The 'help me hammer down my nitrate' thread...[Mature Tank with Problems]
- Thread starter Sk8r
- Start date
Well, turns out Nopox is one method I haven't tried, and unlike Prime and Amquel, it doesn't bind the nitrate. I'm going to back off the vinegar and see how that works in a few days. I've certainly got a good test case for it. And I'd rather not disassemble my sump if I can avoid it right at this precise tightly-scheduled moment.
CStrickland
New member
Im not sure whether dosing carbon in the vodka/vinegar combo (which is all nopox is) is thought to work any better at reducing nitrates, or if it's just less likely to have side effects like cyano and bacteria blooms. Yours would be a good test case, but I do expect people to query whether the vinegar got the ball rolling and then the mixture took credit for the result. People are awfully quibbly about experimental design.
I polished my sump today by using a glass scraper and pokey stick to kick up all the crud, while running my spare 800 gph powerhead in there with a new filter sock on the return outlet into my tank. I had some old bacteria films and detritus from when I was carbon dosing, but didn't feel like breaking out the vacuum. That might be easier than the tear down.
I polished my sump today by using a glass scraper and pokey stick to kick up all the crud, while running my spare 800 gph powerhead in there with a new filter sock on the return outlet into my tank. I had some old bacteria films and detritus from when I was carbon dosing, but didn't feel like breaking out the vacuum. That might be easier than the tear down.
thelawnwrangler
New member
I saw on youtube some guy put a small power head in the dead areas of his sump- not sure how effective that would be, but seemed like a good idea
CarrieB
Member
Interested to see how the NoPox does.
Also interested that your coral don't seem to mind the current nitrate level. Not that you shouldn't try to get it down, but it would be nice to have more data around how high is too high for the inhabitants. I'm also working on nitrates at about 50ppm, but only a hermit crab and a sea cuke in the tank and they seem to be okay. The algae appears to love it.
I've been dosing vodka for a week and am going to do a water change today, so I feel like I am hard on your heels, hoping you can show me the right path.
Btw, do you suppose that the nitrate consuming bacteria are just more fragile than the ammonia and nitrite consuming ones and therefore take longer to re-establish after a disruption like a power outage (or in my case moving and rebuilding the tank). Also, didn't you just move your tank, too? Do you think that might be a factor?
Also interested that your coral don't seem to mind the current nitrate level. Not that you shouldn't try to get it down, but it would be nice to have more data around how high is too high for the inhabitants. I'm also working on nitrates at about 50ppm, but only a hermit crab and a sea cuke in the tank and they seem to be okay. The algae appears to love it.
I've been dosing vodka for a week and am going to do a water change today, so I feel like I am hard on your heels, hoping you can show me the right path.
Btw, do you suppose that the nitrate consuming bacteria are just more fragile than the ammonia and nitrite consuming ones and therefore take longer to re-establish after a disruption like a power outage (or in my case moving and rebuilding the tank). Also, didn't you just move your tank, too? Do you think that might be a factor?
serbusfish
New member
I was without my skimmer for 6 days and in that time my nitrates rose to 25. Most corals didnt mind, but a couple of SPS turned brown. Once the skimmer was back up and running I did 5x 15% water changes over the course of a week and my nitrates dropped to 8. I have now started dosing Red Sea NoPox + removed my GFO. After 6 days nitrate hasnt really changed (I didnt expect it to so soon) but phosphate hasn't risen. Im hoping this stuff is going to eventually drop my nitrates to 1 - 2 and keep my phosphate undetectable.
In December I suddenly lost 4 apparently healthy fish and some corals. All had been in the tank for over 8 months. I had been lax in my maintenance for a few months because I had 4 surgeries one after another with significant weight restrictions for several months. Water changes were smaller and less frequent. After the livestock loss I tested everything and came up with nitrates over 100. Bought a different test kit and it verified the high nitrates in both of my tanks.
