Fishboy1230
New member
Noise, what store did you try?
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
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hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Well, whatever works for you! But from others here, the portland type 1 (type 10 in Canada?) has taken them a very long time to cure. I hear of people trying to cure it over 2-3 months and still having pH issues. Thats not to say that after that period is done that its any different, but the main reason I suggest Type 3 is its quicker cure time. Obviously, after you've had them for 10 years the pH buffering wont be a problem no matter what you have.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/materialsgrp/cement.html
speckled trout
New member
That's a different fish. Mine aren't that color. However, this is what they are known as locally, which may be different than what others call them. Their behavior sounds about the same, though.
hahnmeister, I wasn't trying to say that yours method wasn't okay. I'm only saying that what your saying can be misleading or misinterpreted by others. The kind that I buy is marked Type I/II, not just Type I. It doesn't cause problems. I cure my rocks for 3 months in a river. As with anything in this hobby, if it happens too fast it probably isn't good.
Have fun making rocks-Mike
hahnmeister, I wasn't trying to say that yours method wasn't okay. I'm only saying that what your saying can be misleading or misinterpreted by others. The kind that I buy is marked Type I/II, not just Type I. It doesn't cause problems. I cure my rocks for 3 months in a river. As with anything in this hobby, if it happens too fast it probably isn't good.
Have fun making rocks-Mike
I figured that dr F&S might be offering a different fish known as a barnacle blenny. I meant to make a note of that in my last post.
OK things are confusing enough, so I am wondering if anyone knows what the difference is for the stuff called "Masonry Cement Type N" from quickcrete. Also has anyone seen this "new" product from a company called RapidSet? apparently it sets in an hour. If I get a chance I will look up an MSDS. but don't rely on me. I am flakey.
OK things are confusing enough, so I am wondering if anyone knows what the difference is for the stuff called "Masonry Cement Type N" from quickcrete. Also has anyone seen this "new" product from a company called RapidSet? apparently it sets in an hour. If I get a chance I will look up an MSDS. but don't rely on me. I am flakey.
Insane Reefer
New member
Cement types vary by locale - in colder climes, type 3 in the standard, but most places in the US, type I, II or I/II are prevalent. Doesn't matter where you shop unless you order a pallet...
Insane Reefer
New member
Thoughts on Oyster Shell
Thoughts on Oyster Shell
Oyster Shell has been a standard of man made rock for over two decades. It is cheap. It is natural and it slowly makes calcium available to the system. I personally had always been afraid of Oyster Shell as a potential for concentrated phosphate, as I assumed that chemicals containing phosphates were used to process the shells. In part I was right â€"œ shells do contain at least trace amounts of phosphate, but then so do most things we put in our tanks, including the rock we are making.
So I have decided to quit worrying about phosphates completely. I’ve read that acid baths will remove the phosphates if you really feel it is necessary. If problems arise that can be directly traced to phosphates, and skimming isn’t working, use one of the readily available and not terribly expensive removal media’s. End of that story
This all came to a head when the guy at the LFS asked if I would make some rock with OS for him, so he could see the difference in the CC vs the OS. I explained my fears to him, but agreed; money is money after all. But having some ethics, I did a little research, and could find no real reason for not at least trying the stuff. The cleaning process uses no chemicals that I can find, and this stuff is actually pretty â€"œ not like the last time I bought OS for my chickens 10 years ago. Oyster shell used to be just that â€"œ heavy, grey and ugly oyster shells. This stuff is a mix of a lot of stuff â€"œ oyster is in majority, but I have seen at least 10 other species of shell in this bag.
My local feed store had “Sea Gull†brand oyster shell for $9 a 50lbs. I bought a bag and brought it home. When I opened it and ran my hand through the top layer, I noticed these wooly little balls. I tried picking them out, and then tried floating them out, and decided this was going to be more effort than it was worth. I remembered someone a while back in this thread posting about the same thing, and the consensus of what they might be was narrowed to mangrove roots or the grisly remains of a bivalves foot, and being lazy and not wanting to try to remove this stuff, I got curious. I have a friend at the university getting a degree in genetics. He is working p/t at a genetic lab doing paternal testing. I asked him to see if he could at least narrow the choice to animal or plant. He was able to go one better and said that based on the chloroplasts he studied, he would hazard that these are the remains of kelp or algae holdfasts. This being the case, I feel no need whatsoever in removing them.
