The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[Travis L. Stevens]

Not really. The only time limestone/aragonite will help buffer the water is when the pH drops to about 7.8. Significant loss of aragonite will start to appear at about 7.4-7.0. In short, I wouldn't rely on this as an actual buffer. You'll see things go awry in your tank well before this stuff has a chance to dissolve and release Calcium and Carbonate back into your system.

 

[scarter]

great comment travis. so aside from surface area, what benefit does genuine LR have over concrete?

 

[scarter]

sorry DP

 

[CoolUsername]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7856489#post7856489 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by schaadrak
"Ceramic" is a term that could also mean concrete or cement.

Ceramic:
Any of various hard, brittle, heat-resistant and corrosion-resistant materials made by shaping and then firing a nonmetallic mineral, such as clay, at a high temperature.

Ceramic is clay shaped and fired using heat to form it. Concrete is a substance formed from a chemical reaction between water and a cement(portland cement) to bind aggregates(sand,gravel) together.

What they are talking about are these ceramic backings and rock:

http://www.captiveoceans.com/mm5/me..._Code=CO&Product_Code=KWD01&Category_Code=BWP

Hope this helps

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7875532#post7875532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scarter
great comment travis. so aside from surface area, what benefit does genuine LR have over concrete?

Live Rock - Biological filtration, wide variety of life including micro and macro fauna and flora. HITCHIKERS! (Good and Bad). Natural Source. Calcium Bicarbonate
Old DIY Rock - Custom Shapes, easy to make, looks good. Some Calcium Bicarbonate
Ultimate DIY Rock - All of the above! Well, maybe not the wide variety of hitchikers or the wide variety of pre-colonized life, but you can accomplish that by putting it in the ocean (which is out of the question for me )

Really, the only Cons I see to Ultimate DIY Rock is that it has to be seeded from live rock (either from the ocean or from someone's tank) and that it will never have the variety of life forms that the real stuff has. But that is only a minor setback compared to the huge advantage of custom shapes, lots of saved money, same biological filtration, and the fun that you have making it. Plus, if you are very careful, you can have a sterile tank from pests that often come in on live rock such as Aiptasia, Majanos , Dorid and Aeolid nudibranchs, Flatworms, Hydroids, Polychaete worms, Mantis Shrimp, Gorilla Crabs, and the list goes on. This type of rock is perfect for the special aquariums that need safety catches such as Seahorse Fry Rearing Tanks and other such delicate animals.

 

[RandyStacyE]

Once DIY rock is completely cured and 'stable' etc... It could be cool to place the rock for quite some time in the ocean. Keep making your rock as a hobby, stockpile it somewhere (in the ocean) and use, sell or trade your live rock.

I would if I lived near the ocean. You'll probably pick up a bunch of little life forms in the process.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7856684#post7856684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scrager
i hope you aren't planning on making rocks out of plaster. plaster will disolve in water.

ceramic isn't necessarily cheap. there is thread on here about it somewhere. it's basically a type of clay, then you have to fire it. that means you need a kiln or know someone who does. they aren't cheap and people that have them use them so they would probably charge you to use it as well.

True about the plaster. You can buy "Vacation blocks" which dissolve in the aquarium releasing bits of flake food slowly over a few days.

Ceramics are great. You can choose from a local school system's self improvement classes or a community college for a ceramics class. These can be cheaper and more flexible than many private ceramics classes.

 

[don954]

has anyone tried biodegradable packing noodles for making tubes and caves? They will dissolve in water after a little while, but should last in concrete long enough to harden.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7884500#post7884500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by don954
has anyone tried biodegradable packing noodles for making tubes and caves? They will dissolve in water after a little while, but should last in concrete long enough to harden.

It was discussed a few pages back. I would venture to guess that they would dissolve almost completely by the time you get the water and cement mixed to the correct consistancy

 

[RandyStacyE]

I think it was this thread that discussed using the biodegradable peanuts. They first sprayed them with 'schalack' so they didn't disolve for a while.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I don't remember them spraying with shalack, but I remember someone eating some possibly non-biodegradable ones

 

[RandyStacyE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7885643#post7885643 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
I don't remember them spraying with shalack, but I remember someone eating some possibly non-biodegradable ones

Maybe it was a different thread. After 30 pages you loose track.

 

[dez_2121]

help help help first batch failing got a question about the mix is it 1 part cement to 3 or 4 parts salt or is it the other way around reason im asking is that my first batch was curing out of water for about 3 days and in the water about 2 or 3 days and now its like brittle to the tuch im afrade that at the end of 6 weeks its all going to fall apart can i get a little help please!!!!

 

[ezfelker]

I had/have the same problem - thin pieces break off and the surface can be compressed with pressure. I've been drying for a longer period (1 week) and the rock has gotten stonger with time in the water, but clearly not as strong as regular rock. I can't decide if it's due to the low rock to volume ratio or because I'm making them wrong, but it seems to me that a 1:3-4 (cement:salt) ratio will always result in a 'light' rock that is simply not as strong. It's 75% air afterall.

