Travis L. Stevens
New member
:lmao: You got it :beer:
...Drunk fly fishing.... Interesting concept and a funny sight to see.
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter Travis L. Stevens
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:lmao: You got it :beer:
...Drunk fly fishing.... Interesting concept and a funny sight to see.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
Better idea than the lake...
(always the chance of teenagers findng my rocks & setting them free)
I can set them in a creek on a friends ranch that is behind gates & I have a key.
He's got about 3 miles of "Sixteen Mile Creek" on his place, some of "A River Runs Through It" was filmed there.
I've done some fly guiding, and there is almost always a drunk fly fisherman on hand. You're correct, it's a sight to behold:lol:
I'll have a batch of my favorite flies tied up, waiting for you!
(always the chance of teenagers findng my rocks & setting them free)
I can set them in a creek on a friends ranch that is behind gates & I have a key.
He's got about 3 miles of "Sixteen Mile Creek" on his place, some of "A River Runs Through It" was filmed there.
I've done some fly guiding, and there is almost always a drunk fly fisherman on hand. You're correct, it's a sight to behold:lol:
I'll have a batch of my favorite flies tied up, waiting for you!
captbunzo
Premium Member
Ok. So I have mixed up 2 batches of rock over the weekend. The first, I think, I am not so happy with. The second turned out much better...
The First Batch
First I dumped in 5 parts salt and 1 part cement. Then I screwed up by adding a bit of water BEFORE I mixed the dry materials... Crud...
So I fixed that and mixed it all up. We made about half the stuff into sand molds and the other half on flat sheets of plastic, mostly with some rock salt underneeth to give the underside a little tecture.
My real problems/concerns with the finished product? First, I am a pretty concerned that the rock is just not going to be very strong. I am attributing this to (a) too much salt in the mixture and (b) too little water added to the mixture. Of course, this is a best guess and I really have no freaking clue.
Anyhow, we took the first batch and put them in a tub to soak in water after about 24 hours (which was yesterday). I will probably go out today to take a look and see how solid the rocks feel after another 24 hours of curing.
The Second Batch
......went MUCH better, as things tend to do after a little practice.
First of all, my wife and I both thought that lowering the salt : cement ratio was a good idea. So for batch #2, we went with 3:1 salt:cement. And the end mix had overall more water, which I think was good.
I also discovered a nice method for mixing both the dry and the wet mix. It was better, I believe, both because it got a better mix and it was a lot less messy on the hands.
First, I added the salt and cement in layers. This helped to kick start the mix. And I mixed a reasonably small batch -- the salt and cement dry mix probably only filled about a fourth or third of the bucket. And then to actually mix both the dry and wet mixture, I tipped the bucket over at about a 45 degree angle and then quickly rotated the bucket back and forth. I pretty easily was able to figure out a pattern of motion which caused the mixture to flop over on itself and churn nicely.
Anyhow, I feel like it mixed more thoroughly then when I did it by hand. Or maybe that is just a fantasy idea just to keep my hands clean.
Our next big discovery was that instead of using sand molds, I bought an extra bag of salt and we used it to mold the rock. I started by putting about an inch or 2 of salt into the rubbermade tubs. Then I sort of three dimensionally sculpted in layers from the bottom down, alternating the adding of cement and then pouring in some more salt around that cement layer.
Also, when opening up one of the bags of salt, we saved aside some bigger chunks of salt that were stuck together. We then used these in our rock forming to create caves, holes, etc. This could have been done with loose salt. But the chunks held together better. And if you pick "hard" bags of salt from Lowes/HD, then you are guaranteed to get a few pieces in every bag.
Using the above techniques, I was EXTREMELY please with our ability to sculpt rock which, I believe, will be a LOT more interesting. Primarily, the resulting rock will be, I believe, a lot more three dimensionally sculpted and less two dimensional, like our first batch.
And by using rock salt for molding, any residual "mold material" will just wash/dissolve off in the curing process. I think this will create a more interesting tecture on outside surface of the rock.
And lastly, the mold mixture is reusable. I think a good system would be to use your the mold salt from your last batch as the rock salt for your next batch. If you kept using the same salt for your mold, I suspect you would eventually have to replace it. This way you'll waste a little less rock salt.
Anyhow, I will probably let batch two set for another day and then pull them out and see how they look. Or maybe I will get impatient and pull them out today. We'll see.
And I'll post some pics eventually...
The First Batch
First I dumped in 5 parts salt and 1 part cement. Then I screwed up by adding a bit of water BEFORE I mixed the dry materials... Crud...
So I fixed that and mixed it all up. We made about half the stuff into sand molds and the other half on flat sheets of plastic, mostly with some rock salt underneeth to give the underside a little tecture.
