James Yeung
New member
Thanks for the info guys... I'll post some pictures tonight and may only impact Canadian folks to stay away from the brand I purchased. Back to the drawing board! They're way too big!
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter Travis L. Stevens
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Travis L. Stevens
New member
Re: Ratios
Re: Ratios
:lmao: I love to hear all about this stuff. I sit back with a grin on my face. I went through all of this stuff before. Been there; done that. It is fun to hear people's reactions and seeing that they have the same thing as mine. Now, BSB, I want you to try a tiny little batch (one small rock worth) of Crushed Oyster Shell. One with rock salt, and one without. Once it's dry, let it soak in water for a few days, and then handle it. Then, handle your Salt/Cement rock. You will see how much smoother the Salt/Cement is. The large curshed oyster shell rocks almost hurt to pick up with one hand in a basketball style grip. And, I've even cut myself with the rock while aquascaping. My skin was tender from being in the water for so long.
I did more than the three batches mentioned at the first of the post, but those three batches were the significant ones. In all seriousness out of everything I tried, a straight 4:1-3:1 ration of Salt to cement yields the best results and curing it with regular water is just the safest. A little patience goes a long way. Adding chemicals to the Kuring bin only seems to mask what's going on.
Re: Ratios
:lmao: I love to hear all about this stuff. I sit back with a grin on my face. I went through all of this stuff before. Been there; done that. It is fun to hear people's reactions and seeing that they have the same thing as mine. Now, BSB, I want you to try a tiny little batch (one small rock worth) of Crushed Oyster Shell. One with rock salt, and one without. Once it's dry, let it soak in water for a few days, and then handle it. Then, handle your Salt/Cement rock. You will see how much smoother the Salt/Cement is. The large curshed oyster shell rocks almost hurt to pick up with one hand in a basketball style grip. And, I've even cut myself with the rock while aquascaping. My skin was tender from being in the water for so long.
I did more than the three batches mentioned at the first of the post, but those three batches were the significant ones. In all seriousness out of everything I tried, a straight 4:1-3:1 ration of Salt to cement yields the best results and curing it with regular water is just the safest. A little patience goes a long way. Adding chemicals to the Kuring bin only seems to mask what's going on.
Reefbound1
New member
Well I just tossed my first batch after seeing BigSkyBarts third batch... Anyway I just finish it and stowed it under my deck till tomorrow ( major T storms rollin thru dont want the lids blowing off and filling with water before there cured )... Anyway in a 5 gallon bucket I did 10 12oz cups salt to 4 12oz of portland, it seemed much better than my first mix and I got a little more creative instead of just plopping blobs in the container...If these come out better I'll post pics of my first and second batches...
davenelsen
New member
I also used the same rock salt (light blue bag), from Lowes. I like the large crystal size. I also experimented with installing a duct work inside a large rock that i made today.
I will have to block off most of the ports and reduce the flow areas but i think it will give me some versitility.
How long should i wait before putting the rocks in the creek, 1 day???
I will try to post some pictures in a little while.
I will have to block off most of the ports and reduce the flow areas but i think it will give me some versitility.
How long should i wait before putting the rocks in the creek, 1 day???
I will try to post some pictures in a little while.
James Yeung
New member
Alright, here are some pics.
I messed up. The bag doesn't specifically say crystalline. Safe to say, avoid this product for DIY LR. Beside the bag, you can see one of 5 rocks from my first batch. Nothing much to show. Not very good looking but a hard rock none the less. The buldges are clearly visible and is the result of the large salt pellets. I think by 3rd or 4th batch, I'll become an expert.
I messed up. The bag doesn't specifically say crystalline. Safe to say, avoid this product for DIY LR. Beside the bag, you can see one of 5 rocks from my first batch. Nothing much to show. Not very good looking but a hard rock none the less. The buldges are clearly visible and is the result of the large salt pellets. I think by 3rd or 4th batch, I'll become an expert.
Abalone joe
New member
The only thing you have to wait for before soaking the rock is that the cement has set firmly enough to move or handle. Two day's should be considered the minimum. Then comes the long torture of waiting for the rocks to become aquarium safe.
Insane Reefer
New member
Funny - I've posted this question at least twice in this thread, and no replies at all, lol
We have several chemicals available to us that lowers or buffers pH and is reef safe. I only wonder if they might not allow the cement to harden properly...
Insane Reefer
New member
James,
Since it looks safe, I'd use pieces of this large stuff to make a few hollows in the rock as you form it - sort of like the idea of using bio packing peanuts, only no shellac...