I've made some 1:1 and 1:2, just to experiment, but what I would really like to know is has anyone used the high ratio rock in a tank for an extended period, especially in a large tank where the rock will be stacked. I read the posts about weight and I know the rock won't 'fail' (I've got a 30gal trashcan full), but little pieces seem to be continually falling off, probably since the rock is rubbing together. It makes me a little nervous.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7888490#post7888490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezfelker
I had/have the same problem - thin pieces break off and the surface can be compressed with pressure. I've been drying for a longer period (1 week) and the rock has gotten stonger with time in the water, but clearly not as strong as regular rock. I can't decide if it's due to the low rock to volume ratio or because I'm making them wrong, but it seems to me that a 1:3-4 (cement:salt) ratio will always result in a 'light' rock that is simply not as strong. It's 75% air afterall.

I've made some 1:1 and 1:2, just to experiment, but what I would really like to know is has anyone used the high ratio rock in a tank for an extended period, especially in a large tank where the rock will be stacked. I read the posts about weight and I know the rock won't 'fail' (I've got a 30gal trashcan full), but little pieces seem to be continually falling off, probably since the rock is rubbing together. It makes me a little nervous.

You know. I had no way of telling what the ratio was, so I juat guessed at it. Since I don't know how much water is needed, I add it as I go. Sometimes I get it far too wet and have to add more cement, therefore skewing the ratio. I would like to state from here on in that I wouldn't go over 1:3 ratio. I'm beginning to think that some of my rock is 1:2 ratio. Sorry for any inconvenience this might have on anyone, but hey. It's a work in progress

For what it's worth, I have my rock in my tank for about a year now and I have no problem with it. It's about 80%+ ratio of DIY to Live. I have two 2g cubes that are being set up as 100% DIY Rock as well as a 75g that will be 100% DIY Rock. Lastly, I had a 50g Trash Can filled to the rim with DIY Rock out of the water and none of them got crushed and they sat like that for two weeks.

 

[ezfelker]

No worries. Experimenting with cement beats the heck out of yard work!

I took my 1:2 out of the molds last night. They seem much more solid, but I'm going to let them sit for another week before putting them in the water.

I made a 1:1 about a week ago, but just dropped it into the bucket with the other rock. Now I can't ID it...I suppose it must look reasonably good. I'm going to try a larger 1:1 batch this weekend. I'd actually like to do a 2:1:1 (salt:cement:sand), but can't find any non-silica sand (eg Southdown) near Philly.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I don't know if your area has this, but in the Dallas, TX area, they have been able to find "Pavestone: Pulverized Limestone" at Home Depots. I had a friend bring me back 200 lbs and the stuff looks fantastic. The only bad part that I see so far is that it is VERY DUSTY (which is no problem for making rocks) and that when you look at it under a magnifying glass, it is definitely not pure. There are occassional pieces of shiny, transluscent grains. Most likely Quartz Crystal (SiO2). I just added 100lbs in my new 75g and it looks great. It easily filled it to 3"+

 

[crackyflipside]

Hi guys, I am extremely interested in making some DIY rock for my cousin and some for myself when I start my SW tank.

I have a few questions, when you use salt rocks in the mix, what is the right type of rock salt to use and is it incorporated into the cement mix or do you just put it around the outside of the cement?

Is it safe to use plastics on the inside to make a skeleton structure to form the cement around?

 

[bnplu]

crackyflipside,
This thread has been a great one to watch grow and grow. I've gotten alot of good info from this and has also been alot of fun. The type of salt is rock salt used for water softening. You can get it at HD for pretty cheap. I like the blue bag.
When you get a chance and have some time skim through the pages of this thread and enjoy!

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7895220#post7895220 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crackyflipside
I have a few questions, when you use salt rocks in the mix, what is the right type of rock salt to use and is it incorporated into the cement mix or do you just put it around the outside of the cement?

It was said towards the beginning of the thread. I posted pictures and an MSDS sheet. I highly recommend that you try to find the salt that I use because it is 100% Sodium Chloride. If you cannot find the salt, make sure that you get MSDS sheets to make sure that it is Sodium Chloride as pure as you can find. The last thing you want to do is accidently introduce heavy metals into your aquarium.

The salt that you use can be done both ways. I put the salt in the mix and then sculpt it free hand. I've tried using the salt as a mold, but I wasn't that pleased with my attempt. But it was just a matter of opinion. There are some people that do a wonderful job using it as a mold. SpeckledTrout posted some AMAZING rocks back in this thread.

Is it safe to use plastics on the inside to make a skeleton structure to form the cement around?

Yes it is. I would only use PVC though. After all, it's cheap and you can get a lot of it. I guess you could cut up your mother's tupperware, but I don't think she would like it