when Nemo was released on DVD. Here he talked about marine life and reminded the audience that much that was seen in the film was fiction and if you want an aquarium do the research first. I ended up on a dive boat with one of the film's writers and she told me they took a lot of time to make sure the impact the film left for viewers was positive not negative.
I haven't seen one shake taken on Tanked other than to prove that if you boat loads of dough you can have anything ... no matter what the cost to the natural world.
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-experts/gosnell/default.aspx
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/a-caribbean-sea-biotope-aquarium.htm
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/the-achilles-tang-acanthurus-achilles.htm
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/from-reef-to-retail.htm
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-exclusives/fama/moorish-idol.aspx
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