The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9010753#post9010753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pito
What are you all doing with the wast water? Can it be used to wash clothes or something?

I know of a guy in CA who has rigged an irrigation system on the waste line to water his flower beds. I personally wouldn't use it for anything I planned to eat because of the heavy metals and salts, but thats only based on a gut feeling. Not sure I'd wash clothes with it either for the same reasons.

 

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9012159#post9012159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
PS - a curious streak in my prompted a quick google search. And while I can't say "Cement contains phosphates", I can say that the number of states in the US that number cement in their states trade goods/resources, also list limestone and phoshates as trade goods. I live in an area where cement and limestone are manufactured and mined - the two are always on the same acreage - if this is the case with phosphate mining, you'd almost have to assume that there are going to be some phosphates in the cement manufactured at these locales.

:reading: I googled, "cement chemical composition" and found:

from Encyclopædia Britannica
Portland cement is made up of four main compounds: tricalcium silicate (3CaO Ã"” SiO2), dicalcium silicate (2CaO Ã"” SiO2), tricalcium aluminate (3CaO Ã"” Al2O3), and a tetra-calcium aluminoferrite (4CaO Ã"” Al2O3Fe2O3).

I'm not seeing phosphorus at least as an intended chemical in the process, so if there are phospates they more than likely are mixed in unintentionally...I guess

PS, I googled some more: Lime is defined chemically as CaO.

That said, I agree with Insane Reefer that because the two compounds are mined in the same areas that there could be some probability that phosphates do occur in the cement mixtures. Now, perhaps there is some other way of separating them out, that perhaps phosphates present would cause the curing process to become less efficient...I just don't know. I haven't found anything on the web as of yet that would answer that question.

 

[Chasmodes]

OK, a bit more googling and I'm on to something here:

http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2007orleans/techprogram/abstract_89491.htm

A study about the effect of phosphates and chlorides on the curing time of cement:

Conclusion: Chloride and phosphate ions retard the setting of Portland Cement. The observation is in accord with the known binding effects of chloride and phosphate ions with different structural phases in PC that stifle its normal hydration reaction. This effect may be reflected in the slow setting characteristics of PC-based endodontic materials observed clinically.

So, can we deduce that the folks who package Portland Cement for our use would serve their customers better by making sure that their products are phosphate free? Could be at least one less thing to worry about.

So maybe the issue with algae growth is more a factor of another Portland Cement component?

 

[Fishboy1230]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9011155#post9011155 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hesstondc
Icefire, that is what I used...I have a whole stiniking bag of it that I can't use now....It has little pieces of fiberglass in it. Each one is about an inch long and it make the rock look hairy....Plus there is no way that stuff will ever stay in the rock so you will find it floating around the tank I bet....Like dog hair....

I use that stuff

It looks good to me... it still needs to cure for the same amount of time as other cements but the fiberglass isnt hurting anything and it isnt floating away it adds a little more texture. There isnt enough fiberglass to make it hairy!
:bum:

 

[Icefire]

Fishboy1230 I'm pretty sure you don't have to cure it since you can use it in potable water tank to seal wet crack.

How much salt you use with Quickwall?

 

[speckled trout]

I'll try to take some pics of my tank that has had agrocrete rock in it for over 2 years. I can't get any type of algae to grow on it except coralline.

Now, I don't use rock salt or try to "fast" cure my rock using any type of chemicals, either. I made mine with good old Type II Portland cement, oystershell, and water. I cured them in a river behind my house for 3 months.

If you've got hair algae problems or phosphate problems then there probably due to other issues. A nutrient export problem would be my guess, not the rock, unless it isn't fully cured.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9013266#post9013266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hypsoblennius
This effect may be reflected in the slow setting characteristics of PC-based endodontic materials observed clinically.

Hypsoblennius, endodonic cement is dental cement - much different from Portland cement. Dental cements are usually a calcium based cement, nothing like Portland.

Plus that info to me says not that the cement is leeching anything, but that those two elements do the leeching....

 

[Insane Reefer]

I really, really think that fiberglass is a bad way to go. Have you ever seen the pictures they showed of peoples lungs that smoked old skool menthol cig's? Or asbestos damaged lungs?
This damage was from particles smaller than the eye can see. You think it will be safe in the corrosive environment of your tank, and safe for your inhabitants?

