The transition to "au natural"

[pledosophy]

Over the course of a day I feed my 65g (first tank I put pictures up of) a cube of mysis by SF bay, a cube of Carnivore Cuisine by SF bay, a cube of Emerald Entree by SF Bay, a squirt of Artic Pods from Reeds, and either some Dt's or alternate phyto. It's three smaller meals over the course of the day.

I feed so much now because the tank is still new and the critter life just isn't up there yet.

The bioload for the tank is 3 fish, a pair of peppermints, and 5 snails, as well as the corals you see.

I used all the rock from a previous setup. Cooked it for 5 months, then turned down the temp and let it be a pod culture which I actively took care of for another couple of months. After everything was in the tank the only inhabitant in the first couple of months was a pair of peppermint shrimp. Once everything looked good I moved thefrags I was growing from my 20g to the display, as well as the pink spotted watchman.

The tank that looks like the macro forest from it's own post was running for a few years and had a 20g refugium underneath it. That tank was fed 6 live ghost shrimp a day. Contents were a seahorse, a pair of firefish, a six line wrasse, a lawn mower blenny, a yasha goby,and a manderin. There was also two pairs of peppermints, and several snails (don't quite remember the numbers). Upon tearing down the tank I did find a good sized thorny oyster in the refugium that I never knew was there. Being more established it was able to produce it's own foods. Everything was fat and happy . All the fish that lived in that tank were there for over two years.

Is that a really long anwser to your question?

 

[Aquarist007]

Hey Tin Man: here's pics of my filtration and tank. What I would like to do is turn my sump into what you have---how would you advise I go about doing that.

I added about 3 inches to the sand bed last night---I figured since the tank is about a year old ---the rest of the sand bed under the live rock and the live rock should be able to take the loss of temp bacteria. I didn't know whether or not to seed it from another tank?

 

[Aquarist007]

I had to break it up into two posts:

the filtration is below the tank in the basement. There is exactly seven feet from sump to tank---I'm getting about 2200gph with that mag 3600.

 

[balmiesgirl]

love the chaeto.....capn...how is that tub plumbed? and how much flow do you have running through it?

 

[Aquarist007]

drilled a bulkhead in the plastic tub--raised the tub up higher then the sump--and gravity feeds it back to the sump.

 

[dendro982]

Is that a really long answer to your question?

Oh, yes! In the best possible way!
Now will sit tight and start to study the method.
Thank you!

 

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10795699#post10795699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dendro982
Oh, yes! In the best possible way!
Now will sit tight and start to study the method.
Thank you!

Let me know if you have any questions. I miss several thread but if you PM me the thread I'll be sure to anwser. It has been very fun for me over the last few years.

Despite what is commonly seen on the boards there are many of us naturalists out there.

Good Luck.

 

[T Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10794479#post10794479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
here's pics of my filtration and tank. What I would like to do is turn my sump into what you have---how would you advise I go about doing that.

I like the cheato tank Capn', it looks like you have pretty much all bases covered as far as filtration. If you consolidated it all into one "sump/ref" as I have, it wouldn't be much of a chore. Just make a simple baffle system in a tank and decide where you want to place the the chaeto...I would recommend the center( where I have my mangroves and mud), unless you are going with the mangroves and mud also- in that case, I would go with four compartments instead of three as I have.
One thing about my sump is the LR rubble, I have tons of it and am making room for more. The other thing that I have found to be an excellent "natural" filter is bleached dead coral, there is about forty pounds in the first section as you can see under the LR rubble. IMO it is the stage before "LR" and the grass roots of "reef builders" and has served me well for many years- you might want to consider some.

 

[Aquarist007]

T-Man--what's the advantages of mangroves in mud or a rock and rubble refugium...........or in my case is there an advantage of having both--the external refugium and a section in the sump for mangroves and mud.

 

[mosthated00]

whats your lighting cycle for your chaeto?

 

[Aquarist007]

24/7 with a 25 watt energy saver bulb from Home Depot.

A month ago I had the bulb on for 16 hrs at night in reverse of the halides over the main tank---so as to minimize the nocturnal shift in pH. But since I have had it on 24/7 its tripled its mass in one month

 

[dendro982]

pledosophy:
I'm just starting to collect the information, if you remember any links - post here, please, it will be helpful for many people, who will read this thread over and over later.

I was frustrated an year ago, when after reading and trying, appeared, that the natural filtration and skimmerless tanks are possible only for sparsely fed tanks...