So I’ve made up my sample batch and we will see. It does make nice looking light weight rock, especially in the white portland. It is cheap. I am going to see if said friend can do a phosphate test for me, or the LFS guy and see what is to be seen, but if not, I am not really going to worry about it anymore. I’ve seen my rock in established systems, my own in the past and in commercial LFS recently, and it blooms a little with green algae, but then slowly turns pink and purple...
Thoughts on Oyster Shell
Oyster Shell has been a standard of man made rock for over two decades. It is cheap. It is natural and it slowly makes calcium available to the system. I personally had always been afraid of Oyster Shell as a potential for concentrated phosphate, as I assumed that chemicals containing phosphates were used to process the shells. In part I was right â€"œ shells do contain at least trace amounts of phosphate, but then so do most things we put in our tanks, including the rock we are making.
So I have decided to quit worrying about phosphates completely. I’ve read that acid baths will remove the phosphates if you really feel it is necessary. If problems arise that can be directly traced to phosphates, and skimming isn’t working, use one of the readily available and not terribly expensive removal media’s. End of that story
This all came to a head when the guy at the LFS asked if I would make some rock with OS for him, so he could see the difference in the CC vs the OS. I explained my fears to him, but agreed; money is money after all. But having some ethics, I did a little research, and could find no real reason for not at least trying the stuff. The cleaning process uses no chemicals that I can find, and this stuff is actually pretty â€"œ not like the last time I bought OS for my chickens 10 years ago. Oyster shell used to be just that â€"œ heavy, grey and ugly oyster shells. This stuff is a mix of a lot of stuff â€"œ oyster is in majority, but I have seen at least 10 other species of shell in this bag.
My local feed store had “Sea Gull†brand oyster shell for $9 a 50lbs. I bought a bag and brought it home. When I opened it and ran my hand through the top layer, I noticed these wooly little balls. I tried picking them out, and then tried floating them out, and decided this was going to be more effort than it was worth. I remembered someone a while back in this thread posting about the same thing, and the consensus of what they might be was narrowed to mangrove roots or the grisly remains of a bivalves foot, and being lazy and not wanting to try to remove this stuff, I got curious. I have a friend at the university getting a degree in genetics. He is working p/t at a genetic lab doing paternal testing. I asked him to see if he could at least narrow the choice to animal or plant. He was able to go one better and said that based on the chloroplasts he studied, he would hazard that these are the remains of kelp or algae holdfasts. This being the case, I feel no need whatsoever in removing them.
So I’ve made up my sample batch and we will see. It does make nice looking light weight rock, especially in the white portland. It is cheap. I am going to see if said friend can do a phosphate test for me, or the LFS guy and see what is to be seen, but if not, I am not really going to worry about it anymore. I’ve seen my rock in established systems, my own in the past and in commercial LFS recently, and it blooms a little with green algae, but then slowly turns pink and purple...
speckled trout
New member
Insane Reefer, I've posted pics of my tank trying to convince people that oystershell is okay to use. Its been getting tested for years, in my tanks. Do not be reluctant to utilize this cheap substance. I get mine for free out in the bay. It doesn't get any cheaper than that!
Guys, this isn't stuff I just recently added to my systems, either. Much of it has been in there for years. They are stable and aren't phosphate "sponges" that are going to crumble anytime soon, either. Any DIY rock will crumble if you don't use enough cement in your mixture. If you don't keep it moist or wet, as it hardens, it'll be brittle. If it hardens too fast, it'll be weak. Prevent these issues and you'll end up with very solid rock that'll last as long as the real stuff.
And, yes, it'll grow algae on its surface just like "real" live rock will, if you don't control phosphates and other nutrients. Algae will grow on any non-living substance if you meet it's nutritional requirements and provide it light. Heck, it'll even try to grow on your corals! :mad2:
My rocks don't have any algae on them because I keep my phosphates low or nonexistent, which every reefer should be striving to do. Just because algae grows on something doesn't mean that it's leaching something, either. I don't think plastic is leaching too many phosphates but algae will grow on it!
The same for your aquarium's glass because algae will grow on it, too.
Crushed oystershell's irregular shaped surface also makes it easier to create porosity. Symmetrically shaped sand, dolomite or finely crushed coral will produce non porous rock when the cement hardens. It'll basically be just a solid rock without as much surface area as those made with oystershell. If you utilize a relatively dry cement to shell mixture you'll be able to control the shapes of your rocks and the cement will not "run" together and solidfy into one "solid" non-porous rock. You'll end up with lots of little cavities once the cement hardens.