Lay some down, add a piece or two, then add more cement, repeat.
Since it looks safe, I'd use pieces of this large stuff to make a few hollows in the rock as you form it - sort of like the idea of using bio packing peanuts, only no shellac...
Lay some down, add a piece or two, then add more cement, repeat.
James Yeung
New member
Insane Reefer, thanks for the tip.
Just to clarify for everyone. When I said avoid this product, I mean that the pellets are too big. It's says 99.8% evaporated salt on the package so it's good enough, IMO.
Just to clarify for everyone. When I said avoid this product, I mean that the pellets are too big. It's says 99.8% evaporated salt on the package so it's good enough, IMO.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
Re: Re: Ratios
Re: Re: Ratios
Travis,
Glad to be able to provide part of your daily dose of chuckles :lol:
I (and many others I'm sure) have to experiment and get the "feel" of what we're trying to achieve. Guidlines, advice and even an exact mix recomendation still does not account for the "chefs" touch. "What if I add this or change that just a little?" I know that I sure am guilty of that.
I offer compliments to anyone that got the texture/porosity they wanted on their first attempt .
I'll try & put my hands on some crushed oyster shell and give that a try. I'll need to find someone with an open sack of it, I don't want to buy 50# for a 1 rock test.
Re: Re: Ratios
Travis,
Glad to be able to provide part of your daily dose of chuckles :lol:
I (and many others I'm sure) have to experiment and get the "feel" of what we're trying to achieve. Guidlines, advice and even an exact mix recomendation still does not account for the "chefs" touch. "What if I add this or change that just a little?" I know that I sure am guilty of that.
I offer compliments to anyone that got the texture/porosity they wanted on their first attempt .
I'll try & put my hands on some crushed oyster shell and give that a try. I'll need to find someone with an open sack of it, I don't want to buy 50# for a 1 rock test.
James Yeung
New member
hmmm.. just an update on my progress. I tossed a piece of rock into the toilet reservoir after 30+ hours of curing. Well, 1 hr later, I went back to the toilet for #1. Load and behold, the whole dang thing disintergrated! I flushed the toilet about 5x to get rid of my hard work. haha
I lost count how many times I mixed cement (besides soaking it in water 24 hrs later) so I'm no newbie when it comes to normal use of cement. Maybe it needed more time to dry or that crushing the salt produced too much salt power when already mixed (dissolved way too much salt into the mixture- 3:1 salt/cement ratio) with a 2x4 was the culprit!?!? Anyway, back to the drawing board again. Drats, I should have taken a picture of the toilet and posted it. hehe
I lost count how many times I mixed cement (besides soaking it in water 24 hrs later) so I'm no newbie when it comes to normal use of cement. Maybe it needed more time to dry or that crushing the salt produced too much salt power when already mixed (dissolved way too much salt into the mixture- 3:1 salt/cement ratio) with a 2x4 was the culprit!?!? Anyway, back to the drawing board again. Drats, I should have taken a picture of the toilet and posted it. hehe
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Rhodophyta
New member
The formula for reef balls is proprietary and you have to buy a license to find out the ingredients and steps. I did find a formula for mini reef balls that can be used in small locations or in the aquarium after one week curing. http://www.reefball.org/miniman.htm
noodles9987
New member
DIY Rocks with Dirt and Concrete Pigments.
Hey all. I've read a lot of these posts on DIY rocks. I eventually started making these and I have experimented a great deal. I have finally come up with my own formula and I thought I would share it. My wife and a few freinds agree that these look extremely real. Here is my formula.
4 cups portland type 1 (Menards)
6 cups rock salt (Menards)
1 table spoon to 1.5 table spoons of concrete pigment (home depot)
1 to 1.5 cup crushed coral/sand (Petco)
I have a couple of things to add here, and I think that the following may help a few of you, even though this post is becoming pretty long and a lot of this stuff is repeats.
How I did it: Add portland to a bucket. Add water. Mix this by hand until fully mixed. It should have the consistency of clay, pretty thick. Add concrete pigment. Mix completely. I have made red rocks and tan rocks. You can add as much or as little pigmentation to the concrete. A small amount of this may leach out during the cure process. However, this will stabilize. So the coloring is up to you. Once this is mixed, then add the rock salt. After mixing this in, the consistency of the cement becomes thinner. I like to go back at this point and add a bit more cement to thicken things up. Next, add crushed substrate to the mix. I have tried like 3 or 4 different types. I think the one that looks the best is with a large diameter florida crushed coral.
