Fishboy1230
New member
I made a freshwater rocks (two) and i only kure them for one week then I add them one by one once a week to maintain a higher ph that I currently have in my Chiclid tank.
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
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Rhodophyta
New member
The acid in the leaves neutralizes the alkalinity and stain parts of the rock various shades from gray to brown, giving it a natural look.
sorry to jump in
sorry to jump in
I have read a little more than half of the entire thread, mostly the first half. I also read on wet web media that the rocks will provide little buffering capability. So my question is what recipe was decided on for being the best for porosity, buffering and low weight? Also has anyone had a way to have 90% man made and have the qualities that "real" rock possess? Thank you.
sorry to jump in
I have read a little more than half of the entire thread, mostly the first half. I also read on wet web media that the rocks will provide little buffering capability. So my question is what recipe was decided on for being the best for porosity, buffering and low weight? Also has anyone had a way to have 90% man made and have the qualities that "real" rock possess? Thank you.
Fishboy1230
New member
Double post....
:mad2:
:mad2:
Fishboy1230
New member
I just add salt to cement in a 2:1 or 3:1 mixture. I use Portland type I/II available at local Homedepot or Lowe's. Use your hands, molds, rocks, chunks of salt, pvc, bubble wrap, and pretty much add more detail to the rock. While the salt provides the porosity. Hope this helps.
Insane Reefer
New member
Alas, I didn't cover this in my synopsis
, but will endeavor to do so for the next posting of it. I too thought this might be the case, but was disabused of this notion after a comment in this thread, which led to my own research on google.Man-made or real makes no difference. For calcium to be rendered available requires a low pH - lower than what we can keep our systems at. This is why calcium reactors are beneficial; they use Co2 to lower the pH of the solution (the saltwater), and thus causes the "leeching" of calcium into the water column.
As to pH, I can't speak.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
Re: sorry to jump in
Re: sorry to jump in
I have no earthly idea, but I can tell you that about 90% or more is gone by the time the Kuring is finished and it's ready to go in the tank. Any extra salt that might come out in the tank will not harm the tank at all.
I can see you're poking a little fun, Mr. Trout
Actually because the rock has such a large portion of salt within it, most of the salt touches itself. So, when the cement hardens around it, it creates many intricate twists and turns. Albeit on a TINY level, but water can start from the outside and work it's way to the core. There will still be a few pieces of salt that will be completely encased in cement, but like above, if it managed to come out after the Kuring process is complete, it won't harm the tank.
The buffering is a moot point. That goes with aragonite sand as well. It won't buffer anything until the pH has dropped to 7.8 or below. Most reef tanks stay above this level. On top of that, most of the buffering CaOH is leached out in the Kuring process. So, man-made rock has little buffering ability. But neither does real live rock in a stable, correct marine tank.
The goal of your rock, whether it is man-made or live, is not buffering; it's biological filtration. And in order to harbor the most bacteria possible for biological filtration, it has to be very porous. This to provide ample surface area for bacteria to colonize.
I can attest that I have a tank with about 80-85% (if not more) man-made rock of this type with fish in there that really shouldn't be. Right now my 29g is just a holding tank. It has seven fish and is fed quite heavily. I have a Yellow Tang, 2 Clownfish, 2 Yellow Watchman Gobies, 1 Molly Miller Blenny, and 1 Green Chromis. I have undetectable nitrates, but I do have growing algae in the sump, so it is being fed with what waste is immediately produced by the livestock. I'll soon be using a 90-95% ratio on a 75g I'll be setting up.
In short, the Ultimate DIY Rock works the same as real live rock, if not better, in a standard, stable marine tank.
Re: sorry to jump in
I have no earthly idea, but I can tell you that about 90% or more is gone by the time the Kuring is finished and it's ready to go in the tank. Any extra salt that might come out in the tank will not harm the tank at all.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9350701#post9350701 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by speckled trout
So, water will soak through solid layers of cement? Didn't they use to produce ships from cement?
Are you sure the salt actually diffuses from within the cement? That would mean the molecules of salt are smaller than whatever "microscopic pores" might be present in cement, wouldn't it?
