The Elegance Coral Project
- Thread starter EricHugo
- Start date
Monti
New member
Eric... so here's what I don't get...
This project has been going on for ages... and nobody knows whats really going on. Publicly funded companies must report all information to its funders. What's the difference here? I understand that you are busy. But, you've had plenty of time to make many other posts the last couple of days, and take photos of your tank. Plenty of time to do a study on oxygen in tanks. There is another project you've involved yourself in Houston that also is mirroring this project, in that it's obtained donations but then seems to have dissapeared. What's the deal? No need to write out a long explanation. Here's some simple questions that require simple answers.
1. Where are all the elegance coral samples?
2. Where are the pics of the setup the living corals are housed in?
3. Are these at the University of Houston? Your house? Another location?
4. Where are the funds and how have they been used?
If the project hasn't recieved enough funding... just say so, don't keep us on the edge of our seats. Everyone wants this project to succeed, myself included. However, the way this and other projects have been handled thus far will not encourage everyone to do their part to support research under your direction.
This project has been going on for ages... and nobody knows whats really going on. Publicly funded companies must report all information to its funders. What's the difference here? I understand that you are busy. But, you've had plenty of time to make many other posts the last couple of days, and take photos of your tank. Plenty of time to do a study on oxygen in tanks. There is another project you've involved yourself in Houston that also is mirroring this project, in that it's obtained donations but then seems to have dissapeared. What's the deal? No need to write out a long explanation. Here's some simple questions that require simple answers.
1. Where are all the elegance coral samples?
2. Where are the pics of the setup the living corals are housed in?
3. Are these at the University of Houston? Your house? Another location?
4. Where are the funds and how have they been used?
If the project hasn't recieved enough funding... just say so, don't keep us on the edge of our seats. Everyone wants this project to succeed, myself included. However, the way this and other projects have been handled thus far will not encourage everyone to do their part to support research under your direction.
Knyght
New member
Although I did not donate to this study. *did not know about it at the time*, I have to agree with you Monti.
The last post to this study by Mr. Borneman is the one at the top of this page.
I do understand that things happen but.....
Perhaps Mr. Borneman no longer cares about this study
Many mornings have come and gone since then. It only takes a minute or so to keep people in the loop. Therefore IMHO this is a good example of why people do not donate. Kind of makes them feel ripped off
:beachbum:
The last post to this study by Mr. Borneman is the one at the top of this page.
EricHugo Dated 6-21-05. said:
I do understand that things happen but.....
Perhaps Mr. Borneman no longer cares about this study
Many mornings have come and gone since then. It only takes a minute or so to keep people in the loop. Therefore IMHO this is a good example of why people do not donate. Kind of makes them feel ripped off
:beachbum:
crpeck
Premium Member
Knyght ... please don't make allegations of "ripped off", especially if you are not a contributor.
As a board member/fundraiser for 2 non profits and the unofficial treasurer of this project, I can tell you that people who want to make a difference in this world like to give ... either time or money ... they like to give.
All of the donations that were made directly to the Elegance Coral Project or through me are intact and accounted for. If anyone wants out, PM me your name and email address and I will return your donation net your prorata share of expenses that have been legitimately spent on the project.
Cathy
As a board member/fundraiser for 2 non profits and the unofficial treasurer of this project, I can tell you that people who want to make a difference in this world like to give ... either time or money ... they like to give.
All of the donations that were made directly to the Elegance Coral Project or through me are intact and accounted for. If anyone wants out, PM me your name and email address and I will return your donation net your prorata share of expenses that have been legitimately spent on the project.
Cathy
Elegance Project update
ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“
I am not going to revew all the posts in this thread, as I have been kept abreast of them by emails, all but three of which I have directly answered.
The status is this:
I sent over 40 of theinfected corals donated by aquarists to the International Registry for Coral Pathology in Oxford, MD. This is a service, part of the Coral Disease and Health Consortium, that logs diseased corals and then provides back sections or tissue samples to interested parties. I also sent in 30 other samples, some wild, and some aquarum, with various conditions. This entailed some 117 pages of forms, not to mention the dissection and cataloging, packing and shipping and Hazmat forms (formalin and ethanol) of all specimens prior to sending them.