The pigment at Menards and Home Depot is made by the same company. There is only 1 kind, and I think it's by quickcrete, although I am not 100% positive. Sorry, I am not looking at the bottle now. However, the material from Menards isn't as concentrated as the stuff at Home Depot. The bottle that I saw at menards seemed to be about ½ as strong in coloring as the stuff from Home Depot. Also, the stuff at meanrds has 1% of bateriacide in it. The stuff at HD didn't list this as an ingredient.
I have tried making free hand molds. I've poured the stuff in tin foil, poured it out on salt and sand. You name it. I've tried it. What I was looking for is something that would be totally gone at the end. I didn't want all that sand stuck to my rocks. I ended up going to wal mart and buying a bag of top soil for less than a dollar. I also bought a rubber maid bin for 1.49. Note: leave the sticks in the dirt mix. It's great for sticking into the rocks to create small holes. After curing, you can pull them out.
Now I like to use the dirt because you can cram it into the concrete and use it to make crevasses, openings, indentations, etc., and at the end, it washed away. Also, the side of the rock that usually looks the most authentic is the side that was face down into the dirt. I find that this ends up being the display side.
As for curing the rock, I will usually let the rocks sit for 6 - 24 hours maximum. I don't think waiting longer gives you any benefit. I think also that the moister concrete would leach out the salt faster (just a guess).
Last point: when I pull the rocks out of the dirt, I will typically start chipping on the rock with a hammer or the handle end of a screw driver. It doesn't take much tapping to get the rock looking like you want it.
Hey all. I've read a lot of these posts on DIY rocks. I eventually started making these and I have experimented a great deal. I have finally come up with my own formula and I thought I would share it. My wife and a few freinds agree that these look extremely real. Here is my formula.
4 cups portland type 1 (Menards)
6 cups rock salt (Menards)
1 table spoon to 1.5 table spoons of concrete pigment (home depot)
1 to 1.5 cup crushed coral/sand (Petco)
I have a couple of things to add here, and I think that the following may help a few of you, even though this post is becoming pretty long and a lot of this stuff is repeats.
How I did it: Add portland to a bucket. Add water. Mix this by hand until fully mixed. It should have the consistency of clay, pretty thick. Add concrete pigment. Mix completely. I have made red rocks and tan rocks. You can add as much or as little pigmentation to the concrete. A small amount of this may leach out during the cure process. However, this will stabilize. So the coloring is up to you. Once this is mixed, then add the rock salt. After mixing this in, the consistency of the cement becomes thinner. I like to go back at this point and add a bit more cement to thicken things up. Next, add crushed substrate to the mix. I have tried like 3 or 4 different types. I think the one that looks the best is with a large diameter florida crushed coral.
The pigment at Menards and Home Depot is made by the same company. There is only 1 kind, and I think it's by quickcrete, although I am not 100% positive. Sorry, I am not looking at the bottle now. However, the material from Menards isn't as concentrated as the stuff at Home Depot. The bottle that I saw at menards seemed to be about ½ as strong in coloring as the stuff from Home Depot. Also, the stuff at meanrds has 1% of bateriacide in it. The stuff at HD didn't list this as an ingredient.
I have tried making free hand molds. I've poured the stuff in tin foil, poured it out on salt and sand. You name it. I've tried it. What I was looking for is something that would be totally gone at the end. I didn't want all that sand stuck to my rocks. I ended up going to wal mart and buying a bag of top soil for less than a dollar. I also bought a rubber maid bin for 1.49. Note: leave the sticks in the dirt mix. It's great for sticking into the rocks to create small holes. After curing, you can pull them out.
Now I like to use the dirt because you can cram it into the concrete and use it to make crevasses, openings, indentations, etc., and at the end, it washed away. Also, the side of the rock that usually looks the most authentic is the side that was face down into the dirt. I find that this ends up being the display side.
As for curing the rock, I will usually let the rocks sit for 6 - 24 hours maximum. I don't think waiting longer gives you any benefit. I think also that the moister concrete would leach out the salt faster (just a guess).
Last point: when I pull the rocks out of the dirt, I will typically start chipping on the rock with a hammer or the handle end of a screw driver. It doesn't take much tapping to get the rock looking like you want it.