I was no longer restricted as far as lifting so I started with larger water changes. It really wasn't cutting it. I got the levels below 100 but couldn't get better than 50. I added more rock in both my tank and sump and started vinegar dosing. I have gotten the nitrates in my smaller tank to 10 but they are still between 25 and 50 in my big tank.
After reading this thread I cleaned out my sump. Couldn't believe all the crap that had collected in there. Hopefully that was part of the problem. My levels have been slowly falling and currently my fish and coral seem fine. Hopefully that trend will continue.
I was no longer restricted as far as lifting so I started with larger water changes. It really wasn't cutting it. I got the levels below 100 but couldn't get better than 50. I added more rock in both my tank and sump and started vinegar dosing. I have gotten the nitrates in my smaller tank to 10 but they are still between 25 and 50 in my big tank.
After reading this thread I cleaned out my sump. Couldn't believe all the crap that had collected in there. Hopefully that was part of the problem. My levels have been slowly falling and currently my fish and coral seem fine. Hopefully that trend will continue.
RayAllen3422
New member
How much did you dose? How did you do it? What was your tank size? This will help everyone interested in trying. Thanks!!!
Dkuhlmann
New member
NoPox is what worked for me like I explained in my previous post. I dosed it for 10 days at 3ml per 25 gals and after 10 days I went from Nitrates/Phospates 80/.04 to undetectable on both. Two weeks later and they're still undetectable. It made a believer out of me.,
I'd like to go the Nopox route if it will work, because I have a fuge that, while it suffered a lot in the chill-down, is live. The cheato died out---basketball sized ball went to nada, releasing all it owned, but there is some little cheato, and there is a wealth of pods, much of which I'd lose in a total sump cleanout. I'll give this one thing a try before I strip the sump down.
Dkuhlmann
New member
Sk8r if you saw my sump you would probably go "OH MY GOD" that is nasty 
Honestly I should have high nitrates and phosphates just looking at my sump. I only clean it out once every 6 months to a year, and I don't use filter socks.
I tried dosing sugar, vodka and vinegar and didn't get the kind of success that I got from NoPox and only doing the one 10 day treatment. I was skeptical of it and if it would really work.
Well after hearing everyone saying it's vodka and vinegar so you don't need to spend the money on NoPox. Well it doesn't have any odor of either Vodka or vinegar and it does work and I didn't get a cyano bloom after using it like I have in the past with other treatments of the more "accepted" Vinegar, Vodka and sugar.
I tested my nitrates and phosphates right before I started dosing NoPox and had 80+ nitrates and .04 phosphates. I took another reading on I believe day 4 or 5 and they were exactly the same as the test the day I started dosing. I didn't test again until the day after my 10th dose and I was shocked that both were hardly delectable with API kits. I even decided to check a very old API Nitrate kit that I have had probably 10 years and I knew it was not reading correctly but testing with that kit it showed <5 and the new kit showed 0.
I read an article and for the life of me can't find it now, but it was talking about how NoPox works. They said in the article that it helps feed, support and develop more of the bacteria that consumes nitrates and phosphates. So there was a thread going on here that was talking about getting rid of both nitrates and phosphates and I stated my success with NoPox and of course it was lets say not widely accepted and my comments were basically ignored. So while they still keep adding vinegar, vodka or sugar they still have issues with nitrates and phosphates and have been dosing for God knows how long but still believe in that protocol. Me, I got rid of my issue in 10 days and I'm glad that I got the product and tried it. I've got more than half a bottle left and I think my cost was $13 ish including shipping and I bought it from Ebay. So for $6 bucks or so my nitrates and phosphates are gone and have been for more than two weeks since my treatment. I plan on testing both every two weeks just to see if there is any change. I( do feed my fish and corals pretty heavy but have fat and healthy fish.