Some months later, I inquired on their status and apparently there is a problem which, I believe has been cleared up, in that the corals, being unpermitted except at the original port of entry which, of course, none of the specimens had CITES documentation, and could thus not be officially entered with a specific regulation or exception from USFWS. Mitch Carl apparently had the same issue with samples he sent in from Henry Doorly Zoo.
As it stand, I stopped sending them samples, because I was not getting any responses, or sections, from any of the corals despite several emails of inquiry. I didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t want to lost the remaining samples in the void. Two weeks ago, I wrote an email requesting the sections or the return of the specimens so I could have them processed elsewhere.
I had received a contact at the Marine Pathology lab of Texas A&M, but they are apparently not responding to phone calls or emails. Then, I contacted my vet and asked who did their histology. They used private labs, which of course, are expensive. She suggested, and had others, that I contact Texas A&M vet school who offers histology services. I sent Rosemary Vollmar, in charge of inquires to histological service available by the T A&M veterinary lab of histopatology. The first email went unanswered. Figuring a firewall block, I resent the email. She responded saying she never got the first message. I resent it, and then followed up twice, including inquiries for a call to discuss the needs of this and other sections I need done for my own work. No responses at all. I will be calling next week. I also contaced a medical histology resource, and although they offered to do the work, it was expensive and would take a very back seat to any human pathologies ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that is to say, every day a non-stop influx of tumors and other tissue anomalies.
I had also never received a healthy elegance coral. A local coral wholesaler, Reef Savers, got six corals in for the study, kept one last time I saw them, killed several, and then sold the other healthy ones to ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œspecial customers.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ Unbelievable! It was only several weeks ago that I finally received a healthy elegance as a fragment of a healthy colony. I am not going to process this sample until I am sure of a source for histology and timely return of specimens. But, at at least I now have two controls ready.
In spending some time at the histopathology lab in Oxford, it is apparent that there are many intracellular possibilities of pathogens present, though which are normal and which are not is unknown since I refuse to send my healthy specimens to this lab if they cannot provide samples back.
This has been a very frustrating ordeal for me. I have, to date, spent all my own money from my NSF fellowship to process the samples to date, but until I hear from the IRCP or one of these other labs, I cannot go any farther. If anyone has any ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œinsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ or people who are willing to do histology sections (unstained is fineââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦I am staining them myself), then the project can progress. I have not spent any of the donated money because there has been nothing really to spend on except supplies I have used from the lab in the fixation and decalcification procedures. The money needs to be spent on the sectioning, and then on any tests once we see what is happening intracellularly. Fortunately, I did not send all the diseased samples off, and theys it on my lab shelf awaiting a source for histology ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ something our university and lab isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t set up to to. We have an old and nice microtome, but the parts are no longer available, and I am afraid that as thin as coral tissue is, I would waste precious tissue trying to cut a good section as this is skill that that takes much experitise and experience to do right.
So, I have neither forgotten about nor lost interest in this work. I am as excited and anxious as anyone, especially given the declining stock levels and unsustainability of the coral in the wild. Right now, my hands are tied, and if anyone can offer suggestions or has connections to get us past this seemingly simple step, I am all ears.
I again apologize for ignoring the thread, but I have not been ignoring the situation, but felt there was nothing to really report except my frustration. It is also important to restate this is an aquarium malady that most researchers are fairly uninterested in, and they are overworked and have other projects, and I am trying to sell the fact that there may be a significant ecological impact resulting from continued collections and high resultant mortality.
Thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s all for now, and as soon as I reach a human offering services that they are supposed to provide, and whom actually do so, I promise that we will get a much faster and better idea of what is causing the elegance coral syndrome.
ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“
I am not going to revew all the posts in this thread, as I have been kept abreast of them by emails, all but three of which I have directly answered.
