The Skimmer Comparison Chart

[RobbyG]

Question for both of you, can we even get figures like dwell time and air draw from the companies or would we have to depend on RC users? Seems to me that both would be needed to make any kind of rating system.

 

[RandyStacyE]

I assume that the manufacturers would know the skimmer's air draw, as for the dwell time ... I doubt it, but who knows.

Worth a shot, but I imagine that you will just recieve a duhhhhhh answer from some person who's just there for a paycheck if ya know what I mean

Worth a shot though.

 

[spazz]

i dont think you will get most companies to list there dwell times. but if you figure out the volume of the skimmer and then figure out the flow rates then you can get a better idea of the dwell time in the skimmer.
it would also be nice to see what the body holds for water but they dont list those numbers etiher. you cant expect these guys to call around or send emails to allthese companies to fid this information. they can get alot of it from r/c members who own these skimmers and are willing to help.


this is a great thread and in time there will be alot more information here for people to view. i really think this thread should be thread of the month. it needs to be knoticed by eveyone here on r/c . then it will have more information to look at.

 

[reef / aholic]

Where would we need to sent the information to be added to the chart?

 

[ThaNgBOm321]

yeah.. Thread of the month!! how do i vote!! ( this and the other charts with it) awsome work guys.. this one chart will answer soo many q?s alone... i really got to hand it to you guys/gals.. you guys/gals are friggin fish freeks !! ( in the best way possible of course)

Thanks for the hard work and contribution

YzGyz

 

[RandyStacyE]

I don't mean to be party pooper or the one that argues, but how on earth does one determine the dwell time based very limited information?

Honestly … pump gph ratings are based on the stock pump using a paddle wheel impeller in most cases. If the air draw is not give for the skimmer then it kind of leaves everyone with a dead end. This can become complex you see because in-sump skimmers (non recirc) differ by the depth of the water in the sump (due to head pressure). Needle wheels do decrease the gph rate in comparison to the given stock gph rate so you really can’t go by gph rate to begin with … even if an elaborate formula exists to determine the air volume displacement etc...

If the manufacturers do not supply this info (which is very easy) it leaves everyone else with this chore if this info is to be put to such a list. We also have to assume that the skimmer owner etc… has the skimmer running at the manufacturer’s specifications.

Most skimmers will skim … this is a given, but some skimmer differ greatly in price which makes us wonder what truly makes the difference? Air draw does and with that so does the skimmer’s dimensions.

This list is a very nice and WELL DONE. Changes have already been made as per some constructive criticism (title headings). Good work

 

[USC-fan]

Its really simple to find dwell time if you have the flow through rate of the skimmer and the volume.

Anyone can find the flow through rate of their skimmer by timing how long it takes to filled a gallon bag, for example. The volume is also really simple is you know the measurements of the skimmer.

Anyways that is why i said it is really easy to find dwell times for recirc skimmers because these values are all know and made available by the skimmer manufacturers most of the time.

 

[RandyStacyE]

Dwell time = reaction chamber volume ... ... ?

Air volume must be taken into consideration regardless of how long the said volume dwells. Even IF an elaborate formula exists there are also many variables to consider; like skimmer type. Different types rely on dwell time much less than others. Some types (based on their dimensions) rely more on how much air they induct rather than how long it lingers. More and much finer bubbles compensate for less larger bubbles that linger longer with much bigger skimmers.

I truly do not want a debate ... all my point is ... many if not most manufacturers will not list the most important data because the data is what distinguishes them.

Dwell time would be nice too on the list

 

[spazz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11373429#post11373429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RandyStacyE


Most skimmers will skim … this is a given, but some skimmer differ greatly in price which makes us wonder what truly makes the difference? Air draw does and with that so does the skimmer’s dimensions.

alot of what makes the high priced skimmers cost so much is the importing of them from europe. the price of everything comming from europe is going up the first of the year. watch the price of the tunze streams. i have heard from a friend of mine who owns a fish store that the prices are going up 12% the first of the year. alot of this has to due with the valuse of the dollar being low and the value of the euro being really high. the current exchange rate for the euro to dollar is 1 euro to 1.47019 US dollar so if somethig costs $1,000 in europe it will cost $1,470.19 here in the usa plus the cost of shipping it here. this is why deltec, bubble king, H&S so on and so on cost alot more than our american made skimmers do.
the only other thing that differes in a skimmer is its quality and its performance. the higher quality the higher the price. also the higher the performance the more involved it is to build a skimmer and the more parts that are involved in the building process. but in some ways a higher priced skimmer can save you money in the long run by saving energy. it cost alot to run a big skimmer and the more you can save in energy the less money you pay in the long run. i know some people say its not a big enough energy savings to pay for itself. but if you look at the cost of energy in california or florida, this is just a couple of the places where energy effecient skimers can pay for themselves in a couple of years over the cost to run other skimers.
you also have to look atthe water change inervals when your using a top of the line skimmer. you dont need to do as many water changes and they dont need to be as big of a water change if your skimmer is doing it job properly. this will save you money in salt costs, filter changes, and di resen expenses.

