The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9014919#post9014919 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
Hypsoblennius, endodonic cement is dental cement - much different from Portland cement. Dental cements are usually a calcium based cement, nothing like Portland.

Plus that info to me says not that the cement is leeching anything, but that those two elements do the leeching....

Ah yes, good point. That's the problem with a quick 5 minute google search and the copy/paste function. Details are sometimes overlooked by the overzealous poster:D I saw the beginning of the paragraph talking about Portland cement and I jumped the gun.

We still do have the question about cement containing phosphates, don't we? Or no?

My Bad! :hmm5:
 
I'd really like to know for certain about the phosphate issue. I honestly don't know if cement contains them or not - I too got busy on google and didn't find anything either way. I didn't have a lot of time, and was just starting to look for study reports, but didn't come up with good info...
Someone posted the main ingredient list, and it listed 2 silicates. I have no idea which silicates grow algae, but know that at least one type does. That might be a concern for fresh rock - dunno.
 
I apologize for the quality of the pics. The image resizer I'm using is degrading the quality of the original pic a little too much.

I made approximately 80% of the rock in this tank. I can't tell you how many pounds are in it but the tank is 150g. Also, the rock looks completely convincing and can't be distinguished from the real thing, especially once the coralline has covered it. It's very hard for me to pic out the pieces I made in the tank from the natural ones.

I would also like to add that I utilize a plenum, protein skimmer and a deep sand bed in my tank. The tank has been set up for 6 years now. All of the agrocrete has been in the tank for at least 2 years and most has been in it for more than 3. I haven't had any stability issues with water parameters since using the oystershell, either. This oystershell was collected by myself from the bay. I didn't purchase it from a feed store. I am not sure how they handle the oystershell and am unaware if the shell they provide presents any issues. Anyways, I don't have any hair algae and only have to clean a little diatoms from the glass every couple of days or so.

I have a mix of LPS, SPS, and softies and none have shown a problem with the agrocrete. However, I didn't take any shortcuts to cure it and didn't introduce anything other than oystershell, crushed coral, and Type II Portland Cement into my recipe. These rocks all cured for a minimum of 3 months before they were pulled from the river behind my house.

I would also like to say, that the river is far from being pristine. It isn't any mountain stream. The corals have never reacted negatively to the manmade rocks presence in my tank as all of these corals have grown from much smaller frags.

Here's a couple of pics I took last night. As you can see, I don't have a phospate problem.

377021-19-07_Tank2.jpg


377021-19-07_Tank1-med.jpg


377021-19-07_Tank3.jpg
 
So lets say that a person cures the rocks for however long it takes to get the ph down to normal (2-3 months). After that, they take them out of the water and let them sit around until its ready to put them in a tank.

I would think you could let them sit dry for any extended period of time after the cure and use them at a later date. Thoughts?
 
You should be able to let them stay dry after curing for as long as you want. Nothing that "grows" on them will survive the trip from FW to SW. The appropriate bacteria will populate the rocks once they enter your SW setup.

I powerwash mine off and make sure that everything that was "alive" on them is gone. I then let them sit "dry" for awhile to make sure that I'm not going to introduce any decaying organisms into my SW tank. In fact, I let them "bake" in the sun to insure that no organic matter will be in or on them when I put them into the tank.
 
Where's the rock speckled trout! :) Looks great man. Looks like you saved a few bucks on the rock and ended with an amazing result!

I think people who have not been successful with their own rocks tend to like to save money at every corner and skimp on other essentials (good skimmer, proper filtration, proper flow, good husbandry skill, proper spectrum light, etc.)as well.

Bad results happen when you cut too many corners and try to save too much money, so it can't always be blamed on the rock, but the reefer.

Cheers,
John
 
I was following this thread at the begining and am not about to look through 20 pages for one question so here goes did anyone ever try to use the color stuff that is made to color grout with any success or adverse affects.
 
I've used the colored dye for cement and Krylon paint to create "artifical coralline" on the rocks, in the past. It gets covered by the "real stuff" soon enough, though.

By the way, I've been using Krylon paint on aquarium items for many years now. Hasn't caused any problems for me.
 
Great corals Trout - I'll second the question; Where's the rock?

Do you have any pics of the "before you put it in and covered it all with coral" time?

lol

Lovely tank though.
 
This place has some great, affordable colors to spice up your rock.

I had contacted the vendor a while back, and was assured that these would be non-toxic and would not leech (very much) color into the tank, which I am thinking means that a bit will be released when we first are kuring it, but should be colorfast after that...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9022037#post9022037 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rufio173
Bad results happen when you cut too many corners and try to save too much money, so it can't always be blamed on the rock, but the reefer.

In a thread like this, if a lot of people weren't having/didn't have some algae issues, they would be speaking up, vociferously. :bounce2:

So far, like only Trout (and a few others too) has said he didn't have problems, and also explained that his rocks were cured in a river.

Ever seen fresh poured (2 or 3 years old or less) cement in a pond or river? Like pilings or ramps? And it is covered with algae, yet the rocks nearby are not? Wonder why?

Lime, one of the components of cement is a FERTILIZER. The rocks we make are BIG BALLS of FERTILIZER, especially in the first months of their creation. I don't know about the other components of cement, but I know Lime grows Grass and Plants.