The status is this:
I sent over 40 of theinfected corals donated by aquarists to the International Registry for Coral Pathology in Oxford, MD. This is a service, part of the Coral Disease and Health Consortium, that logs diseased corals and then provides back sections or tissue samples to interested parties. I also sent in 30 other samples, some wild, and some aquarum, with various conditions. This entailed some 117 pages of forms, not to mention the dissection and cataloging, packing and shipping and Hazmat forms (formalin and ethanol) of all specimens prior to sending them.
Some months later, I inquired on their status and apparently there is a problem which, I believe has been cleared up, in that the corals, being unpermitted except at the original port of entry which, of course, none of the specimens had CITES documentation, and could thus not be officially entered with a specific regulation or exception from USFWS. Mitch Carl apparently had the same issue with samples he sent in from Henry Doorly Zoo.
As it stand, I stopped sending them samples, because I was not getting any responses, or sections, from any of the corals despite several emails of inquiry. I didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t want to lost the remaining samples in the void. Two weeks ago, I wrote an email requesting the sections or the return of the specimens so I could have them processed elsewhere.
I had received a contact at the Marine Pathology lab of Texas A&M, but they are apparently not responding to phone calls or emails. Then, I contacted my vet and asked who did their histology. They used private labs, which of course, are expensive. She suggested, and had others, that I contact Texas A&M vet school who offers histology services. I sent Rosemary Vollmar, in charge of inquires to histological service available by the T A&M veterinary lab of histopatology. The first email went unanswered. Figuring a firewall block, I resent the email. She responded saying she never got the first message. I resent it, and then followed up twice, including inquiries for a call to discuss the needs of this and other sections I need done for my own work. No responses at all. I will be calling next week. I also contaced a medical histology resource, and although they offered to do the work, it was expensive and would take a very back seat to any human pathologies ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ that is to say, every day a non-stop influx of tumors and other tissue anomalies.
I had also never received a healthy elegance coral. A local coral wholesaler, Reef Savers, got six corals in for the study, kept one last time I saw them, killed several, and then sold the other healthy ones to ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œspecial customers.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ Unbelievable! It was only several weeks ago that I finally received a healthy elegance as a fragment of a healthy colony. I am not going to process this sample until I am sure of a source for histology and timely return of specimens. But, at at least I now have two controls ready.
In spending some time at the histopathology lab in Oxford, it is apparent that there are many intracellular possibilities of pathogens present, though which are normal and which are not is unknown since I refuse to send my healthy specimens to this lab if they cannot provide samples back.
This has been a very frustrating ordeal for me. I have, to date, spent all my own money from my NSF fellowship to process the samples to date, but until I hear from the IRCP or one of these other labs, I cannot go any farther. If anyone has any ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œinsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ or people who are willing to do histology sections (unstained is fineââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦I am staining them myself), then the project can progress. I have not spent any of the donated money because there has been nothing really to spend on except supplies I have used from the lab in the fixation and decalcification procedures. The money needs to be spent on the sectioning, and then on any tests once we see what is happening intracellularly. Fortunately, I did not send all the diseased samples off, and theys it on my lab shelf awaiting a source for histology ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ something our university and lab isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t set up to to. We have an old and nice microtome, but the parts are no longer available, and I am afraid that as thin as coral tissue is, I would waste precious tissue trying to cut a good section as this is skill that that takes much experitise and experience to do right.
So, I have neither forgotten about nor lost interest in this work. I am as excited and anxious as anyone, especially given the declining stock levels and unsustainability of the coral in the wild. Right now, my hands are tied, and if anyone can offer suggestions or has connections to get us past this seemingly simple step, I am all ears.
I again apologize for ignoring the thread, but I have not been ignoring the situation, but felt there was nothing to really report except my frustration. It is also important to restate this is an aquarium malady that most researchers are fairly uninterested in, and they are overworked and have other projects, and I am trying to sell the fact that there may be a significant ecological impact resulting from continued collections and high resultant mortality.
Thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s all for now, and as soon as I reach a human offering services that they are supposed to provide, and whom actually do so, I promise that we will get a much faster and better idea of what is causing the elegance coral syndrome.
