The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

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what I was asking was about curing in open air. Water serves to make the concrete cure slower thereby makeing it harder. I am asking if drying concrete in open air has any ill effects on the product. I have air cured 5 pieces of DIY rock and am curious if anyone else has done this. Most people get the idea from garf and garf says cure in water. my question is besides hardness, is there any reason to cure in water or are we all just following the herd?
 
Your curing in water to get the pH down. My rock at a week in the tub are still leaching with a ph 11.5. Letting them sit out in the air for a month won't do anything.

Second you have to get all the salt out of these rocks as well
 
Has anyone added wet or uncured DIY rock to their already cured rock to get the cave that the want? If not, is there any way that it wouldn't be possible to do such thing?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7439635#post7439635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Covey
Your curing in water to get the pH down. My rock at a week in the tub are still leaching with a ph 11.5. Letting them sit out in the air for a month won't do anything.

Second you have to get all the salt out of these rocks as well

so what you are saying is that the air cured rocks are in a type of "Limbo" and when I put them in water the curing process starts then? I thought the high PH was due to the chem reactions of the rock as it cures. since it cures slower in water, wouldent the curing process take less time in open air?
 
No, the rection with the water and the lime of the cement is what is causing the high pH. The mixing of the cement is causing heat because of chemical reactions, though. Soaking it in water allows the water to work through the cement to dissolve it down to a managable level.
 
Process with Pictures

Process with Pictures

Well, I went home and took a nap. Eventually I decided to do a small batch of rocks for everyone to see. It's not much because I was mainly doing it for pictures. But here you go.

First start with a clean slate. For those in apartments, that lack the room, or just don't want to go to a better place to work. Then make sure that you protect your work area.
CleanSlate.jpg


Second, get everything that you need ready. As you can see, I have my buckets, salt, cement, water, and pans. You'll see later that I'm not using gloves, but I don't recommend it. Please, use protective gear such as gloves and eye protection (I was wearing my glasses)
Tools.jpg


Now, pour some salt in the bucket. Since the bulk of the mixture is salt, you will need as much salt as you want rock
SaltBucket.jpg


Now, add your Portland Cement
SeperateMix.jpg


Now, Mix the dry stuff together.
DryMix.jpg


Now, Add water slowly. The more water you add at once, the more the salt melts. You need to work relatively quickly. Don't leave it unattended. Personally, I like to add a little too much water at first, and then add a little extra cement until I find a texture that I like.
Mixed.jpg


This is an example of the thickness and texture. It was a little more watery then I wanted, but I was starting to get tired, so I went with it. You can get it pretty thick and be able to sculpt out of it rather well.
Texture.jpg


Now, just put it down with your method of choice. I tried three different things last night.
----Regular, randomly dropped method on a pan
FinalRock.jpg


----In a bucket with salt for a free-form shape. I placed layers of sand for indentions and caves.
RockBucket.jpg


----A bunch of small pieces. I'll later cement these together to attempt to make a Tonga Branch look alike
TongaPieces.jpg


And that's all there is to it. Clean up is easy. Just use LOTS of water and you can clean your equipment up in a bathtub.
 
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Salt Size

Salt Size

Someone before was asking about the size of the salt. I have a few pictures for those that are curious about it. Also, remember, once you add water to mix it up, the salt shrinks a little.

Here is the salt close up
Salt.jpg


Here is a cool picture that I took by accident
CoolSalt.jpg
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7442872#post7442872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
No, the rection with the water and the lime of the cement is what is causing the high pH. The mixing of the cement is causing heat because of chemical reactions, though. Soaking it in water allows the water to work through the cement to dissolve it down to a managable level.

thats the answer I was looking for, thanks
 
Regarding the curing of cement to concrete. I manage a mfg company that makes concrete tile.

Cement cures with moisture. I'm sure that putting the rocks in water works fine, albeit slow.

Another method would be to cure the rocks using a 100% humidity cure. This can be accomplished by shrink-wrapping the rocks, i.e. wrapping the rocks w/ saran wrap to keep all the moisture in. I used this method to make a few rocks--I'll let you all know how they turn out. I plan on letting them cure, wrapped, for a few days then moving them into a container of water to finish. I think the curing cycle will be shortened, without a dramatic reduction in strength.

To shorten it even further, heat could be added to the wrapped tile. An electric blanket would be ideal to accomplish this. Heat accelerates the curing process, but could add to the rock's brittleness. Something to try, however.

-Jamie
 
Where were tripping up here is we are combining the lingo from two different businesses or hobbys.

Curing in the cement industry means something totally different than what it means in this hobby.

So for cement industry people we are talking about something entirely different from what you guys are thinking but thanks for the help.

Nice step by step Travis.
 