My very first batch that I made, like 7 years ago was for a shroom tank. The tank was doing great, had been up and running for like 6 months at that point, had an algae outbreak during like month 2, but it went away on its own. SO no algae to speak of and I added 2 pieces that had cured for 3 months. Within a week, I had green splotches of algae covering the new rock. Not anything else at that point. Within 3 weeks, I had hair algae in tufts, spreading out from the rocks, starting to grow on things more heavily that either were the rocks, or close to the rocks. A month later I bought a pair of queen conchs and a lawnmower blenny (They are so fun!), and after like 3 months, I had no more algae problems, and coralline started to take root. In 6 months, my rocks were covering readily in good stuff and my problems were over.

I for one understand this about the rock, and accept it as the "cost" of using DIY rock. But on the up side, I get shapes that I could never hope to purchase, have a lot of fun making it, and know in my heart that I, in this instance, didn't contribute to stripping our reefs.

Those who want to use DIY need to realize that this will probably happen to you too unless you can kure the rock in a free flowing waterway. And realize that it isn't a disaster, and that it will go away once the easily extracted nutrients are used up.

If you can't kure in a waterway, and are really concerned with algae, you might try introducing some algae to the kuring tank/bucket after it is done kuring, and let the algae do what it wants for a while.

Either that or buy your man made rock from the pros, who's rock is well kured for 6-12 months usually, often in the ocean, and then seeded in the ocean or tanks - but that stuff costs as much as good real rock.

I know it may seem like I am crazed, but saying that this rock won't cause algae blooms, or that it has to be something else is just plain irresponsible. I agree that often people do cut corners, or are lazy and this causes problems a lot too, but if the problem in the tank is algae, and you are using DIY rock that you made, and other things were ok before the rock was added, chances are good that the cement is responsible, and that time will cure the algae.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9023068#post9023068 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pattylucylaura
...since the only color portland I can get is gray.

Instead of looking at hardware stores, look under cement or building bricks/blocks in the yellow pages. I found white portland at a place locally called "Midwest Brick and Block" - granted, it was $20 a bag, but I have nice white rocks :)

You might also check and see if you have any statuary places, they often use white cement, and even if they don't sell it retail, you might get them to sell you a bag if you ask nicely...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8999035#post8999035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Joshsmit56001
Is there really any truth to the idea that curing the rock in RO water is better than tap water with regards to algae growth? ...RO/DI water use during this process just seems ridiculous to me because you are actually using a heck of a lot more water than if you used tap water.

I've given this some thought (lol).
IF the cement you bought isn't manufactured in an area that also manufactures phoshates,
and IF you used RO/DI to make the rock,
and IF you only used RO/DI to kure the rock,

Then you will probably have rocks that will be less likely to bloom, especially due to phosphates.

However, if your rock has ever been exposed to rain, or ground water or tap water, then you almost have to assume you have at least trace amounts of phosphates and other stuff absorbed into the rocks. So even if cement contains 0% phosphates, the water most of us use does contain phosphates and cement absorbs stuff...

HTH
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9011164#post9011164 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greatgman001
hey guys
i need to ask why my rock is splitting and turning to mush
i used bsb recipe #3

I noticed no one had answered you, so I'll at least talk at you :)

I'm not sure what "Recipe 3" entails, but I now use a 1-1.5 cement / 1.5 sand / 1 other / 1 salt recipe for my rock.

An important bit I figured out, or at least works better for me, is to not add the salt until you have finished mixing the cement. Salt is known to retard curing (hardening) time for cement products as well as strength, and early on in the DIY rock world, experiments were done making mixes with salt, but those mostly came to naught as the rock was mostly too brittle.
I attribute that problem to using too small a grain of salt, and too much mixing of the salt with the cement.

Try adding your salt just before you go to cast your pieces, and then don't mix it up too much. Also use cold water, and don't use too much. That is sort of the hardest part to explain to someone, is when the cement is "just right", but if it is wet enough to "splat", but dry enough to stand up in a peak, than it is probably pretty close to right. Cast your rocks, and then cover in plastic, or a lid or whatever - you want the moisture to remain as long as possible - moisture causes hardness, salt wicks moisture, so you should try sealing the rocks up.

Also, and this, for me at least, is the hardest part. Don't disturb it AT ALL for at least 48 hours.

Good luck!
 
Hi guys, longtime reader first time poster!

:strooper:

Is it possible to get an update on the current recipes? Say every 5 or 10 pages?

Just a thought.

Anyway I just made my second rock today, and added to my first rock. So it is better to mix the salt in afterward? I mixed it with the cement and sand first. I will have to see how this works out.
 
Noise, The general mix has not changed 2.5parts salt : 1part portland. However, people are adding different thing to the mix like sand, crushed coral, etc.

What is the white stuff that builds up on the bottom of my curing container? I was thinking salt, but these rocks have been curing for a couple weeks.
 
wow...58 pages of DIY rock fun.

Thanks for the inspiration and the loss of 3 hours reading this thread. I'm off to HD to grab some supplies!

I'll let yall know how it goes eh.
 
You didn't ask, but the best advice I have is to start with small batches, enough for just a few rocks. That will allow you to get a "feel" for the consistancy of the mix and also to practice your rock-making skills.

Best of luck, eh
 
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