 

[Aquarist007]

dendro982--that's kind of an oxymoron----if you have a natural filtration system and are adding your own inverts---then you should only have to feeding sparcly

 

[dendro982]

:Sigh:
I wish, but have to ocean, only the tanks, too small for the tasks:
- one, 90g for keeping a large and messy fish, which eats a lot and wastes a lot,
- two, Christmas tree rocks in 10g, and they require a lot of feeding,
- tree, 6g nano, filled to brims by non-photosynthetic corals: chilis and gorgonians.
The feeding cannot be reduced, only cleaning and filtration could be improved.

Tried to use refugiums for all of them, each refugium ended with red cyano, acoel worms and some with dinoflagellates (bubbles in the red cyano), even with a plenty of flow, 25x and more turnover. It was not good for the tanks, had to disconnect refugiums.

The self-sufficient 5g hex, I was talking about, was set as a trial do establish the live sand from the bagged live sand, using the virtue of patience. Ended up almost abandoning it, and dumping there the corals, that had no other place to go.

Here is my miserable practically self sufficient tank (relatively speaking: very rarely changed 1/10 of water, regularly added alkalinity supplement and top-off water, may be once a week or in two-tree weeks - drop of food for mysids, power filter and later pump - for water movement only), half of year old:
Started this way:

Then become:

Later:

The clam is here temporarily, may be for a month, until the problems in the nest tank ended.

Now, with the main mass of chaeto and ochtodes removed:


But I would like to learn, how to manage refugium-like tanks, without red cyano and such, for the sake of all other tanks. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

One pitfall - the sumps/refugiums could be only with the same water level, not below the tank.

 

[Aquarist007]

that tanks looks good--if you are after the variety of stuff you have in there---and that is what this thread is about

perhaps you fuges didn't work out because they were not big enough?
the 30 gal tub was 20 dollars---light, substrate, cheato another-50 dollars.
I am actually thinking about running two refugiums---the way mine is now is that the flow rate is reduced to the point to encourage the grow of inverts and protect them, introducing them to the main tank slowly.

Cheato does such a fine job consuming nitrates and phosphates (if you harvest it ) that I was thinking of turning my sump into another refugium where the increased flow would assist the filtration of my system. this is why I became interested in T-man's system

don't give up---I see this as the future and true filtration way to go.

As for controling the cyano and algae growth run two phosban reactors one with carbon and the other with phosban--they do wonders and a reactor is about 35 dollars.
Here's a pic:

 

[audio101]

I'm curious about the benefits of a rubble refugium also?

 

[Aquarist007]

Here's a good link:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm

 

[sabbath]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10806420#post10806420 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by audio101
will not curious about the benefits of a rubble refugium also?

I would like to know this one as well. I have read posts in the filtration forums. That you need larger live rock to break down nitrates. That rubble will not do it. You need the low oxygen area that is deeper into the rock.

 

[edwar050]

I know exactly where your coming from. I am almost overskimming my 120 with a modified octopus skimmer. I need to start dosing low ammounts of mag and iodine as well as bump up water changes. I also have a couple of mangroves and have been fairly happy with them though there growth rate sucks.

 

[T Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10802449#post10802449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
what's the advantages of mangroves in mud or a rock and rubble refugium

I have noticed that the mangroves grow better in a "mineral mud" substrate versus sand or crushed coral etc. after all, mud is the natural source for the nurtients that they require for growth in the wild. As far as advantages, mangroves remove nitrates plain and simple, just because they are slow growers does not mean that they function any different. I used to have exceptional growth with 175 w MH @ an 8 hr photoperiod, but had a problem with two of the plants overshadowing the remaing trees and ultimately starving them of light- since then, I have planted a dozen more and use a plain old flourescent light for illumination which gives me a nice consistent growth rate and no more competition.
Now, the rubble works virtually the same way as the larger rock in the display with the advantage of more surface area. Nitrates have never been an issue with the mangroves and yes, I totally agree that "You need the low oxygen area that is deeper into the rock". That is why I use the mangroves and mud.
One thing that I have not explained is my theory of success with LPS and clams. While I was in the Marine Corps twenty years ago, I spent two years in the Pacific basically around the Marianis island chain and the other side of the equator (south Pacific) in the coral sea to include the great barrier reef. I spent every precious moment of my "liberty" in the water and grew quite interested in the "lagoonal" species specifically LPS and giant clams- I was hooked! I knew then that the only way to have success with keeping anything for extended periods of time,I would have to emulate the natural "biotope" of the lagoon.
This is what I've come up with, a slightly lowered PH and salinity due to the buffering by the surrounding sand bed and the mangroves, well......they keep the nitrates at bay. I can only say from my expirience, anecdotal as it is, it works for me. TinMan