the secret to colorful,healthy corals....obvious to some,elusive to many
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Reefin' Dude
New member
another interesting article about algae and coral dynamics.
Effects of live coral, epilithic algal communities and substrate type on algal recruitment
G~
Effects of live coral, epilithic algal communities and substrate type on algal recruitment
G~
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Thanks, forgot the link. That's what happens when I rush.
So in essence, you are saying in this situation you would need to export more?
(I love this thread already, but I would like to hear more about the relationships between alk/light/and P & N levels.)
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Reefin' Dude
New member
if one is wanting to keep oligotrophic organisms, then the answer is always export more. 
you are removing the inorganic phosphates. you then will need to make sure everything is well fed, so you must feed more. organically bound phosphates.
we are talking hermatypic corals here. the nutrients are tightly traded between the coral and zoax. the coral brings in the food from normal feeding. its wastes then feed the hoax, which it is really in need of the inorganic phosphates, plus CO2. this in turn provides the coral some organically bound phosphates as food plus O2 for respiration. this is quite simplified, but gives the solid basics. light comes into play with population control due to phosphate levels and also the coral trying to control the amount of O2 production by the zoax. the pretty colors we see are blocking, or in some cases amplifying the light for zoax use. i need to see if i can find the corresponding thread about this on RC, if it still exists. it would have been from 2005.
G~
you are removing the inorganic phosphates. you then will need to make sure everything is well fed, so you must feed more. organically bound phosphates.we are talking hermatypic corals here. the nutrients are tightly traded between the coral and zoax. the coral brings in the food from normal feeding. its wastes then feed the hoax, which it is really in need of the inorganic phosphates, plus CO2. this in turn provides the coral some organically bound phosphates as food plus O2 for respiration. this is quite simplified, but gives the solid basics. light comes into play with population control due to phosphate levels and also the coral trying to control the amount of O2 production by the zoax. the pretty colors we see are blocking, or in some cases amplifying the light for zoax use. i need to see if i can find the corresponding thread about this on RC, if it still exists. it would have been from 2005.
G~
csauer52
New member
I'm going to test this out and see what happens. I always have low PO4 and NO3 and was running my Alk around 9. My coral colors are pretty much all washed out.
I am slowly bringing it down to around 7.8 in order to see if there truly is a correlation. Should be interesting. I guess I should take some before/after pics?
I am slowly bringing it down to around 7.8 in order to see if there truly is a correlation. Should be interesting. I guess I should take some before/after pics?
Nano sapiens
New member
While lowering the alkalinity from 9 to ~8 dKh may help somewhat with coloration, pale colored corals typically indicate a lack of nutrients via feeding. I have tested this out by going fishless in a system with no external feeding. Within a few months the SPS corals had paled noticeably. I then fed the tank as if fish were present and they recovered their original coloration. This was with an alkalinity of ~10 dKh.
The key is to feed adequately to supply nutrients to the coral, but also effectively remove the waste products (especially inorganic phosphate) via detritus removal, skimming, GFO, etc. If inorganic PO4 is not dealt with, coral growth/health will be compromised and algae will proliferate.
88rxna
New member
awesome read!
i was using API to test my nitrates until today. here are my readings:
salinity: 1.026 refractometer
PH: 7.9-8.2 (depending on time of day) milwaukee PH montior
NO3: 0 salifert
PO4:.02 hanna low range meter
MG: 1300 ELOS
CAL: 420 salifert
ALK: 8.3-9.0 salfiert
temp: 78.5 itemp on reefkeeper lite
SO, i guess im going to drop my alk down to 7.5 and see what happens. the reason for my swing is because i can only dose once at night (work). i have 2 drews dosers in the mail as we speak to fix this, along with my reefkeeper lite.
i was using API to test my nitrates until today. here are my readings:
salinity: 1.026 refractometer
PH: 7.9-8.2 (depending on time of day) milwaukee PH montior
NO3: 0 salifert
PO4:.02 hanna low range meter
MG: 1300 ELOS
CAL: 420 salifert
ALK: 8.3-9.0 salfiert
temp: 78.5 itemp on reefkeeper lite
SO, i guess im going to drop my alk down to 7.5 and see what happens. the reason for my swing is because i can only dose once at night (work). i have 2 drews dosers in the mail as we speak to fix this, along with my reefkeeper lite.
