The T5 Q&a Thread

[GreenUku]

Hello,

I bet somewhere in this immense thread there is a decent answer to my question, but this (awesome) thread is just too huge for one reefer..

Anyway, I'm planning out a new system with a 36" long tank (deciding bewteen a 40 breeder and a 65 gal). I'm intend to keep mostly SPS and I have an IceCap 430 ballast sitting around.

My question is: how can I best make use of the ballast I have in a new T5 setup for my new tank? I assume I'll need to ge an additional ballast.

Thanks a lot.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9276823#post9276823 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
Personalky that 400Par for SPS I think ir realy a minimium. In nature where SPOS's flourish the PAR is many times that. Now where you got the 300 number for t-5's is interesting because I have yet to see a non-bias specrtrum analysis on T-5's.

As far a combining bulbs to get higher PAR values is the truth however it is not always a one to one ration. But if you had 2 bulbs equal distant from the same point and focused on it the total PAr at that point would be 2 times what one individual bulb would be,. Simularly with 8 bulbs at the same distance and focused on the same point you would 8 tames what one bulb would give you.

Now on the down side with multiple bulbs some will be closer and some witll be farther from that point. Also each bulb will have its own focus point or area and in a 8 bulb arangement it is possible that the far bubls may not even be focusing light at all on the same point. Therefore the only true means of determining what a group of bulbs will give you at any given point is to actually take measurements.

Now if one bulb were putting out a PAR of 300 at a given point it is possible for a group of 8 bulbs in a 16" fixture to give out a total of probably 900 to 2,400 at a given point, dependent upon how they were focused.

Dennis

Dennis, in nature, PAR levels are really very close to what our tanks have. The suggestion of 400 is what many light loving SPS prefer... something in the 300-400 range. I find that 300 is enough with T5s because of the coverage... more of the surface of the coral gets light so less is needed, and with a point source like a halide, then 400 is needed. Going above this into the 500-600 range is enough to photoinhibit most corals we keep. Remember that the small sliver of the sun that gets to our planet is a portion of its output at a very long distance, and most of the corals we keep are in 5-15 meters of water, sometimes 25m. Compare this to a 250watt 10,000K halide bulb... close to the bulb you have PAR readings many times that of the noon-positioned tropical sun... and we have our corals in 12-30" of depth. Of course, the penetration is nothing compared to nature, but our home reefs have similar lighting to nature, if not more than needed many times.

Sanjay suggests a goal of finding a light system that will give you peaks of about 200 at the sand. Of course, this is with halides, so you might get a couple peaks of 200 at the sand, but then other areas at the bottom with much less. T5s are at a disadvantage here, as when you have a PAR of 200 at the sand in one spot, it will be 200 across most of the bottom. I would suggest a goal of about 100 at the bottom with T5s, and that it should be done with a taller tank rather than less lights. This way, you have those PAR levels as low as 25 or 50 for your rose BTAs, or 100 for the pipe-organs.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9274406#post9274406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CorradoGuy
Thanks Grim for the input. I had read so much on MH and T5's just recently that it didn't even really occur to me that the 15k XM had such a weak par reading. This thread is awesome and I've learned so much from it.

I do have another question however.

When reading about MH's, people were saying you need a par reading of over 400, i think it was, for sps growth. But by your reading T5's are well under that. Why is it the T5's still grow sps' just fine with par reading under that? I still think T5's are awesome but just kinda wanted to know if the MH people were right about the 400par thing or if 400par for a MH and 400par on a T5 are completely different. Maybre I'm answering my own question here but could it be the par reading for all the T5 bulbs together are more than the 300ish par for the individual T5's.

Enough rambling thank for the input.

The readings are relative to the distance from the light. You want to keep your SPS corals in light levels that are in the 200-400 range for instance. And those PAR numbers that Grim has are comparing bulbs from a greater distance. PAR is relative to the distance from the bulb, and light is light... thats all.

 

[hahnmeister]

Dennis, heres about the closest 'real world' comparison you can get... same water, same tank dimensions, even the color of the bulbs are matched...

"Some might argue the validity of those numbers, since Im not exactly comparing the best performers from either category... but let me explain:

The color of both setups is very similar. Some might remember when I ran a pheonix 14,000K on this tank. I claimed that the pheonix and the T5s were a color match... and they are... but the EVC has an actinic peak that the pheonix lacks... so even though its a little duller, its an even closer color match. For those light values of the pheonix, you can simply use Sanjay's info archive to create a ratio: The EVC is perhaps the highest output 20,000K 250wattDE at an output of 64. The pheonix is at 88. So you can multiply all the numbers in the halide tank above by 88/64 to see what the pheonix would be scoring. Or, you could multiply by 126/88 for the Giesemann Coral. This may not take into account the degrading over time, but were at 5 months here... not exactly that long for a 250wattDE... pretty much the same as a car with 20,000miles.