I'd like to add that my corals still look amazing even showing the low levels and my Chaeto is still growing in my sump which I run the lights 24/7 and also have some GHA growing in there which is kind of like having an algae scrubber. My pods, hermits, emerald crab are also doing very well in my sump even as dirty and nasty as it is. But with the success that I'm having I don't want to clean it in fear of creating other problems If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Honestly I should have high nitrates and phosphates just looking at my sump. I only clean it out once every 6 months to a year, and I don't use filter socks. I tried dosing sugar, vodka and vinegar and didn't get the kind of success that I got from NoPox and only doing the one 10 day treatment. I was skeptical of it and if it would really work.
Well after hearing everyone saying it's vodka and vinegar so you don't need to spend the money on NoPox. Well it doesn't have any odor of either Vodka or vinegar and it does work and I didn't get a cyano bloom after using it like I have in the past with other treatments of the more "accepted" Vinegar, Vodka and sugar.
I tested my nitrates and phosphates right before I started dosing NoPox and had 80+ nitrates and .04 phosphates. I took another reading on I believe day 4 or 5 and they were exactly the same as the test the day I started dosing. I didn't test again until the day after my 10th dose and I was shocked that both were hardly delectable with API kits. I even decided to check a very old API Nitrate kit that I have had probably 10 years and I knew it was not reading correctly but testing with that kit it showed <5 and the new kit showed 0.
I read an article and for the life of me can't find it now, but it was talking about how NoPox works. They said in the article that it helps feed, support and develop more of the bacteria that consumes nitrates and phosphates. So there was a thread going on here that was talking about getting rid of both nitrates and phosphates and I stated my success with NoPox and of course it was lets say not widely accepted and my comments were basically ignored. So while they still keep adding vinegar, vodka or sugar they still have issues with nitrates and phosphates and have been dosing for God knows how long but still believe in that protocol. Me, I got rid of my issue in 10 days and I'm glad that I got the product and tried it. I've got more than half a bottle left and I think my cost was $13 ish including shipping and I bought it from Ebay. So for $6 bucks or so my nitrates and phosphates are gone and have been for more than two weeks since my treatment. I plan on testing both every two weeks just to see if there is any change. I( do feed my fish and corals pretty heavy but have fat and healthy fish.
I'd like to add that my corals still look amazing even showing the low levels and my Chaeto is still growing in my sump which I run the lights 24/7 and also have some GHA growing in there which is kind of like having an algae scrubber. My pods, hermits, emerald crab are also doing very well in my sump even as dirty and nasty as it is. But with the success that I'm having I don't want to clean it in fear of creating other problems
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Last edited:
biecacka
Active member
I have a 240 gallon tank with 30 fish in it. I started at 2/15ml of vodka vinegar in that order. Week later went to 4/20ml, then the following week I went to 6/25ml, then maxed out at 9/30. Ran it that way for about a month. Nitrates are about 5 now, started at 100 or more. I used a syringe and dosed right into the return line in the tank. For smaller tanks I would go past 4/20 or maybe the 6/25 and run at for a few weeks and watch everything closely.
Corey
Corey
RayAllen3422
New member
Sk8r if you saw my sump you would probably go "OH MY GOD" that is nasty
I tried dosing sugar, vodka and vinegar and didn't get the kind of success that I got from NoPox and only doing the one 10 day treatment. I was skeptical of it and if it would really work.
Well after hearing everyone saying it's vodka and vinegar so you don't need to spend the money on NoPox. Well it doesn't have any odor of either Vodka or vinegar and it does work and I didn't get a cyano bloom after using it like I have in the past with other treatments of the more "accepted" Vinegar, Vodka and sugar.
I tested my nitrates and phosphates right before I started dosing NoPox and had 80+ nitrates and .04 phosphates. I took another reading on I believe day 4 or 5 and they were exactly the same as the test the day I started dosing. I didn't test again until the day after my 10th dose and I was shocked that both were hardly delectable with API kits. I even decided to check a very old API Nitrate kit that I have had probably 10 years and I knew it was not reading correctly but testing with that kit it showed <5 and the new kit showed 0.