Good news:
Just received the following email rom Kathy Price at the IRCP
>>Hi, Eric,
Sorry it's taken so long to return your email. I had to take emergency leave last week to attend to a family medical situation.
I can have the slides to you by the end of the month, if this is OK. I have a workshop next week, which will take up my time, but can finish them up when it's over.
Cheers, Kathy<<
Just received the following email rom Kathy Price at the IRCP
>>Hi, Eric,
Sorry it's taken so long to return your email. I had to take emergency leave last week to attend to a family medical situation.
I can have the slides to you by the end of the month, if this is OK. I have a workshop next week, which will take up my time, but can finish them up when it's over.
Cheers, Kathy<<
Fairfield Reef
In Memoriam
Unbelievable persistent,Eric, my hat off to you / TY
Knyght
New member
That`s great news.
Also wanted to clear up the misconception that occured with my post earlier.
I didn`t intend for the post to be construed as any one was "ripping" anyone off monetarily.
Only that as a reader I felt "ripped" off, since it took over a month for Mr. Borneman to post. Obviously I am tripping over myself to apologize for my off-hand remark and poor choice of words.
Eric, if IRCP doesn`t work out to your satisfaction please keep us informed as The university here doesn`t actually have that great of a zoology dept. But has one of the top ranked medical facilities in the nation. I don`t have alot of pull but would certainly be able and willing to check into what it would take to do the histology.
Peace,
:beachbum:
Also wanted to clear up the misconception that occured with my post earlier.
I didn`t intend for the post to be construed as any one was "ripping" anyone off monetarily.
Only that as a reader I felt "ripped" off, since it took over a month for Mr. Borneman to post. Obviously I am tripping over myself to apologize for my off-hand remark and poor choice of words.
Eric, if IRCP doesn`t work out to your satisfaction please keep us informed as The university here doesn`t actually have that great of a zoology dept. But has one of the top ranked medical facilities in the nation. I don`t have alot of pull but would certainly be able and willing to check into what it would take to do the histology.
Peace,
:beachbum:
mr. maroon clown
New member
good job Eric keep at it..
crpeck
Premium Member
Thanks for asking, Sihaya.
Right now we still have funds from before the project went on hold for a while. I think we should wait to accept any more donations until we have a better idea of what Eric is going to need as he gets the project rolling to the next level.
Unless, Eric, you want to start using some of the funds to buy the healthy specimens you need? Eric can answer as to specimen donations, right now I'd feel more comfortable waiting to see what we're going to need before accepting any more cash.
Thanks SO much for the show of support!
Cathy
Right now we still have funds from before the project went on hold for a while. I think we should wait to accept any more donations until we have a better idea of what Eric is going to need as he gets the project rolling to the next level.
Unless, Eric, you want to start using some of the funds to buy the healthy specimens you need? Eric can answer as to specimen donations, right now I'd feel more comfortable waiting to see what we're going to need before accepting any more cash.
Thanks SO much for the show of support!
Cathy
I had an offer for numerous sick corals, but we have plenty of those. I recently got an email from someone wanting to donate elegance and I inquired if they were healthy of sick, and have not had a response in a week or more...maybe they died? I've also had several emails froom Aussies who have no problems with elegance corals, but its too hard to get them from that country. I have two healthy corals, and Kathy Price contacted me again, and actually requested the healthy one, so I will fix and decalcify the one fragment, and I will fragment my own as the healthy ones, unless there are donations of healthy corals possible yet.
As soon as I get the samples back, I will start under the microscope first. The first funds used will probably be for various stains, even though Kathy has graciously offered to do both H&E and another one for me - and I don't know if there will be a charge, but I don't think so.
So, maybe a little patience literally pays off.
As soon as I get the samples back, I will start under the microscope first. The first funds used will probably be for various stains, even though Kathy has graciously offered to do both H&E and another one for me - and I don't know if there will be a charge, but I don't think so.
So, maybe a little patience literally pays off.
ApatheticReefer
New member
Just a quick heads up liveaquaria has a seemingly healthy specimen. http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=2571&siteid=20
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