The T5s could be brighter too... I could run the 'power combo' that I know some people use of GE 6500Ks and blue+ bulbs. Its a very bright combo... perhaps the most powerful I know of (well, with the older GE bulbs at least... now maybe Middays or Sun pro bulbs would be better).

But this is to show how combos that almost match in color look and compare PAR wise. All I gotta say is... The T5s are much better at making blue than halides are.

I would also point out that the T5s, rated as 6x39wattT5, are pulling about 270 watts. The 250wattDE OTOH, is really pulling 320watts! You know, I dont get why they didnt call m80/HQI ballasts 300watters instead of 250... like 150wattDE vs. 175wattSE to help eliminate confusion. I have yet to see a 250wattDE ballast pull less than 300 watts."

There are some other things of note that I included here, like the 5" distance that the T5s were from the water so I could take those readings... a distance that I cut in half when normally running the T5s.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1013083&perpage=25&pagenumber=8

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9274268#post9274268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cashman95
Guys please dont flame me to death here, but I have had my head in Reef Central ALL day reading about bulbs and such, at the same time taking care of my sick wife and demanding 8 month old!

Now that I have asked for forgivness for not searching this post more.....Its just sooo damn long!!!

Grim do you prefer UV bulbs over Gman? I am getting ready to order bulbs and was looking at Gman from marine depot, but after a few pages in this thread it looks like UV is your prefered taste. I would REALLY like to stick with a

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9274268#post9274268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cashman95
Guys please dont flame me to death here, but I have had my head in Reef Central ALL day reading about bulbs and such, at the same time taking care of my sick wife and demanding 8 month old!

Now that I have asked for forgivness for not searching this post more.....Its just sooo damn long!!!

Grim do you prefer UV bulbs over Gman? I am getting ready to order bulbs and was looking at Gman from marine depot, but after a few pages in this thread it looks like UV is your prefered taste. I would REALLY like to stick with all the same name brand making it easier to replace them when the time comes.

Can you explain to me why the different name brands in one light setup?

Thanks In advance for your time!!!

Please have mercy on me Flamers!!!!

Reefgeek seems to have about the best prices and sells 4 brands of lamps. I like the UVL Aquasun and Super Actinics but not the Actinic white. I am a big fan of mixing up the lamps to bet a wide spectrum of light.

I like the ATI over the Giesemanns because they have higher output, doesn't really mean the Giesemanns are bad. I just figure the raw PAR is a measure of the quality of the lamp.

Depending on the number of lamps you are using I like running the UVL Aquasun because it has some strong red in the output. Either that or the GE 3000K. The UVL Super Actinic is nice because it fluoresces the corals in the green range about as much as any T5 actinic I've seen and has a pleseant color to it the other T5 actinics don't have. The ati Blue Plus or G-mann Actinic Blue both pop red and blue colors nice. The combination of those and an actinic is nice. I liked the old style GE 6500 because it had a lot of yellow and green which helped bring out yellow and orange colors. The new one is OK but I really prefer to use it as a filler if you have another daylight lamp like the Aquasun or Giesemann Midday.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9276281#post9276281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by i2go
Hey,
Currently i have 4x54w t5's HO, individual reflectors. 2daylight 10k, and 2 actinic. I want to start getting some SPS to actuallly grow in my 50g. I was thinking of adding 2 more daylight, or actinic, which one....? or theres like UVB 6500k and UVB 11k.
thanks just throwing it out.

What brand lamps you using?

Generally you want say a couple 450nm blue lamps, 1 Actinic and a sun or daylight. I am not a big fan of the white 10K style lamps. If your "actinics" are really just blue lamps than I would add an Aquablue and a UVL Super Actinic and trade out one of those 10K's for a UVL Aquasun.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277662#post9277662 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreenUku
Hello,

I bet somewhere in this immense thread there is a decent answer to my question, but this (awesome) thread is just too huge for one reefer..

Anyway, I'm planning out a new system with a 36" long tank (deciding bewteen a 40 breeder and a 65 gal). I'm intend to keep mostly SPS and I have an IceCap 430 ballast sitting around.

My question is: how can I best make use of the ballast I have in a new T5 setup for my new tank? I assume I'll need to ge an additional ballast.

Thanks a lot.

