The Moorish Idol Thread
- Thread starter zfunk007
- Start date
Idol Help Please-I apologize in advance, there is a detailed timeline of events that is kind of lengthy.
I have had my idol for a little over a year now. He has always been a good eater, readily accepting pretty much anything I put in the tank, including four different kinds of algae sheets. His typical diet is PE Mysis, ON Formula 2, ON Angel Formula, and then two kinds of Sea Veggies and two kinds of ON dried seaweed.
Roughly 3 months ago, I noticed some strange behavior, mostly rapid breathing and a little lethargy. His appetite had also decreased.
I captured him and put him in my 50 gallon hospital/QT tank for observation. After about a week, he seemed to be back to his normal self, eating well, normal breathing, good swimming patterns, etc. I had added a juvi queen angel a month prior to the DT, but this fish was smaller than the idol and I never saw any hostility from it.
I kept the idol in QT to be sure everything was ok. During this time, I also added a potter's angel and a golden butterfly to the QT. The golden butterfly had a small number of flukes on it, so I treated the QT with De Los for 4 weeks. During this time, all the fish showed no adverse effects from treatment, maintained perfect appetites and eating habits and showed no aggression to each other.
All three of those fish were moved from QT into my DT this past Monday. Unfortunately, the MI is back in the same condition he was in when I first took him out. He's not really eating, and definitely swimming slower than normal. He's also spending a lot of time with the Cleaner Shrimp and Neon Gobies, which is confusing because he just went through a four week treatment with De Los. He is definitely presenting himself and opening up his gill to be cleaned.
MY DT is a 120 gallon FOWLR with the following inhabitants:
- 2 Purple Tilefish
- Blue Throat Trigger
- Juvi Queen Angel
- Eiblie Angel (yes I know i'm breaking the rules here keeping the potter and Eiblie together, but they have been cohabitating nicely)
- 5 Green Chromis
- Diamond Goby
- 2 Neon Gobies
Filtration is a 75 gallon sump in my basement with an ETSS 1000 skimmer, bioballs and a newly added ATS - 2 days old.
My water parameters are as follows: pH:8.2, Ammonia: 0, Nitrites
no test kit), Nitrates: 60 ppm. This tank has been up for almost 2.5 years and that is generally where the water parameters stay.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I haven't lost a fish in a long time and would be really bummed if this one doesn't make it. I tried to catch him tonight but was unsuccessful, I'll probably try again tomorrow.
Thanks,
Matt
I have had my idol for a little over a year now. He has always been a good eater, readily accepting pretty much anything I put in the tank, including four different kinds of algae sheets. His typical diet is PE Mysis, ON Formula 2, ON Angel Formula, and then two kinds of Sea Veggies and two kinds of ON dried seaweed.
Roughly 3 months ago, I noticed some strange behavior, mostly rapid breathing and a little lethargy. His appetite had also decreased.
I captured him and put him in my 50 gallon hospital/QT tank for observation. After about a week, he seemed to be back to his normal self, eating well, normal breathing, good swimming patterns, etc. I had added a juvi queen angel a month prior to the DT, but this fish was smaller than the idol and I never saw any hostility from it.
I kept the idol in QT to be sure everything was ok. During this time, I also added a potter's angel and a golden butterfly to the QT. The golden butterfly had a small number of flukes on it, so I treated the QT with De Los for 4 weeks. During this time, all the fish showed no adverse effects from treatment, maintained perfect appetites and eating habits and showed no aggression to each other.
All three of those fish were moved from QT into my DT this past Monday. Unfortunately, the MI is back in the same condition he was in when I first took him out. He's not really eating, and definitely swimming slower than normal. He's also spending a lot of time with the Cleaner Shrimp and Neon Gobies, which is confusing because he just went through a four week treatment with De Los. He is definitely presenting himself and opening up his gill to be cleaned.
MY DT is a 120 gallon FOWLR with the following inhabitants:
- 2 Purple Tilefish
- Blue Throat Trigger
- Juvi Queen Angel
- Eiblie Angel (yes I know i'm breaking the rules here keeping the potter and Eiblie together, but they have been cohabitating nicely)
- 5 Green Chromis
- Diamond Goby
- 2 Neon Gobies
Filtration is a 75 gallon sump in my basement with an ETSS 1000 skimmer, bioballs and a newly added ATS - 2 days old.