I had been doing some trials myself, and just found this thread - would have liked to have seen it first, lol. I would have thought the addition of that much salt would retard the curing process, but it really looks like that is incorrect - this changes things a bit for my batch - will be replacing 2 parts of something with 2 parts of salt - probably use a
1cement:2salt:1crushed rubble/shell1:sand

Can't add much to this, but here are a few things I have used in the past...

The best way I found to make lace rock or branch, was to use the dreaded sand mould, but using plastic wrap/film to line the mould so sand wouldn't adhere. If you are careful, you can use the natural wrinkles the wrap is going to form to leave striation <sp?> like imprints. Work (form) it in 1/4's, then cement the pieces together, for 3d shapes.

Balloons can also be used to great effect. "Double-bagging" seems to work best, then fill with water to form a loose bag. Mound mix over, leaving the knot visible (or if using a form like sand, create hole, fill somewhat, then add balloon), then when rock is hard simply pop balloon and pull out by knot.
The balloons clowns use to make things like hats and animals for kiddies are fun to use as well. Embedding one of these in a sand mold, then filling, leaves an awesome tunnel...

If you find a spot on a piece that doesn't look right, you can either try a chisel (or flat blade screwdriver) to work it a bit, or what usually works best is a cosmetic fix with the addition of fresh cement mix.

Increase sand movement by building a "table" (as seen on GARF), to lift the rock off the sand, but use plastic grating or thick acrylic to strengthen the over all piece (I like the stuff you find on office building lights).

Using a waterproof glue 'sketti noodles to some cheap fabric, use 1-2" pieces and if done right, can be used to simulate coral skeletons by sort of blotting the wet cement with the finished bit. Sort of hard to explain - I was planning on making one - will try to get pic's... You can also use those fake plastic plants to make impressions of "dead" leaves and stuff...

This stuff can be a blast to make - sometimes it is addictive, and seems the more you make the better you get at it
:rollface:

Have fun!
 
I think I have a memorial weekend project now...

I'm gona make some rocks!!!

The growth of this process is flipping awesome.

It looks like Travis has the most important part of this figured out for us - the way to get the best rock composition - with salt & cement. Now I think this is a point in time for some real creativity in ways to create different types of rocks, make the shape more realistic & interesting, etc.

Consider this a challenge to all. Make up some batches of Salt Rocks. Come up with some crazy ways to form some interesting shapes, etc. Post your methods, results & pics here.

That's my plan for the weekend! :)

(...other then whatever my wife dreams up for me around here... :) )
 
Hi all. I was wanting to make some rocks myself. Mainly just disks for frags. I have never worked with cement before. I originally bought the portland type 1/11 cement and i bought the crushed oyster shells. Someone told me white cement would cure faster so i took the portland back and got some white cement. I dont know about other cements but this had like little threads in it. Anyway i wasnt sure how much to mix up so i just mixed some cement and oyster shells together. I ended up with way more mixture than i needed to make my disk. I was filling the bottom of bathroom cups to make the frag disk. By time i filled 80+ cups i wanted to be done so i made a cool rock out of a plastic cat food container i had. I cut the container in half and filled it up. Here was my finished rock:
garfield001.jpg


My disk i thought would just pop out of the plastic cups but i was wrong so i know have to cut the cups to get the disk out. I have a 150 i soon want to set up so i figured to prepare to save some money on live rock i would try and make my own but figured for practice i would make my frag disk. Just wanted to share my pic.
 
Question about curing (prob a dumb question, but...)
Can I cure diy rock in the aquarium that it will be housed in?
I have my cichlid tanks run to a sump with continious water change system (1 GPH dripper, W/overflow to a drain)
I can set up (my reef to be)the same way and watch my rocks cure.

Will the leaching/curing process have any adverse effect on the tank I plan to use for my reef?
 
well, the curing process does produce a thick white film on the surface of the water. i had cured rocks in rubbermaid tubs and they had the white film all over after i was finished and it doesn't just wash off. might be easier to get off of glass with a razor and some hard scrubbing, but i think it would be easier/safer to do it out of the tank

there's not really much to watch. the ph will be too high for most anything interesting in the beginning, then you'll just get algae when the ph starts coming down.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7024895#post7024895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
Third Batch

Cons: A little more fragile. Residule salt is left inside the rock.


In a proper cure out, 02 is introduced to the curing water via a airstone (this causes a calcium compound to be formed in the rocks, making them safer and stronger)..

One wonders if you could hasten the salt leech with a mildly caustic bath, say, vinegar or muraitic acid...
 
I know that there is nothing to watch while curing, I was kidding about that part.
The reef is going in the living room where my FW show tank currently is. I figure the sooner I move tanks & livestock to accomidate the reef, the better.
The tank will have a powerhead for circulation and a continuous water change. (75 g tank, 1 gph constant FW addition with overflow to drain)
With movement and constant water change, do you think I'll build up any scum/crud/film from the curing process?
 
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