Temperature? What do you use and why?

Drachs

New member
I'm setting up a new show tank and I'm trying to decide on a temperature. Most of the websites I see that talk about marine fish and reef inhabitants talk about 78-80 degrees, but I see alot of people on the forums mention much higher temperatures.

What do you consider ideal for your reef aquarium? And why did you make that choice?
 
I go for 78-86 with an average around 82 because it replicates the average range of temperatures on a reef and because regular fluctuations are important for the stress tolerance of the animals.
 
Really? I've never read anything about the stress tolerance of the animals as it relates to temperature fluctuation, can you elaborate for me?
 
One of the things that benefits fish in wild is the ability to relocate to more comfortable conditions. If they are too hot they can go below a thermocline. If they are too cold they can move in shallower. In our reefs this is not an option. That is one of the reasons I try to keep my temperature fluctuations to a minimum.

Using my Aquacontroller III I use a season table that allows for me to set up target temperatures for each month of the year. The controller then interpolates between them making adjustments every day.

Paul
 
Haha, I've been working all week on a proposal about thermal stress so I decided to take a break and check RC and now you want me to elaborate? :lol: j/k

The reason you probably haven't heard much about the importance of temp fluctuations is because very few reefers have any clue about thermal stress in reef animals. Surprisingly few books even deal with the subject appropriately.

To make a long story short, people will usually tell you that reef temps are stable and that fluctuating temperatures are stressful to the animals. That's a load of garbage on both counts. The average daily change is in the neighborhood of 3-5 degrees, but can be as much as 18. These changes happen fast too, as in on the order of seconds to minutes, not gradually over the course of the entire day. It's been documented that minute-to-minute temperature changes can frequently be half as much as the entire yearly variation.

As far as stress goes, there's no evidence that these fluctuations within their normal range are stressful to the animals. In fact, the thresholds for the stress response in the animals is modulated by the normal temperature range. It is not predetermined, and changing the animal's environment can change it's tolerance to thermal stress in the future. To put that in more practical terms, if you keep your tank within +/- .5 degrees per day you can expect to see signs of severe stress in the event that temperatures ever fluctuates by 3 or 4 degrees. Meanwhile the same animals kept at +/- 3 degrees per day would be unlikely to show signs of stress with even an 8 degree jump in temp.

The take home message is that fluctuations causing stress is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Allowing the temperature to fluctuate naturally poses no risk to the animals and in the event of a real temperature issue, it offers a much larger margin of error both against stress from fluctuations and from extremely high (and probably low) temperatures.
 
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just be careful with temps being too high, as some corals hate high temps; I have heard of people losing whole bird nest colonies in tanks were temps are above 84 degrees F.

With that said i shoot for about 79 in my reef, and everyone seems happy (I don't have any cool water fish like Catalina gobies so this temp is perfect for my stock)
 
One of the things that benefits fish in wild is the ability to relocate to more comfortable conditions. If they are too hot they can go below a thermocline. If they are too cold they can move in shallower. In our reefs this is not an option. That is one of the reasons I try to keep my temperature fluctuations to a minimum.
This isn't true. The majority of fish on the reef are small and are extremely limited in their freedom of movement by the threat of predation. Clownfish are extreme examples, but hardly the exception. Larger species which have less to fear from predators still don't move around the reef based on temperature gradients. They go to where the food is. They don't zigzag all over up and down searching for a temperature that suits them. People have done tracking studies of larger fish showing that some of them make daily migrations across the reef and they follow the same path within a few feet everyday, regardless of the temp. They travel in straight lines and don't deviate to follow temperatures. I helped a buddy that was doing something similar with bonefish in the Bahamas and other than regulating when they went in and out of the area to spawn, temperature had no obvious effect on their movement.

And just FWIW, I think you mean temperature gradient rather than thermocline. Thermocline has a pretty specific meaning and averages about 90-120 ft down on most reefs.
 