My water parameters are as follows: pH:8.2, Ammonia: 0, Nitrites
no test kit), Nitrates: 60 ppm. This tank has been up for almost 2.5 years and that is generally where the water parameters stay.Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I haven't lost a fish in a long time and would be really bummed if this one doesn't make it. I tried to catch him tonight but was unsuccessful, I'll probably try again tomorrow.
Thanks,
Matt
I know the trates are high, i've been in a battle against them for some time. I've tried a Remote Deep Sand Bed, and the Brightwell Xport Nitrate product, with no luck. I am hoping the ATS will take care of this problem. I can manage them with water changes, but can't really get much below the 30 to 60 range. Currently, I'm doing 25% changes every week to week and a half.
The nitrates in my QT were very similar to the nitrates in my DT too. It's definitely a concern for me though and I am working to eliminate them.
Do you think this could be the cause of idol stress? I'm planning to do a change tomorrow, so we'll see if things improve. I'm still planning to put this fish back in QT.
The nitrates in my QT were very similar to the nitrates in my DT too. It's definitely a concern for me though and I am working to eliminate them.
Do you think this could be the cause of idol stress? I'm planning to do a change tomorrow, so we'll see if things improve. I'm still planning to put this fish back in QT.
I think the trates may be the cause. I consider myself only intermediate so take it at face value. But of all the things you listed it was the only red flag in my experience. I know there are other ways in conjunction with water changes to lower nitrates such as bio pellets and carbon / vodka dosing... But i've only read about these methods and haven't ventured into that area yet. Good luck!
Last edited:
Dr Colliebreath
New member
You might have some parasites in the tank despite your good quarantine practices and it could be that the MI is the only one that is succumbing right now. If this is the case, you will need to remove all fish from the DT, treat, and let the DT remain without fish for 9-10 weeks.
One of the fish might be picking on the MI when you don't see it.
It could be a combination of the two with the stress of getting hassled causing the MI to succumb to parasites.
One of the fish might be picking on the MI when you don't see it.
It could be a combination of the two with the stress of getting hassled causing the MI to succumb to parasites.
+1
Careful with large water changes. I've heard of to many MI's dying because of it.
Really? News to me. IMO even VERY large water changes (ie the kinds I do on my QT tanks, and even my DT's from time to time) do not harm fish, if salinity and temperature are matched. If the case here truly is high nitrates causing a problem, I would not hesitate to change half the water, to find out. Corals are another story...
Is your QT cycled? Because doing too large a water change on a DT can remove too much beneficial bacteria. Correct me if i'm wrong... or please explain. Hopefully this info will benefit your MI, don't want to get off track.
You are incorrect. The biological filtration in a tank, regardless of how you do it, is not in the water, but on substrate. Simply switching out water will not change that.
Wow... Makes sense. Seems like the info I get here is better than what I learn from my LFS. This is like the third time this has happened. Love this site!!! Checked out your profile you do have alot of experience.
I'm glad you find this site helpful, and I'm also glad you aren't afraid to question others... at the end of the day, what's important is what will help make a successful aquarist, not who is right or wrong.
So true!
UPDATE: First off, I want to thank everyone for the speedy replies and apologize for not getting back earlier, I had intended to on multiple occasions, but never could find the time this weekend.
The MI is eating again, but still seems to be breathing a bit more rapidly than normal. He has stopped presenting himself to the cleaners of my tank too, which I think is a good thing. I don 't really rely on those cleaners to actually help with parasites anyway, I just think the relationship is cool to see from time to time.
I pretty much had all of the same thoughts that were put out there.
I know the nitrates are high, but they are pretty much at the same level in my QT, and the fish seemed fine there, so I don't think that was the cause.
A parasite infection is possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion just because of how quickly the symptoms showed up.
Since things seem to be almost back to normal, I am going to blame it on added stress from being introduced into a tank with more fish than the QT had. I think it may have just been a case of too many fish in too small of a box. I have plans for a 210 or 265 in the near future, so hopefully that will remedy that problem long term.
Thanks again for all the help and ideas.
The MI is eating again, but still seems to be breathing a bit more rapidly than normal. He has stopped presenting himself to the cleaners of my tank too, which I think is a good thing. I don 't really rely on those cleaners to actually help with parasites anyway, I just think the relationship is cool to see from time to time.
I pretty much had all of the same thoughts that were put out there.
I know the nitrates are high, but they are pretty much at the same level in my QT, and the fish seemed fine there, so I don't think that was the cause.
