Insane Reefer
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Does the clown accept the toy?
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
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Travis L. Stevens
Active member
When I first had the clowns, for the first six months they didn't do anything. For fun, I wanted an anemone. But I don't want a real one because they walk and sting and get caught in powerheads and the list goes on. So, instead, I got one of these. I cut the "plug" out of the bottom, pulled the LED bulbs out, and put a rock in to sink it. Mind you, I had to use a CC:Sand:Cement piece of rubble, and not my Salt:Cement ones. The Salt:Cement ones weren't heavy enough to keep it from rolling in the current. Shortly after adding it, the male and female started playing in it a little, but then they went to a toadstool, then to some green star polyps, then to some zoanthids, then back to the pseudo-anemone, and then to something else. In the end, they never hosted and stayed, nor have they in anything else. I think if you have a clown with a strong hosting instinct, it will jump right in.
Insane Reefer
New member
Very cool, Travis.
Anyway, I have something to report
Test Batch 1 has sat in FW for 24 hours now. Just as with any other rock kuring, there is a bit of skim on top of the water, so I would leave this in a soak for a couple more days, however, a pH test today shows a result of 8.4!!! I will test again tomorrow, to see if it rises anymore and post those results.
To refresh those who might be going, "Huh?", this test is on rock that is 5-7 weeks old, and never kured - only left out dry for this time. This experiment was to determine if rock left dry would kure without any water at all.
It seems this might be a factual statement. More testing will need to be done, of course, but this test indicates that dry kuring might not be a pipe dream, and that more testing should be done.
:dance:
Anyway, I have something to report
Test Batch 1 has sat in FW for 24 hours now. Just as with any other rock kuring, there is a bit of skim on top of the water, so I would leave this in a soak for a couple more days, however, a pH test today shows a result of 8.4!!! I will test again tomorrow, to see if it rises anymore and post those results.
To refresh those who might be going, "Huh?", this test is on rock that is 5-7 weeks old, and never kured - only left out dry for this time. This experiment was to determine if rock left dry would kure without any water at all.
It seems this might be a factual statement. More testing will need to be done, of course, but this test indicates that dry kuring might not be a pipe dream, and that more testing should be done.
:dance:
Holmez221b
New member
Anybody make rock with Hydraulic cement??
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
I just got my 1st batch into a drying vat 2 days ago and I'm curious about this dry cure. I used a 2.5pt salt: 0.5 pt play sand:1 cement (portland no. 1) ratio. Guess it will be about 26 more days of misting till I find out myself.
Insane Reefer
New member
Check out this thread Reef Ceramics
The title is sort of misleading, but the info you want is there - "Mr Wilson" has quite a bit to say on this subject, and sounds like he knows what he is talking about...
HTH
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
Insane Reefer: Woot Woot! 
That is a good start. I'll definitely have to make a large batch of rocks in order to do the experiment to scale.
That is a good start. I'll definitely have to make a large batch of rocks in order to do the experiment to scale.
Insane Reefer
New member
Hey
Test Batch 1 raised up to pH of 9 today, but still. A drop to 9 from 12-13, with no water used and pretty much same time frame is cool in my book
It is worth further experiments.
Test Batch 1 raised up to pH of 9 today, but still. A drop to 9 from 12-13, with no water used and pretty much same time frame is cool in my book
It is worth further experiments.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9492892#post9492892 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
Hey
Test Batch 1 raised up to pH of 9 today, but still. A drop to 9 from 12-13, with no water used and pretty much same time frame is cool in my book
It is worth further experiments.
How many hours do you think it has soaked now? In your honest opinion, could a dry kured rock have the potential of adding a temporary supply of Calcium Hydroxide?
Insane Reefer
New member
Travis, the rock had been in the water for 45 hours when I tested the second time - tomorrows test will be the clincher; after 3 days pH usually rises in the water to its peak.
If tomorrows test shows no higher than 9pH, then yes, I think if used sparingly, one could use the rock to help maintain levels of ALK. Calcium Hydroxide I'm not sure on - I've never done corals that required dosing, or at least not much more than a bit that comes in my supplement, so am sort of sketchy on that aspect of the hobby. I think a lot depends on how much of the CH remains "free" in the rock and/or how quickly it dissolves in solution.
But lets not get ahead of ourselves; more research needs to be completed on 28 day old rock, becuase all we have now is one small test batch, that granted, is showing hopeful results, but we need more data...
I certainly think this is worth looking into, with several experienced people doing the tests. 10g tanks would suffice I think, and could even be done outside now that it is warming up. It would need to be saltwater testing though - save some change water and setup the tanks, and get reading for each. Add rock that is 28 days old, plus one week of fw soak, so 35 days old total. I would use a one pound test piece, and start at a 1:10 ratio - and see what it does. Coralline will need to be introduced as something that consumes calcium will be needed, but just scraping some off a snail or two or a tank wall should do, but this will require light, another reason outside would work well - use the sun and save some electricity.
I think we need some volunteers
If tomorrows test shows no higher than 9pH, then yes, I think if used sparingly, one could use the rock to help maintain levels of ALK. Calcium Hydroxide I'm not sure on - I've never done corals that required dosing, or at least not much more than a bit that comes in my supplement, so am sort of sketchy on that aspect of the hobby. I think a lot depends on how much of the CH remains "free" in the rock and/or how quickly it dissolves in solution.