And who said "I don't think it needs to cure"? If you believe this, and want to bet your tank on it, go ahead and just throw it in.

For the most part, tap water in the US is drinkable; it is considered safe for human consumpsion. But who here uses tap water for their reef? Why? Because what might be safe for us is a disaster just waiting to happen in our reefs.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9014725#post9014725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by speckled trout
I'll try to take some pics of my tank that has had agrocrete rock in it for over 2 years. I can't get any type of algae to grow on it except coralline.
I cured them in a river behind my house for 3 months.

And that is probably your saving grace Trout - you have any idea of the water flow of that river? Most home kured rock is cured in a bucket, or barrel, and if it is lucky it gets one water change a day. Your rock had literally thousands of gallons of water flow through/around it, as well as alga types from the freshwater that probably helped create the nutrient lessened "shell" around it, and thereby not giving the pest algaes much, if anything to feast on. Trout, from what I read, you are the exception, not the rule.
Good Job!
But most of us don't have access to free flowing rivers (I do now! Hehe!), so comparing your results to a bucket kured batch is sort of unfair, and stating that since your experience varies, that it must be something else is unfair too

 

[Icefire]

asbestos.... don't start on that, it's the mining that is dangerous..

Look at Mr.Wilson tank, he used Quikwall to make a whole background in his tank.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9005386#post9005386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pito
What are you all doing with the wast water? Can it be used to wash clothes or something?

:rollface: Yes Pito wash all your clothes in the waste water, especially underwear. A few second degree alkalie burns never hurt anyone. :rollface: Even if you had some way to recycle it through your washing machine, it would ruin your clothes and the machine. About the only thing you could recycle it for would be to raise the pH of a too acidic lawn or flower bed. If it's too strong it would hurt the existing plants until it stabilizes. One other possibility I've tried it on is to pour it out on a gravel path. Full strength it seems to annoy the weeds that show up in the gravel.

 

[Insane Reefer]

...is glad she has gut feelings...
LOL
Ouch!!!

 

[Fishboy1230]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9014563#post9014563 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Icefire
Fishboy1230

How much salt you use with Quickwall?

I used about i hand full of small salt and 5 or 6 large chunks of driveway salt on top to add bigger dents TO about 2 cups of quik crete
and some water.....
but it definatly needs to cure--ph was off charts after 2 weeks took like 4-5 to get it down to 8.6

 

[Fishboy1230]

A whole nother question:

Is it ok to make freshwater rocks?
and
How long of curing (is time different)?

 

[Holmez221b]

If the cure time is the same... what is the benefit of using Quickwall???

 

[Insane Reefer]

I'd imagine you could make some really cool freshwater rocks. They make decorative water features with koi out of cement all the time, so see no reason why not. I'd imagine you'd still want to kure it though.
I used to keep freshwater, but that was a long time ago. If there is no "beneficial" reason to use it, you just want something cool, I'd skip the coral and sea based items, and use deco rock or pea type gravels and salt for your aggregate. With forms made of cardboard and duct tape, you could make structures like pyramids or bridges...

 

[Icefire]

Fishboy1230 might be the salt that drive the ph high?

 

[jjoos99]

This might be a silly question but the 2-3 to 1 ratio is that being measured by volume or by weight. I mixed up a batch tonight by weight and it didnt seem like much concrete verses salt.
Thanks
Jeff

 

[Barto]

parts are measured by volume

 

[Aqua Keepers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9015468#post9015468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodophyta
:rollface: Yes Pito wash all your clothes in the waste water, especially underwear. A few second degree alkalie burns never hurt anyone. :rollface: Even if you had some way to recycle it through your washing machine, it would ruin your clothes and the machine. About the only thing you could recycle it for would be to raise the pH of a too acidic lawn or flower bed. If it's too strong it would hurt the existing plants until it stabilizes. One other possibility I've tried it on is to pour it out on a gravel path. Full strength it seems to annoy the weeds that show up in the gravel.

LOL... My "boyz" just shrivled when I read that. Glad i asked before I tried to use it.