There is an oxygen component as well though to temperature. High temperatures = higher respiration = higher oxgyen use. The oxygen levels in our tank though are no where near as high as the ocean. Therefore, increasing the respiration rate in an already oxgyen low enviroment CAN be stressfull on inhabtitants, even though the temperature itself is not. This leads to the aquarist wanting to control their temperature and keeping it on the lower end, so I personally certainly do see a good reason for controlling temperature fluctuations over 80-81.

To play devils advocate, I kept my tank for two years within .3 degrees F. One day the temp dropped 6 degrees. I warmed the tank back up over the next 6 hours or so and everything was fine. There was no problems whatsoever in terms of bleaching, color loss, growth etc. Now, if the tank had swung 6 degrees int he other direction...... I am sure there would have problems. That doesnt mean that I need to be nervous about fluctuations, rather, that I need to be concerned with my tank getting to hot, which I think everyone should be concerned with. Unlike the ocean, our tanks are limited in dissolved oxygen and taking the temp up too high can cause problems. I just have not seen anything in my personal tank that gave me the impression that the corals were less viable due to no temp flucatuations. All things the same, the temp drop did not produce any sort of deadly reaction as I have seen several predict if such a thing were to happen ina stable tank.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12476710#post12476710 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
The majority of fish on the reef are small and are extremely limited in their freedom of movement by the threat of predation.

..

Larger species which have less to fear from predators still don't move around the reef based on temperature gradients. They go to where the food is.

...

And just FWIW, I think you mean temperature gradient rather than thermocline. Thermocline has a pretty specific meaning and averages about 90-120 ft down on most reefs.

You're right about the thermogradient. I was thinking about how refreshing it felt for me to dive through the thermocline on a hot day in warm water.

You're also right about many fish being limited by predation and food sources.

But, an old fishing trick is that you can often locate fish by the temperature that they prefer.

Also, while I'm not going to directly apply it to reef fish, because I don't know that it does, having dived in nuclear powerplant outflows and around them during the winter you can clearly tell by the density of fish that between a lot of factors including the oxygenation and temperature that bass, brim, etc. sure do go where they're comfortable.
 
There is an oxygen component as well though to temperature. High temperatures = higher respiration = higher oxgyen use. The oxygen levels in our tank though are no where near as high as the ocean. Therefore, increasing the respiration rate in an already oxgyen low enviroment CAN be stressfull on inhabtitants, even though the temperature itself is not. This leads to the aquarist wanting to control their temperature and keeping it on the lower end, so I personally certainly do see a good reason for controlling temperature fluctuations over 80-81.
There's a lot of truth to this, but also a lot of common misconceptions and oversimplifications.

There's certainly an oxygen component to be concerned with for a few reasons. One being that warmer water holds less oxygen at saturation. However, over the range of temps we're talking about in reef tanks the difference is negligible. There's something like 6% difference going from 78-86. You have to go above 90 before the saturation point even drops below 200% of the lower safe limit.

Of course the amount of O2 the water can hold is a different story than what it actually does hold. Adey has shown that during the day the water column on the reef is often hyperoxic and then becomes hypoxic at night. The differences are even more pronounced within coral colonies and the reef structure itself. He also found that O2 in a captive reef very closely resembles that seen in nature. Eric Borneman has done some work testing more tanks with similar results. I've only taken a few readings in tanks that resemble what you see in the hobby and they were all replicate tanks, but my readings didn't suggest that oxygen was any more limited than in nature either. In some tanks very heavily stocked with fish, oxygen availability may be an issue, but in the average reef tank it doesn't seem to be.

Of course the demand for O2 does generally increase with temperature. The rule of thumb for poikilotherms is that for every 10 degree C increase, metabolism will double. Over the range of reef temps that ends up being, very roughly, 9% increase in metabolism per degree Fahrenheit increase in temp (the trend isn't actually linear, so this just gives a rough estimate). However, that rule of thumb doesn't actually represent reality. As it turns out the amount of increase actually depends on the thermal history of the animal. At a given temperature, lets say 80, an animal that normally sees an average temp of 82 actually uses less energy than an animal of the same species that normally sees a temperature of 78. As temperature continues to increase the metabolism of the individual from the colder environment increases faster than the one from the warmer.