A parasite infection is possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion just because of how quickly the symptoms showed up.
Since things seem to be almost back to normal, I am going to blame it on added stress from being introduced into a tank with more fish than the QT had. I think it may have just been a case of too many fish in too small of a box. I have plans for a 210 or 265 in the near future, so hopefully that will remedy that problem long term.
Thanks again for all the help and ideas.
Outerbank
New member
That is an interesting point. I have seen my MI breathe more rapidly after water changes than my other fish. In the future I am going to make sure I aerate the freshly made seawater for at least 4 hours.
I almost lost my MI 2 months ago. It had been looking less then perfect, a little dull with some very minor fin tears, for several months. I have suspected a mild case of Amyloodinium ocellatum (marine velvet) in my tank. Well, 2 months ago I did a 25% water change and harvested about a gallon of anthelia, xenia, and sps corals. Too many toxins with the change and I became concerned about the rapid breathing. The next morning while I am at work the power goes out for 4 hours. I come home to start my generator and the idol is laying flat on the bottom of the tank. I scope him up with my hand and give him a 5 minute fresh water bath and consider euthanizing him. He is such a fighter--I decided not to give up and I placed him in the bottom of the tank propped upright in a moderate flow stream area of the tank. My YT would occasionally be a YT and give him some minor slices to add to the problem. I went back to work and just hoped for the best. I come back 4 hours later and he is swimming around a bit. He didn't eat for several days. I was shocked he survived. Long story short, he has recovered very well.
Ditto what Outerbank says about these fish being fighters. The process of getting this fish into QT from my DT a couple months ago was terribly stressful. I was beside myself because I actually thought I had probably killed it, but this fish just seems to bounce back very well.
I have noticed now on a handful of occasions that he/she will stop eating entirely. Usually it lasts for a day, or two at the most, and then right back to it's usual piggish self.
I don't currently have any circulation pumps of any kind in my DT and I am wondering if a lack of water flow could be the cause of the more rapid breathing. I don't know if this fish is similar to a PBT in that it needs a high flow environment. My blueline HD 55 return pump pushes a decent amount of water, but it comes back to the tank from my basement, so there are some head losses. I think a tunze or ecotech is in my future, so we'll see if this remedies the problem.
I'd love to see a picture of that 17 year old Yellow Tang if you have one Outerbank.
I have noticed now on a handful of occasions that he/she will stop eating entirely. Usually it lasts for a day, or two at the most, and then right back to it's usual piggish self.
I don't currently have any circulation pumps of any kind in my DT and I am wondering if a lack of water flow could be the cause of the more rapid breathing. I don't know if this fish is similar to a PBT in that it needs a high flow environment. My blueline HD 55 return pump pushes a decent amount of water, but it comes back to the tank from my basement, so there are some head losses. I think a tunze or ecotech is in my future, so we'll see if this remedies the problem.
I'd love to see a picture of that 17 year old Yellow Tang if you have one Outerbank.
Dr Colliebreath
New member
This could very well be your problem. You have a heavy fish load and definitely need a lot of water movement. I would add a MP40 or Tunze 6095 right away (don't wait).
Your high nitrates are likely caused by your high fish load and the bioballs. The bioballs tend to be very efficient at converting ammonia to nitrate before the skimmer can remove the waste. You might look into carbon dosing or biopellets to see if they can help your skimmer.
Last edited:
Or just GFO. Also, Koralias are nice, inexpensive alternatives to vortechs and tunzes. I've got a single magnum 8 on my 240 and I doubt I'll need to add any more!
I definitely like the controllability of the Tunze and MP40 pumps, but i've thought about he koralia's. I kind of have this plan to eventually work up to keeping SPS, i'm just kind of backing into with the kit I have on my tank.
I am currently trying out a product called "Clear FX". Anyone ever heard of it? Is this a GFO?
Also, no question on the bioballs and the effect they have on my system. I have been slowly removing them from my filter to prevent a crash and have plans to longterm, just use live rock for my filtration.
I just added an ATS a couple days ago and am anxiously awainting my first algae growth.
I am currently trying out a product called "Clear FX". Anyone ever heard of it? Is this a GFO?
Also, no question on the bioballs and the effect they have on my system. I have been slowly removing them from my filter to prevent a crash and have plans to longterm, just use live rock for my filtration.
I just added an ATS a couple days ago and am anxiously awainting my first algae growth.