My real problems/concerns with the finished product? First, I am a pretty concerned that the rock is just not going to be very strong. I am attributing this to (a) too much salt in the mixture and (b) too little water added to the mixture. Of course, this is a best guess and I really have no freaking clue.
Anyhow, we took the first batch and put them in a tub to soak in water after about 24 hours (which was yesterday). I will probably go out today to take a look and see how solid the rocks feel after another 24 hours of curing.
The Second Batch
......went MUCH better, as things tend to do after a little practice.
First of all, my wife and I both thought that lowering the salt : cement ratio was a good idea. So for batch #2, we went with 3:1 salt:cement. And the end mix had overall more water, which I think was good.
I also discovered a nice method for mixing both the dry and the wet mix. It was better, I believe, both because it got a better mix and it was a lot less messy on the hands.
First, I added the salt and cement in layers. This helped to kick start the mix. And I mixed a reasonably small batch -- the salt and cement dry mix probably only filled about a fourth or third of the bucket. And then to actually mix both the dry and wet mixture, I tipped the bucket over at about a 45 degree angle and then quickly rotated the bucket back and forth. I pretty easily was able to figure out a pattern of motion which caused the mixture to flop over on itself and churn nicely.
Anyhow, I feel like it mixed more thoroughly then when I did it by hand. Or maybe that is just a fantasy idea just to keep my hands clean.
Our next big discovery was that instead of using sand molds, I bought an extra bag of salt and we used it to mold the rock. I started by putting about an inch or 2 of salt into the rubbermade tubs. Then I sort of three dimensionally sculpted in layers from the bottom down, alternating the adding of cement and then pouring in some more salt around that cement layer.
Also, when opening up one of the bags of salt, we saved aside some bigger chunks of salt that were stuck together. We then used these in our rock forming to create caves, holes, etc. This could have been done with loose salt. But the chunks held together better. And if you pick "hard" bags of salt from Lowes/HD, then you are guaranteed to get a few pieces in every bag.
Using the above techniques, I was EXTREMELY please with our ability to sculpt rock which, I believe, will be a LOT more interesting. Primarily, the resulting rock will be, I believe, a lot more three dimensionally sculpted and less two dimensional, like our first batch.
And by using rock salt for molding, any residual "mold material" will just wash/dissolve off in the curing process. I think this will create a more interesting tecture on outside surface of the rock.
And lastly, the mold mixture is reusable. I think a good system would be to use your the mold salt from your last batch as the rock salt for your next batch. If you kept using the same salt for your mold, I suspect you would eventually have to replace it. This way you'll waste a little less rock salt.
Anyhow, I will probably let batch two set for another day and then pull them out and see how they look. Or maybe I will get impatient and pull them out today. We'll see.
And I'll post some pics eventually...
Travis L. Stevens
New member
I've got my last batch soaking in the tub. I didn't get to put together my make shift Tonga Branch yet. I'll get pictures of everything when I get it all set up. The rock formed in the salt makes for good ways to make interesting caves and crevices. For some reason, I still prefer the pan sheet method.
captbunzo
Premium Member
Ok. Here's a question. I am working on a method to setup the curing process to work with an automated water change. Here is what I have been thinking.
I don't really have any extra space to set this up for curing inside my house. So I was thinking about putting the tub some place outside. As for doing the water changes, I was planning on some sort of constant, low flow through the system - probably something like 25-50 Gallons per day. And I'll use a powerhead with the airator attached to keep the oxygen level up in the water.
Water In: Attach Tee to spigot outside of house and put a converter on on branch of the Tee-d spigot that converts down to 1/4 tubing (the same size used for RODI & fridge water lines). Run that to the tub and put a valve on it to limit down the flow.
Water Out: This is a little tougher. I was HOPING that I could let this just flow out of the tub and seep into the ground. The question is, how bad of a thing is this to do? I mean this is water with a pretty high alkalinity. Or at least it would be if left to sit without the flow.
1. Is it ok to let this flow into the ground at all?
2. If this flows into the ground, is it going to kill of anything green growing there?
3. Do I REALLY need to find a way to run this down the drain?
If I can just let it run out, that would simplify things ENORMOUSLY. But I want to at least be aware of what I am doing to my dirt, first.
I don't really have any extra space to set this up for curing inside my house. So I was thinking about putting the tub some place outside. As for doing the water changes, I was planning on some sort of constant, low flow through the system - probably something like 25-50 Gallons per day. And I'll use a powerhead with the airator attached to keep the oxygen level up in the water.
Water In: Attach Tee to spigot outside of house and put a converter on on branch of the Tee-d spigot that converts down to 1/4 tubing (the same size used for RODI & fridge water lines). Run that to the tub and put a valve on it to limit down the flow.
Water Out: This is a little tougher. I was HOPING that I could let this just flow out of the tub and seep into the ground. The question is, how bad of a thing is this to do? I mean this is water with a pretty high alkalinity. Or at least it would be if left to sit without the flow.