Thermal history also sets where the stress threshold for the animals is. Lots of people keep their tanks cooler than the natural average due to the mistaken belief that the danger threshold is a set value and lowering their temp will give them more room before they reach it. That isn't the case. The stress threshold is a product of acclimation, so lowering the temperature only acts to lower the threshold as well.
 
Re: Temperature? What do you use and why?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12473691#post12473691 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Drachs
I'm setting up a new show tank and I'm trying to decide on a temperature. Most of the websites I see that talk about marine fish and reef inhabitants talk about 78-80 degrees, but I see alot of people on the forums mention much higher temperatures.

What do you consider ideal for your reef aquarium? And why did you make that choice?

Returning to the original question ...

I used to keep my reef between 80-82 based upon a lot of the online information. However, during a dinoflagellate outbreak over a year ago, together with a lot of other efforts, I lowered the temperature to 77F. I've continued to use that as the "winter" temperature with it rising to 80 during the "summer" using the AquaController III's seasonal temperatures.

I know I can run it warmer safely and may work towards that (slowly) this summer.


Paul
 
Thanks for all the great answers guys, now I feel like I know something about the temperature and why to set it where it's set!
 
Re: Re: Temperature? What do you use and why?

Re: Re: Temperature? What do you use and why?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12480777#post12480777 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lutefisk
Returning to the original question ...

I used to keep my reef between 80-82 based upon a lot of the online information. However, during a dinoflagellate outbreak over a year ago, together with a lot of other efforts, I lowered the temperature to 77F. I've continued to use that as the "winter" temperature with it rising to 80 during the "summer" using the AquaController III's seasonal temperatures.

I know I can run it warmer safely and may work towards that (slowly) this summer.


Paul

I use the season feature in the AC3 also - I think it's my favorite feature.. Slowly ramps up the temp from ~75.0*F low in winter to ~80*F in summer. I also allow +3*F daily swings, so my tank regularly sees 83*F in the summer. No issues ever. Have seen +5*F swings without major stress.
 
Doesn't the fact that many people have low PH indicate that many are running on the lower end of the dissolved oxygen spectrum though? I understand that in a perfect tank enviroment temp swings may be fine, but sometimes high indoor co2 levels can not be avoided. In these low ph situations, should high temps be avoided?
 
No, you can't really tell anything about the dissolved oxygen from the pH. Typically we think of CO2 building up at night and O2 being depleted due to respiration. That's not because they're inversely related though; it's because one is being used and one is being produced. It's entirely possible for both to be high at the same time if they're coming from sources other than photosynthesis and respiration in the tank (like the air from the room).

My personal tank was one of the many that had a chronically low pH due to CO2. It never got above 7.9 and I regularly ran the temp range I recommended above. There was even one occasion last summer when the temp got to 92 with no ill effects, which is something few people can say.
 
greenbean36191

I agree with all you said I run mine at 78-80 but in a SPS tank will a lower temp 74-76 bring out more colour in the corals...Lighting not being part of the question?

Personally I don't have a clue but some sucessful reefers I know swear by this. Is this a myth or is there some basis for this theory?

Bill
 
I have kept mine at 79-80 with a few days of 82 in summer for the past 2 years with great results.

I just got a ACjr so Im going to try keeping things at 76 in winter and 80 in summer.

My nano frag tank(just softies now) hovers around 85-90 daily, only effects ive seen are a SPS died(which is why I dont have anymore in there now) and my shrooms are splitting like crazy.
 
I agree with all you said I run mine at 78-80 but in a SPS tank will a lower temp 74-76 bring out more colour in the corals...Lighting not being part of the question?

Personally I don't have a clue but some sucessful reefers I know swear by this. Is this a myth or is there some basis for this theory?
I can't think of any mechanism that would explain brighter coloration with cooler water. That certainly doesn't mean there isn't one but it's not something that's ever been noted in the scientific lit.

I've heard the claim myself, but I've never actually seen anyone show a real difference with before and after pictures. I would have to say I'm skeptical.
 
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