I would use the 430 to run a couple lamps, a daylight or midday and a aquablue. and then get at least 2 regular driven Teks with a blue plus and a actinic of some type.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9276972#post9276972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scoutmaniak
Grim ive read every page of this very long thread, and still dont know the exact bulbs to buy. Im getting the "limited Editon" tek 6 bulb light, with the better refectors. They are simulare to the ice cap refectors. I want a 14k look in the tank. Not to blue, but no yellow. What would you recomend?? Im getting the light in the next few days, so chime in soon, lol. Oh and I want he daun to dusk affect. I like the 1 actinic and 1 blue plus idea, and I will use that, I just need to know the other 4 bulbs, lol. If you dont chime in before I get it, I plan to use:

Front
G-man Pure actinic 03
ATI Blue Plus
G-man 11k aquasun
GE 6500k
G-man Pure actinic 03
ATI Blue Plus

Let me know how this will look,

Michael

I'd swap at least one of the actinics for a g-mann Super Actinic. Other than that you are on the right track

 

[TropTrea]

okay what is difference between the Super Actinic and the Prue Atinics, and the so called atinic Blue's. I was on the impression that if a bulb is atinic it should have a strong predominant peak at about 420nm. So my understandings are that these other bublbs have additional peaks. But at what wave lenghts?

Dennis

 

[The Grim Reefer]

My bad, UVL Super Actinic, not G-man.. It has the 420 spike but also has some blue output too. It produces more visible light and PAR that the straight actinic does. I have a single Super Actinic T5 for my 60x18x22 tank and it lights the whole thing up really well. ATI makes or made an Actinic Blue which is just thier version of a 420 bm actinic lamp.

 

[TropTrea]

Okay so were basicly saying all three are holding a peak @ 420nm, or the "true actinic" wave lenght. The Super Actinic then has an additional peak someplace in the range of 470 nm (visual blue), rather than having a single peak @ 450nm which years ago used to sold a "brighter" actinic bulbs than the standard actinics.

Dennis

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9280219#post9280219 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
My bad, UVL Super Actinic, not G-man.. It has the 420 spike but also has some blue output too. It produces more visible light and PAR that the straight actinic does. I have a single Super Actinic T5 for my 60x18x22 tank and it lights the whole thing up really well. ATI makes or made an Actinic Blue which is just thier version of a 420 bm actinic lamp.

 

[GuySmilie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277695#post9277695 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Dennis, heres about the closest 'real world' comparison you can get... same water, same tank dimensions, even the color of the bulbs are matched...

P3K, these pix are excellent!!
It really helps to mentally visualize how the water's depth attenuates the lamps energy.
Good stuff, mange.
Guy

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9280365#post9280365 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
Okay so were basicly saying all three are holding a peak @ 420nm, or the "true actinic" wave lenght. The Super Actinic then has an additional peak someplace in the range of 470 nm (visual blue), rather than having a single peak @ 450nm which years ago used to sold a "brighter" actinic bulbs than the standard actinics.

Dennis

The Blue Plus ATI, Actinic Plus G-mann, and several others are 450nm peak blue lamps. They really didn't do much when it came to green fluorescence but they popped red and blue colors pretty sweet. The UVL looks to be almost a cross between the Blue and actinic lamps. It produces what I would call a violet light but it is much closer to blue than what the straight actinics produce. It Fluoresces the green nice but also helps a little with other colors too. I still thing running them with a blue plus is the best overall look. I know someone who is trying to get spectral plots from UVL for them so we can quite guessing about the exact output. .

 

[hahnmeister]

Hey Grim... clear out some space so I can reply to your PM. Thanks for the info.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

Done

 

[theplatypus]

I'm about to order a tek 4x54 retro and can't decide on the bulb configuration. The tank is mostly zoas,shrooms, and lps w/ a maxima and monti caps. The tank is pretty short with only 13" of water to the sandbed. I've pretty much decided on one UVl Super actinic and an ATI Blue Plus. What about the last 2 bulbs? I would like the colors to really pop, which current mh only setup doesn't provide.

 

[scoutmaniak]

Thanks Grim!! I know I can say from all of us, that were all glade your here!! Your info is great, and you never complain, or atleast to us, LOL.

 

[i2go]

Grim,
I bought them off commodityaxis.com, the brand are hellios i think or something like that. Im thinking of adding two more UVB 11,000K Marine, if its a blue color. I think my SPS would do pretty well. Of course they will be 54w, what do you think their was only a couple colors on that website.
thankss!

 

[The Grim Reefer]

You will have to e-mail Commodity axis from the web site but get 2 of their Super Blue lamps and ditch the actinics. I wouldn't mess with the UV inhanced lamps. UVB can be bad for the corals. Try adding the 2 super blues to your current mix and see what you think.