SantaMonica
Well-known member
It's been said that well fed corals, like natural corals, are generally darker.
csauer52
New member
Well I think that's the toughest piece of the equation. How do you find what those levels are? I have a 150 with ~ 50 SPS frags, most are 1"-2" in size. How much should you feed? My fish load is low:
1 Vlamingi
1 PBT
1 Purple Tang
1 6 line wrasse
1 blue chromis
1 orchid dottyback
How should you approach feeding? How much, what, how frequently etc?
elegance coral
They call me EC
With those fish, I'd keep two clips of nori in the tank pretty much at all times. On top of that, I'd feed about a cube of meaty foods, like mysis, fish eggs, Rod's food............... At least that's where I would start. Then you just have to adjust your water change/maintenance schedule to meet the load you're placing on the system.
I'm interested in some feedback on feeding frequency and amount as well. I typically just feed once per day, switching between flakes and mysis, with nori for my tang every few days. I assume this is low, but what are the recommended amounts for sps dominated tanks? I have a skimmer rated for 3x the size of my tank so I'm not worried about getting the waste out.
csauer52
New member
That's interesting and I definitely don't feed anywhere near that amount. On the topic of Nori, I use the Sea Veggies green algae and feed a quarter sheet per day. Should I do a full sheet? Half sheet?
csauer52
New member
This is an interesting point as well. I run an EV240 in my 150 and my skimmate never smells bad. Is this an indicator of underfeeding? If anything, my skimmate smells like fresh algae.
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Important to note, that only GFO removes inorganics (phosphate). Detritus removal and skimming only remove food particles.
Reefin' Dude
New member
it is important to note that removing detritus is removing the source of the inorganic phosphates. skipping an entire step. no need for GFO if the detritus is removed.
inorganic phosphates is a waste product of the decomposition of food and animal wastes. remove these then the need for inorganic phosphate binders is significantly reduced.
to me it just makes more sense to go after the source instead of the product, when the source is not something we want in the system either.
G~
inorganic phosphates is a waste product of the decomposition of food and animal wastes. remove these then the need for inorganic phosphate binders is significantly reduced.
to me it just makes more sense to go after the source instead of the product, when the source is not something we want in the system either.
G~
Nano sapiens
New member
^^
Correct. Regular detritus removal is a very effective method of controlling phosphate. GFO can be used, of course, but typically shouldn't be needed in a balanced system with regular detritus removal/WCs.
Correct. Regular detritus removal is a very effective method of controlling phosphate. GFO can be used, of course, but typically shouldn't be needed in a balanced system with regular detritus removal/WCs.
Nano sapiens
New member
Bio-markers are the most useful. Assuming all your typical parameters are spot-on, if your SPS are pale and you have very little or no algae growth, then you would slowly increase food input and observe the reaction over time. Adding more fish will accomplish this, or the addition of extra marine foods into the system.
Removal of waste products is crucial, especially as feeding increases. Regular detritus removal ('vacuuming') will go a long way to removing the source of nutrients, such as phosphate, that degrade the system.
Big E
Premium Member
If you truely have control over your system..........you should be able to adjust your nutrient export system & not have to add more food, fish, ect. It's fine to do that if your tank is void of fish or lightly stocked. In most other cases you should be able to tweek things and fine tune it.
Too many people have way too much complexity and 3-4 different types of phosphate/nitrate control tools are used. There is no need for that.
Too many people have way too much complexity and 3-4 different types of phosphate/nitrate control tools are used. There is no need for that.