Don't be afraid to use it. It will work. Just keep your water parameters correct and the only thing that'll end up growing on it will be coralline and coral!:dance: :rollface:
Guys, this isn't stuff I just recently added to my systems, either. Much of it has been in there for years. They are stable and aren't phosphate "sponges" that are going to crumble anytime soon, either. Any DIY rock will crumble if you don't use enough cement in your mixture. If you don't keep it moist or wet, as it hardens, it'll be brittle. If it hardens too fast, it'll be weak. Prevent these issues and you'll end up with very solid rock that'll last as long as the real stuff.
And, yes, it'll grow algae on its surface just like "real" live rock will, if you don't control phosphates and other nutrients. Algae will grow on any non-living substance if you meet it's nutritional requirements and provide it light. Heck, it'll even try to grow on your corals! :mad2:
My rocks don't have any algae on them because I keep my phosphates low or nonexistent, which every reefer should be striving to do. Just because algae grows on something doesn't mean that it's leaching something, either. I don't think plastic is leaching too many phosphates but algae will grow on it!
The same for your aquarium's glass because algae will grow on it, too. Crushed oystershell's irregular shaped surface also makes it easier to create porosity. Symmetrically shaped sand, dolomite or finely crushed coral will produce non porous rock when the cement hardens. It'll basically be just a solid rock without as much surface area as those made with oystershell. If you utilize a relatively dry cement to shell mixture you'll be able to control the shapes of your rocks and the cement will not "run" together and solidfy into one "solid" non-porous rock. You'll end up with lots of little cavities once the cement hardens.
Don't be afraid to use it. It will work. Just keep your water parameters correct and the only thing that'll end up growing on it will be coralline and coral!:dance: :rollface:
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Insane Reefer
New member
NY? Upstate? You shouldn't need to order it online - that would end up bringing the price up to the cost of a bag of CC at the LFS (shipping sucks). You should have plenty of "feed stores" around - any place that sells farm animal feeds (farmer stores) will have OS. That will be your best bet - a 50lbs bag should run just under $10.
HTH
speckled trout
New member
Hypsoblennius,
This is a pic of one of my blennies that I caught offshore. It's coloration differs greatly from the time I caught it. It was much more black and had reddish dots instead of yellowwish green. The little "barbs" on its head where red intially, as well. I guess they can change their colors to stay camo'd in their environment.
In this picture, you can see all the different colors of coralline that'll grow on rocks made with Portland Type I/II mixed with oystershells. They end up looking exactly like the real stuff.
This is a pic of one of my blennies that I caught offshore. It's coloration differs greatly from the time I caught it. It was much more black and had reddish dots instead of yellowwish green. The little "barbs" on its head where red intially, as well. I guess they can change their colors to stay camo'd in their environment.
In this picture, you can see all the different colors of coralline that'll grow on rocks made with Portland Type I/II mixed with oystershells. They end up looking exactly like the real stuff.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Oh yeah, they are very cool blennies 
I think that those are Scartella cristata a.k.a. Molly Miller blennies. They have a ton of personality!
http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3770
I had one a long long time ago and it was one of my favorite fish of all time!
Thanks for the pic! It's my wallpaper today!!!! (hope that's OK with ya)
I think that those are Scartella cristata a.k.a. Molly Miller blennies. They have a ton of personality!http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3770
I had one a long long time ago and it was one of my favorite fish of all time!
Thanks for the pic! It's my wallpaper today!!!! (hope that's OK with ya)
speckled trout
New member
So, do you want one?
Also, I can get you as many as you want come July and August.
Also, I can get you as many as you want come July and August.
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Travis L. Stevens
Active member
I've got a Molly Miller as well. It's my wife's favorite fish.
Insane Reefer
New member
Hey - since this has morphed into a temporary Blennie thread, want to ask about Bi-color Blennies. Anyone had them, and if so, are they a good choice for a nano?
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
Thoughts & ideas like this one make RC such a great place, thinking outside the box leads to better ways to get things done.
I don't know if any co2 release would be a benefit since it would occour so quickly, but the rapid disolving would make great pockets, if this dissolves too fast, maybe there is something slower than this but still faster than salt.
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