1. Is it ok to let this flow into the ground at all?
2. If this flows into the ground, is it going to kill of anything green growing there?
3. Do I REALLY need to find a way to run this down the drain?
If I can just let it run out, that would simplify things ENORMOUSLY. But I want to at least be aware of what I am doing to my dirt, first.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Since it is a matter of the cement leaching out into the water, I would assume that flow has little to do with it. It will help the salt though. My guess is water changes would be the best because water can only hold so much until it reaches saturation. Now, if you could find a way to either supersaturate the water or find something that can use what is leached in the water, then you might have something on your hands. When Doug "dugg" did his rock wall, he had a fair amount of success using sugar and yeast. Supposedly the bacteria was able to use the chemicals being leeched out and was able to shorten the curing process. But truthfully, without more information, it sounds like more wishful thinking than anything. There is a chance that the bacteria can use the available chemicals in the water, but I have no proof whether or not that it actually works.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
You know, those are really good questions in that post about a curing set up. I'm not sure what would happen to flora around your curing bin. I would guess very little since Portland Cement is limestone. You might need to look up information on limestone being used in yards to see if it has any adverse effects.
captbunzo
Premium Member
Thanks for the quick response, Travis.
Well, concerning flow vs. water changes. The idea is that the water is being saturated by curing crud. And by changing out the water, you are allowing that crud to continue too leach out of the water.
My thought is this. It would be possible, but much more complicated, to setup a system that automatically changed out the water once per day. At this point in time, I am not going to go through that much effort. I don't really want to spend the money to accomplish something like that.
So, the next best thing (and possibly even better, by some reasoning) is to do a constant slow water change. And just like in a Reef Tank, the way to do this is flow new water in, forcing old water to flow out. So by "flow". I was talking about the total amount of new water that was going to be introduced into the system daily. And that, for my tub(s) was going to be aimed at around 25-50 gallons per day.
A better number would simply be to replace all the water in the tub X times per day, where X is between 1-4. Anything beyond that would probably be silly.
And the point with automating this is to make sure it actually happens. I can tell you, I am WAY too lazy to manually change the water once or more times per day.
See where I am heading with the "flow" plan now?
Well, concerning flow vs. water changes. The idea is that the water is being saturated by curing crud. And by changing out the water, you are allowing that crud to continue too leach out of the water.
My thought is this. It would be possible, but much more complicated, to setup a system that automatically changed out the water once per day. At this point in time, I am not going to go through that much effort. I don't really want to spend the money to accomplish something like that.
So, the next best thing (and possibly even better, by some reasoning) is to do a constant slow water change. And just like in a Reef Tank, the way to do this is flow new water in, forcing old water to flow out. So by "flow". I was talking about the total amount of new water that was going to be introduced into the system daily. And that, for my tub(s) was going to be aimed at around 25-50 gallons per day.
A better number would simply be to replace all the water in the tub X times per day, where X is between 1-4. Anything beyond that would probably be silly.
And the point with automating this is to make sure it actually happens. I can tell you, I am WAY too lazy to manually change the water once or more times per day.
See where I am heading with the "flow" plan now?
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Ya, I understand completely. I have all my rock in our second bathroom's bathtub. I asked my wife to attempt to remember to drain the water and fill it back up. Then when I remember to do it, I do it too. So, some days it gets changed twice, other times it doesn't get changed for a couple days, and lastly sometimes it gets changed once per day.
Now that I understand what you mean by flow though, it sounds good really. If you could, I would just recommend sitting a tub out back and putting a "reef safe" water hose from the faucet trickle in there and let it spill into the yard. You would have a constant mub puddle, but your yard would be surprisingly green. That is if the limestone's water doesn't hurt anything.
Now that I understand what you mean by flow though, it sounds good really. If you could, I would just recommend sitting a tub out back and putting a "reef safe" water hose from the faucet trickle in there and let it spill into the yard. You would have a constant mub puddle, but your yard would be surprisingly green. That is if the limestone's water doesn't hurt anything.
Insane Reefer
New member
Lime is a common lawn fertilizer, but like anything, too much of a good thing can really fubar the whole works.
Part of the "cure " that we do, helps the nasties leech out, but keep in mind that cement continues to "cure" (as in hardening) for something like 100 years. Ever tried to break out an old cement pad or walk? The older it gets, the harder - there are still chemical processes happening in the cement...
The quickest cure that I believe was 4 weeks. This guy was using fist sized rocks. I've heard up to 3 months for large base rocks. I heave heard of using a vinegar bath, but from what I have read, it simply masks the ph for a few days, then starts to leech again...
Changing your water more than once a day doesn't accomplish much but raise your water bill; the water can hold a LOT of the leechout before it saturates.