I can see you're poking a little fun, Mr. Trout
Actually because the rock has such a large portion of salt within it, most of the salt touches itself. So, when the cement hardens around it, it creates many intricate twists and turns. Albeit on a TINY level, but water can start from the outside and work it's way to the core. There will still be a few pieces of salt that will be completely encased in cement, but like above, if it managed to come out after the Kuring process is complete, it won't harm the tank.The buffering is a moot point. That goes with aragonite sand as well. It won't buffer anything until the pH has dropped to 7.8 or below. Most reef tanks stay above this level. On top of that, most of the buffering CaOH is leached out in the Kuring process. So, man-made rock has little buffering ability. But neither does real live rock in a stable, correct marine tank.
The goal of your rock, whether it is man-made or live, is not buffering; it's biological filtration. And in order to harbor the most bacteria possible for biological filtration, it has to be very porous. This to provide ample surface area for bacteria to colonize.
I can attest that I have a tank with about 80-85% (if not more) man-made rock of this type with fish in there that really shouldn't be. Right now my 29g is just a holding tank. It has seven fish and is fed quite heavily. I have a Yellow Tang, 2 Clownfish, 2 Yellow Watchman Gobies, 1 Molly Miller Blenny, and 1 Green Chromis. I have undetectable nitrates, but I do have growing algae in the sump, so it is being fed with what waste is immediately produced by the livestock. I'll soon be using a 90-95% ratio on a 75g I'll be setting up.
In short, the Ultimate DIY Rock works the same as real live rock, if not better, in a standard, stable marine tank.
Re: Re: sorry to jump in
Re: Re: sorry to jump in
Thank you very much. I am still curious to why the guy on WWM is so against it and says it should be only a small portion of the tank total volume. Thank you for a very informative answer. BTW, I am in complete understanding of the workings of a CA reactor
Just brought up the calcium because it was one of the points the guy was making on WWM.
Thanks again.
Re: Re: sorry to jump in
Thank you very much. I am still curious to why the guy on WWM is so against it and says it should be only a small portion of the tank total volume. Thank you for a very informative answer. BTW, I am in complete understanding of the workings of a CA reactor
Just brought up the calcium because it was one of the points the guy was making on WWM. Thanks again.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
The reason is because the WWM version of rocks is the old oyster shell/sand/cement mix that lends very little porosity to the rocks even when done correctly.
Fishboy1230
New member
Nice formations! What type of cement did you use?
What did you add to the rocks?(salt, oystershell, etc.)
How did you get the cement to bond to the pvc "skeliton"?
What did you add to the rocks?(salt, oystershell, etc.)
How did you get the cement to bond to the pvc "skeliton"?
Ball
New member
Thanks.
I used Portland Type I cement.
I just added the soloar salt to the cement. I liked using about a 1:1 ratio for the mix. I found that worked out the best. Personal prefernce. The rock is very solid and stong as well as pourus.
To get it to "bond", I made 1"+ holes all over the pvc (mostly in the top). I then filled the pvc with a very wet mixture and let it ooze out of the holes. I was careful to make sure the entire volume of pvc was filled with concrete with no big voids (if I could help it). After it setup for an hour or so, I then coated the pvc with a slightly thicker mixture. This tied the outside concrete coating the pvc into the concrete inside the pvc. This eliminates the need for the concrete to "bond" to the pvc. The pvc simply acts like rebar. Its for shape and strength only.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
3-4 pages back, is Ball's pictures before, during & after concrete
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9287083#post9287083
EDIT* I was pasting the link, while Ball was answering the question...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9287083#post9287083
EDIT* I was pasting the link, while Ball was answering the question...
speckled trout
New member
Wow, I didn't know that my rocks weren't porouos enough?
Someone should tell my corals, sponges, shrimp, anenomes and fish!
Technique comes into play when making the rock, not just the recipe. My DIY rock comprise about 85% of the rocks in my 105g. They do a very good job of biological filtration using the "old recipe", as it was so eliquently put. They also look very natural, IMO.
Mine, contrary to some opinions, are very porous and provide a very stable environment for my corals and fish. I have never had a water quality problem, either. And, my tank has a very high bioload.
Anyways, my rant is over, sorry to anyone offended, I just couldn't quite believe what I was reading and had to get it off my chest.
customcolor
New member
here is a pic of one of my rocks from my first batch from a salt mold next to a real live rock i fliped over for better placement. the protland rock looks more porouos. i cured the rock for 3 weeks and it was stable enough to put in my tank. i am slowly adding more.
customcolor
New member
i would think those would work just fine. i use quickcrete's portland cement
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