 

[melev]

This is another great idea, guys! I loved the entire AquariumControllers comparison site, and this is just as important. At some tpoing, I think you just need a new site called Aqua-Gear-Comparisons.com and have comparison pages for all kinds of products.

I can build you a list, whenever you are ready.

Very nice addition - and a very good idea.

 

[davidryder]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11371354#post11371354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RoBolton
Where would we need to sent the information to be added to the chart?

You can post it here or you can PM RobbyG, Straegen, or myself.

For the vast majority of buyers the information contained in the chart hits all the major points when buying a skimmer. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to gather viable/verifiable data to add categories such as dwell time, air draw, etc... those are fairly technical data and skimmer manufacturers don't seem to have a lot of technical data on their skimmers. Controllers on the other hand include most information needed to make solid comparisons in their manuals or on their websites.

If someone would like to volunteer to attempt to collect and verify this data we would be more than happy to add it to the chart

 

[davidryder]

Robby, your inbox is full.

 

[luke33]

Lets just make it easy and rate the skimmers as

bad, ok, decent, better, good, excellent and bestest

This way there won't be any confusion at all

To much debate about dwell time. Do you really thing newb's are going to worry about dwell time!

 

[spazz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11378151#post11378151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Lets just make it easy and rate the skimmers as

bad, ok, decent, better, good, excellent and bestest

This way there won't be any confusion at all

To much debate about dwell time. Do you really thing newb's are going to worry about dwell time!

yes but then they would need to have a poll for every skimmer in order to have actual useer ratings vs the companys ratings. its not easy to do what they are doing. the amount of information they have to compile is enoumous. alot of the information they recieve is more than likely from reef central members and other reefing related fourms. it would be a full time job to create actual ratings based on the customers that use them. it can be done but it wouldnt be very easy to accomplish. to start they would have to have a fourm where every type of skimmer available has its own thread or user feed back section so they can keep track of the results from all the users.

this all really depends on how indepth they want to go with this comparison chart. its an awesome idea that in time should be a great source of information for people looking to upgrade there skimmer to a higher performance skimmer.

 

[95accord]

any way to add pros and cons for skimmers?

just my 0.02

 

[luke33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11378730#post11378730 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
yes but then they would need to have a poll for every skimmer in order to have actual useer ratings vs the companys ratings. its not easy to do what they are doing. the amount of information they have to compile is enoumous. alot of the information they recieve is more than likely from reef central members and other reefing related fourms. it would be a full time job to create actual ratings based on the customers that use them. it can be done but it wouldnt be very easy to accomplish. to start they would have to have a fourm where every type of skimmer available has its own thread or user feed back section so they can keep track of the results from all the users.

this all really depends on how indepth they want to go with this comparison chart. its an awesome idea that in time should be a great source of information for people looking to upgrade there skimmer to a higher performance skimmer.

Spazz, you know that was a joke to lighten things up right.....

 

[RobbyG]

Clearing Inbox.

Thanks.

 

[RobbyG]

It's all going to be a matter of opinion unless you really do it right and setup a test bed. You would need to try each skimmer under the exact same conditions and see how well it performs and measure what it removes.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11378151#post11378151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Lets just make it easy and rate the skimmers as

bad, ok, decent, better, good, excellent and bestest

This way there won't be any confusion at all

To much debate about dwell time. Do you really thing newb's are going to worry about dwell time!

 

[luke33]

Robby, that would be the ideal test but we both know that will never happen. So this is going to be the best we have.

 

[ThaNgBOm321]

how about just a poll with all the skimmers that are on the chart... then like click the skimmer and then vote proformence for thay one skimmer that you have experience with.. put " PLEASE ONLY RATE IF YOU HAVE PERSONALLY USED THIS SKIMMER" or somthing like that to get real vote rating.... i know a lot of people will vote off of "read" info but it will be accurate enough??? i know i can rate 2 skimmers... just off performance wise.. and proformance alone. ( nothing about bang for the buck or energy.. people can figure that out w/ chart and performence rating.. )

1-10 .. 1 as suck!! 10 as elite..

tf1000 = 4
octo rps 3000 = 7

YzGyz