I am going to put a kiddy pool in my drive, and use the powerhead to pump the water out to the street once a day.
Just like most things in this hobby, patience is the ticket - move too fast and enjoy a dead sea...
Hope this helps.
Part of the "cure " that we do, helps the nasties leech out, but keep in mind that cement continues to "cure" (as in hardening) for something like 100 years. Ever tried to break out an old cement pad or walk? The older it gets, the harder - there are still chemical processes happening in the cement...
The quickest cure that I believe was 4 weeks. This guy was using fist sized rocks. I've heard up to 3 months for large base rocks. I heave heard of using a vinegar bath, but from what I have read, it simply masks the ph for a few days, then starts to leech again...
Changing your water more than once a day doesn't accomplish much but raise your water bill; the water can hold a LOT of the leechout before it saturates.
I am going to put a kiddy pool in my drive, and use the powerhead to pump the water out to the street once a day.
Just like most things in this hobby, patience is the ticket - move too fast and enjoy a dead sea...
Hope this helps.
Insane Reefer
New member
Oh, and my test piece. Came out pretty good, but crumbly - quite lite for the size. Now I soaked in it HOT water for several hours, changing out the water when it cooled, and I have broken it up and seems like all of the rock salt has "melted" out. I was thinking that one could boil the rock for quicker results, but you would need either a hot plate/burner or a crappy garage sale stockpot and a gas grill - you probably wouldn't want to breath this stuff as it boils, so take it outside.
Covey
New member
A mixing tip:
When I did my batch I mixed the portland and water together. Got it to the right consitantancy and THEN added the salt. You can monkey around with the cement for quite some time before you have to add the salt and get on with it. Also you won't melt the salt and you will crush less of it in the mixing process.
As far a a constant water change system half of mine are curing in a tub with my RO waste water running thru it and half in a tub with daily water changes. At nearly two weeks there isn't much difference between the two other than I don't have to empty and refill the RO tub.
When I did my batch I mixed the portland and water together. Got it to the right consitantancy and THEN added the salt. You can monkey around with the cement for quite some time before you have to add the salt and get on with it. Also you won't melt the salt and you will crush less of it in the mixing process.
As far a a constant water change system half of mine are curing in a tub with my RO waste water running thru it and half in a tub with daily water changes. At nearly two weeks there isn't much difference between the two other than I don't have to empty and refill the RO tub.
onetrickpony
Premium Member
I am going to try your recipe
For small batches you can always put them in the toilet tank to cure out
Ken
For small batches you can always put them in the toilet tank to cure out
Ken
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
What is the prefered method to allow the rocks to dry after forming?
I have a large 20" SS mixing bowl that I worked the rocksalt from.
Mixed in another container, and worked the mix on a plastic top folding table. I moved the rocks to the bowl to rest while I hosed off the table. I noticed that there is more than enough room to layer the new rocks in rocksalt while they set up (24Hrs or so)
Is this OK or should they be completely exposed to air, like on a rack of sorts like egggrate?
Here are 2 branch-like attempts, still sitting in salt. There are 3 others below salt, more rock like, not branched.
I have a large 20" SS mixing bowl that I worked the rocksalt from.
Mixed in another container, and worked the mix on a plastic top folding table. I moved the rocks to the bowl to rest while I hosed off the table. I noticed that there is more than enough room to layer the new rocks in rocksalt while they set up (24Hrs or so)
Is this OK or should they be completely exposed to air, like on a rack of sorts like egggrate?
Here are 2 branch-like attempts, still sitting in salt. There are 3 others below salt, more rock like, not branched.
Last edited:
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
Unless I hear back that initial set/dry as I have it now is bad, I'll stay hands off and photo the other rocks tomorrow eve. If I need to move them this evening, I will.
Please advise.
Thanks!
I hate to admit how easy this seems for my first attempt, hope I didn't screw up
Please advise.
Thanks!
I hate to admit how easy this seems for my first attempt, hope I didn't screw up
Insane Reefer
New member
Leave them alone for 24 hours if you can - the less they are handled, the less will crumble off before it has a chance to completely harden.
there's air in between that rock salt anyway. you could cover the container and put it in the sun to raise the humidity. that's the way to cure concrete the hardest...high humidity and covered to prevent the water from evaporating out too fast.
for water changes, have you guys considered getting a toilet flush valve and putting it into the bottom of a rubbermaid tub? set the water level and hook it up to a hose that is always on. just go out and pull the flapper before or after work every day and it will drain and refill on it's own with only 2 seconds of work from you.
for water changes, have you guys considered getting a toilet flush valve and putting it into the bottom of a rubbermaid tub? set the water level and hook it up to a hose that is always on. just go out and pull the flapper before or after work every day and it will drain and refill on it's own with only 2 seconds of work from you.
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