Aqua Keepers
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I just got back from HD with a 96lb bag of Quickcrete portland type1 and two 40lb or 50lb bags of salt. I'm hopeing to get started this weekend. I'll post in my own thread and post a link here.
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
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Aqua Keepers
New member
I was gonna go with the stucco mix at first. So, I asked Randy in the Chemistry forum what he thought about Sakrete stucco/mortar mix and gray surface bonding cement being reef safe and his quote is below. I just could'nt find the stuff around here.
quote:
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Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Once cured and very extensively rinsed so that it no longer raises the pH substantially, it is likely as acceptable as most artificial rock mixtures made from cement, and likely will not cause problems.
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quote:
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Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Once cured and very extensively rinsed so that it no longer raises the pH substantially, it is likely as acceptable as most artificial rock mixtures made from cement, and likely will not cause problems.
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Aqua Keepers
New member
Anyone ever use dirt or top soil to mold their rocks?
Rhodophyta
New member
You don't want to clean or neutralize the rocks with muriatic acid until they have finished setting, hydrating, curing, whatever you want to call the process of permanently incorporating water into the molecular structure of the rock. If you do it too soon, it would be like sanding between paint coats and you sanded too soon while the paint was still wet. The pH is going to be sky high if you are impatient.
lildraken
New member
I noticed when you add vinegar to the curing water, it slightly changes the color of the rock, I guess because it's eating up the calcareous deposits on the surface of the rock.
I don't know much about chemistry, but how does making the the water more acidic speed up the rate of hydration in cement? To me it's like turning up the air conditioner to put out the fireplace. no matter how cold you make the room, the wood still will not burn any faster. maybe my logic if flawed.
normal hydration is CaSi + H2O --> CaOH + CaSi H2O
throw acetic acid into the mix and it will react with CaOH to form calcium acetate. adding yeast to for CO2 will react with CaOH to form Calcium Carbonate... but how will that expedite CaSi reacting with Water? We're only treating the biproducts of the reaction and not the reaction itself.
according to www.cement.org/basics
"The rate of hardening depends upon the composition and fineness of the cement, the mix proportions, and the moisture and temperature conditions. Most of the hydration and strength gain take place within the first month of concrete's life cycle, but hydration continues at a slower rate for many years. Concrete continues to get stronger as it gets older."
I don't know much about chemistry, but how does making the the water more acidic speed up the rate of hydration in cement? To me it's like turning up the air conditioner to put out the fireplace. no matter how cold you make the room, the wood still will not burn any faster. maybe my logic if flawed.
normal hydration is CaSi + H2O --> CaOH + CaSi H2O
throw acetic acid into the mix and it will react with CaOH to form calcium acetate. adding yeast to for CO2 will react with CaOH to form Calcium Carbonate... but how will that expedite CaSi reacting with Water? We're only treating the biproducts of the reaction and not the reaction itself.
according to www.cement.org/basics
"The rate of hardening depends upon the composition and fineness of the cement, the mix proportions, and the moisture and temperature conditions. Most of the hydration and strength gain take place within the first month of concrete's life cycle, but hydration continues at a slower rate for many years. Concrete continues to get stronger as it gets older."
Aqua Keepers
New member
C'mon guys. I don't have a job til Monday and would love to get started on this.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
I wouldn't even think of it! You never know what heavy metals, pesticides, etc are in it. Your best bet is to mold in sand or salt.
RandyStacyE
New member
lildraken,
I was thinking along the similar lines. I have no idea if acid will help the rock cure faster or not. It’s possible that the rock will just have to do its thing but ya never know unless ya try it I guess. Then again you did try it when you used vinegar … in a way. How long were you treating the water?
The deal with adding vinegar to bring down the ph is identical to adding acid, only if I’m not mistaken; I believe a gallon of Muriatic acid is cheaper by volume and much stronger. Acid can be diluted because it has a bit lower ph.
Here is a chart to compare the ph of different substances:
I was thinking along the similar lines. I have no idea if acid will help the rock cure faster or not. It’s possible that the rock will just have to do its thing but ya never know unless ya try it I guess. Then again you did try it when you used vinegar … in a way. How long were you treating the water?
The deal with adding vinegar to bring down the ph is identical to adding acid, only if I’m not mistaken; I believe a gallon of Muriatic acid is cheaper by volume and much stronger. Acid can be diluted because it has a bit lower ph.
Here is a chart to compare the ph of different substances:
Aqua Keepers
New member
Thanks Travis. I did'nt think of that. One more question before I get started. Do you think I could use paper or paper towels to create tunnels and what not? I'd remove them before placeing rock in water, but if anything does get stuck in there, it'll desolve in the water wont it?
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
If you're using the Salt:Cement ratio, then pile a handful of salt in it to make a tunnel and then build the cement around it. This is especially useful if your forming a mold in salt. And at the end of it all, it completely dissolves out and you won't have to worry about unwanted materials.
Aqua Keepers
New member
Ok, I'm off to play in Salt & Cement.
Aqua Keepers
New member
Yeah, I seen the bubble wrap and plan on useing it when I get the hang of this. I just got done makeing my first batch. It was a liitle more difficult than I thought it would be. First of all, I used the Mortons White Crystal Salt. It varied in size but I still feel it was on the larger size. I know some of you used this kind. What did you think of it?
Also, I think I made to much at once because I had a he!! of a time mixing it. I mixed 16 8oz cups of salt and 8 8oz cups of cement together. Then the water. It was a pain to mix. I mad it all in this cardboard home made workshop
And here's my aftermess
Now, I need to cover that with plastic and let sit for a week, right?
Also, I think I made to much at once because I had a he!! of a time mixing it. I mixed 16 8oz cups of salt and 8 8oz cups of cement together. Then the water. It was a pain to mix. I mad it all in this cardboard home made workshop
And here's my aftermess
Now, I need to cover that with plastic and let sit for a week, right?
lildraken
New member
pito great job! the more humid the enironment of your hardening cement, the better. you can mist it with water frequently. What I did was after the cement hardened for a day, I put it in a cooler with few cups of water at the bottom. I covered the top with saran wrap and let it sit out in the sun. With the green house effect, it kept the cement moist and the heat helped to hydrate the cement in my opinion. (I live in florida so it's not freeeeezing outside!)
Aqua Keepers
New member
Well, here in Ohio, there's no such thing as the sun. We depend on these weird things called heaters to warm our homes. However they tend to dry the air up. So, I'm gonna place a trash bag over it and mist a couple times a day.
Rhodophyta
New member
Unless you live in the Rocky Mountains near a uranium mine or in California's Imperial Valley -- Dirt is dirt. Dig down to subsoil because it's going to be low in organics and usually high in clays and silts that rinse out easily but hold shape well until then. And of course no farmer or landscaper wasted his time fertilizing sub soil. You can roll dirt "worms" and bury them with the ends sticking out to create tunnels and lighten the rock.
Rhodophyta
New member
If so it's inside a skinny tunnel, so how would anyone see it? If you put some on the surface to create holes or texture there is some color transferred to the stone, at least for a while, but it just makes it look more like a real rock and less like a piece of sidewalk.
Aqua Keepers
New member
My idea behind the dirt was maybe some color, but mostly because I figure it'll just wash out of the rock. Plus, how much cheaper can you get?
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