I read an article and for the life of me can't find it now, but it was talking about how NoPox works. They said in the article that it helps feed, support and develop more of the bacteria that consumes nitrates and phosphates. So there was a thread going on here that was talking about getting rid of both nitrates and phosphates and I stated my success with NoPox and of course it was lets say not widely accepted and my comments were basically ignored. So while they still keep adding vinegar, vodka or sugar they still have issues with nitrates and phosphates and have been dosing for God knows how long but still believe in that protocol. Me, I got rid of my issue in 10 days and I'm glad that I got the product and tried it. I've got more than half a bottle left and I think my cost was $13 ish including shipping and I bought it from Ebay. So for $6 bucks or so my nitrates and phosphates are gone and have been for more than two weeks since my treatment. I plan on testing both every two weeks just to see if there is any change. I( do feed my fish and corals pretty heavy but have fat and healthy fish.
I'd like to add that my corals still look amazing even showing the low levels and my Chaeto is still growing in my sump which I run the lights 24/7 and also have some GHA growing in there which is kind of like having an algae scrubber. My pods, hermits, emerald crab are also doing very well in my sump even as dirty and nasty as it is. But with the success that I'm having I don't want to clean it in fear of creating other problems
So what happens when you stop dosing it? Just curious if you or anyone knows. Do the bacteria go away? Do the nitrates come back?
Dkuhlmann
New member
I thought that I explained that in my post. I only dosed NoPox for 10 days and haven't dosed any since the last day that I dosed it a little more than 2 weeks ago and both are still not detectable. I also said that I would test for both every two weeks to make sure that both are still undetectable, if they are showing up I'll do an additional dose for 10 days. I am only dosing exactly what Red Sea suggests.
The amount you dose depends on how high your nitrates and phosphates are to begin with. Since mine were 80/.04 I dosed 3 ml per 25 gals of actual water in my system which is 45 ish gallons so I just went with 6 ml per day for 10 days.
CStrickland
New member
It depends on what else you've done. Like in sk8r's situation, it was a one-time thing that got stuff out of balance. That's diff than someone who has been lazy with husbandry and looking for a bandaid. If the underlying problem is not resolved, it's likely to return when you stop. Some people have bad outbreaks of algae when they stop cold-turkey, many don't, I didn't.
We don't really know exactly how carbon dosing works. The basic idea that the heterotrophic bacteria are limited by the absence of available carbon is pretty well-accepted. By adding carbon to the tank, they are boosted. It's not really clear whether what is being skimmed out is something the boosted population is producing as waste or the bacteria themselves. You hear it both ways. The heterotrophs need a little P, a little more N, and a lotta C to grow. When you add the C they have everything they need and they use up the N&P along the way.
That C can come from vinegar, vodka, a vin/vodka blend that the reefer mixes, a vin/vodka blend that the reefer purchases in a bottle of magic potion, or products like biopellets that release it over time. Each method has fans.
Dkuhlmann
New member
:lmao: lazy with husbandry? I think not, the problem was that I had acquired 3 new fish and therefore was feeding much more and didn't pay attention to my nitrates as every time I tested all parameters they were where fine with my current wc schedule. Well more food and more fish = more poop, and not testing anything for several weeks bit me in the butt and I even said this on another post.
I've gone out of my way trying to be nice to you but frankly I'm getting sick and tired of your attacks on me, while trying to be subtle I know who you are talking about. Also you have no Idea of what I do and when I do it, you just assume that you know and fill in the spaces to suit your need. So lay off of it or simply block me and I'll be happy to add you to the two others on my ignore list.
I've gone out of my way trying to be nice to you but frankly I'm getting sick and tired of your attacks on me, while trying to be subtle I know who you are talking about. Also you have no Idea of what I do and when I do it, you just assume that you know and fill in the spaces to suit your need. So lay off of it or simply block me and I'll be happy to add you to the two others on my ignore list.