Insane Reefer
New member
James, I tried one batch of "salt only" mix, and while I think it would make awesome filler in bigger hollow (formed) rocks, I personally don't like it - it crumbles WAY too much for my comfort or taste. I have found that a mix of 1.5cement/.5sand/1.5Crushed coral or shell/2salt
makes a completely satisfactory mix for most purposes, again, in my opinion. I like using crushed coral and argo sand since that helps the rock mimic the true live rock a bit better and makes a much tougher rock with minimal crumbles - and my rocks are still quite lighter than their LR forefathers.
I've used oyster shell, but IMO, it makes a granola looking rock (as well as cutting the crap out of you, lol), and since the process includes hardcore cleaning and a lot of folks are starting to think CO causes algae blooms, I'm just staying clear.
Rhody, maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I don't understand how one would be able to use it in a week. Is it all the holes, lol? I don't see anything that could explain it...
makes a completely satisfactory mix for most purposes, again, in my opinion. I like using crushed coral and argo sand since that helps the rock mimic the true live rock a bit better and makes a much tougher rock with minimal crumbles - and my rocks are still quite lighter than their LR forefathers.
I've used oyster shell, but IMO, it makes a granola looking rock (as well as cutting the crap out of you, lol), and since the process includes hardcore cleaning and a lot of folks are starting to think CO causes algae blooms, I'm just staying clear.
Rhody, maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I don't understand how one would be able to use it in a week. Is it all the holes, lol? I don't see anything that could explain it...
Insane Reefer
New member
Nice post Noodle
This is a great sounding technique for grey cement, but honestly, I think the sand and CC stuck to the outside of the White cement actually makes the stuff look a Lot like the Real McCoy. It isn't so nice on grey, I admit, but I like the way I can mould natural shapes with it. I will have to try the dirt method for at least one test batch - maybe the rocks I do the boil/no boil test on...
I wonder if red clay would work? A hour or two south of here, there is lots of red clay...
My husband asked it one could make black rocks with powdered charcoal. I didn't know what to say, lol...
This is a great sounding technique for grey cement, but honestly, I think the sand and CC stuck to the outside of the White cement actually makes the stuff look a Lot like the Real McCoy. It isn't so nice on grey, I admit, but I like the way I can mould natural shapes with it. I will have to try the dirt method for at least one test batch - maybe the rocks I do the boil/no boil test on...
I wonder if red clay would work? A hour or two south of here, there is lots of red clay...
My husband asked it one could make black rocks with powdered charcoal. I didn't know what to say, lol...
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Insane Reefer
New member
BSB - that batch 3 hit it on the nailhead, eh? Nice work
Insane Reefer
New member
Several companies make dye for mosaic art, most don't have mold/bact additives. Wonder if these would work? I have some here by "Plaid", not that I'm really interested in this for myself, but the idea is interesting, and I may at some point get an order for colored rock, and it would be nice to know ahead of time what can be used...
noodles9987
New member
hey all. The pigments are various grades of titanium dioxide. I know a little bit about this stuff. I work in an industrial paint manufacturing company.
To be breif, you can use anything as a pigment. Even charcoal would work as a pigment. It wont disolve either. The problem with this is going to be the particle size of the charcoal. Black pigments are nothing more than carbon powders that must be ground into a liquid (a carrier). And, the pigment is really fine, kind of like talcum powder.
So the stuff at home depot, menards, lowes (we don't have a lowes here yet - but they are building one now) are all going to be about the same. Simple grades of TIO2 (Titatinium dioxide).
We'll, thanks for reading this. Good luck.
To be breif, you can use anything as a pigment. Even charcoal would work as a pigment. It wont disolve either. The problem with this is going to be the particle size of the charcoal. Black pigments are nothing more than carbon powders that must be ground into a liquid (a carrier). And, the pigment is really fine, kind of like talcum powder.
So the stuff at home depot, menards, lowes (we don't have a lowes here yet - but they are building one now) are all going to be about the same. Simple grades of TIO2 (Titatinium dioxide).
We'll, thanks for reading this. Good luck.
noodles9987
New member
Hey insane reefer. I think clay may be a good choice for pigmentation. It would give you very good coloring and its not going to leach anything into the concreete (unless it comes from a contaminated land fill or something). Also, dyes are not good. They are transparent. When they are disolved in solvents or water, they become completely transparent and you would not be able to add enough of them to get any coverage (opacity). If you don't believe me, go to your local food store and buy some food coloring. You can add a whole box and not see any noticeable color change to the mix - I tried this on day 1.
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