But lets not get ahead of ourselves; more research needs to be completed on 28 day old rock, becuase all we have now is one small test batch, that granted, is showing hopeful results, but we need more data...
I certainly think this is worth looking into, with several experienced people doing the tests. 10g tanks would suffice I think, and could even be done outside now that it is warming up. It would need to be saltwater testing though - save some change water and setup the tanks, and get reading for each. Add rock that is 28 days old, plus one week of fw soak, so 35 days old total. I would use a one pound test piece, and start at a 1:10 ratio - and see what it does. Coralline will need to be introduced as something that consumes calcium will be needed, but just scraping some off a snail or two or a tank wall should do, but this will require light, another reason outside would work well - use the sun and save some electricity.
I think we need some volunteers
Last edited:
Insane Reefer
New member
LOL, mention volunteers and everyone clams up...
Anyway, Test Batch 1 has completed its 3 day test soak. At 72 hours, the rock tested at 9.5pH. I have now refilled with clean FW and will test again in 72 hours. I am theorizing that the next 3 day reading will be lower, in the range of 8's. Any wagers?
Anyway, Test Batch 1 has completed its 3 day test soak. At 72 hours, the rock tested at 9.5pH. I have now refilled with clean FW and will test again in 72 hours. I am theorizing that the next 3 day reading will be lower, in the range of 8's. Any wagers?
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
I'm game for tryin out the dry kure.
On tuesday i got a small batch goin using 2.5 salt 0.5 part play sand and 1 part quikrete type I portland cement.
I ended up making 5 pieces. I like how most of em turned out but the dome needs a little refinement. If I can make it look better each "tunnel" is going to be sealed off with gutter guard and silicone so it can serve as an in-tank refugium. Maybe I could combine the improved dome (not yet constructed) with this one and make a sphere for more refugium space. Does anybody have suggestions as to what I should place in the sphere? I was thinking either rubble, biobale or empty.
I used a little 5" play ball from walmart as the mold and individual bubbles(from the bubble wrap) to attempt tunnels in the dome but most of them shifted and only 3 or 4 actual tunnels resulted.
I tried the twisted bubble wrap strips mentioned earlier in the thread on the bottom piece to make two tunnels and it works perfectly. One of the tunnels accidently linked up with the cave on the bottom side of the piece (which i thought was kinda cool). Using a hemostat to twist the plastic makes removal very easy.
The rocks haven't been soaked in water yet, they've only been subjected to a brief rinse to make them more photogenic. Right now theyre all sitting in a tote with a lid on the back deck.
If I understand correctly, we're trying to test how long they need to be soaked after dry kuring for about a month. Guess it will be mid to late april til i report back with the results.
On tuesday i got a small batch goin using 2.5 salt 0.5 part play sand and 1 part quikrete type I portland cement.
I ended up making 5 pieces. I like how most of em turned out but the dome needs a little refinement. If I can make it look better each "tunnel" is going to be sealed off with gutter guard and silicone so it can serve as an in-tank refugium. Maybe I could combine the improved dome (not yet constructed) with this one and make a sphere for more refugium space. Does anybody have suggestions as to what I should place in the sphere? I was thinking either rubble, biobale or empty.
I used a little 5" play ball from walmart as the mold and individual bubbles(from the bubble wrap) to attempt tunnels in the dome but most of them shifted and only 3 or 4 actual tunnels resulted.
I tried the twisted bubble wrap strips mentioned earlier in the thread on the bottom piece to make two tunnels and it works perfectly. One of the tunnels accidently linked up with the cave on the bottom side of the piece (which i thought was kinda cool). Using a hemostat to twist the plastic makes removal very easy.
The rocks haven't been soaked in water yet, they've only been subjected to a brief rinse to make them more photogenic. Right now theyre all sitting in a tote with a lid on the back deck.
If I understand correctly, we're trying to test how long they need to be soaked after dry kuring for about a month. Guess it will be mid to late april til i report back with the results.
GuySmilie
Premium Member
My next trip near Lowe's or Menards I will pick up a couple of those poured concrete paver bricks. Less than a buck each. Will try to find some that have 'wintered over' in their patio department. Testing those should reveal some facts about soaking the concrete for many weeks.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9495039#post9495039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
....But lets not get ahead of ourselves; more research needs to be completed on 28 day old rock, becuase all we have now is one small test batch, that granted, is showing hopeful results, but we need more data...I think we need some volunteers
Guy
Insane Reefer
New member
Thank you, Rustylugnuts. The more results we have, the more we will learn
GuySmilie, I am not sure how much good testing those pavers will be; they are cast to be solid, not open and porous like what we strive for. Not to mention that they have likely dry kured for a long time - much longer than most of us are willing to wait for our rock to finish. But certainly post results - they might be useful.
GuySmilie, I am not sure how much good testing those pavers will be; they are cast to be solid, not open and porous like what we strive for. Not to mention that they have likely dry kured for a long time - much longer than most of us are willing to wait for our rock to finish. But certainly post results - they might be useful.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
Weekend is over, and I'm back at work. It looks like a lot of stuff has happnened and thank you to everyone for posting their work. I didn't get to make anything this past weekend, but I'll attempt to throughout the week. We'll see how heavy my workload is. I still need to do a water change and some major cleaning in my tank before I really get going with the rocks. I'll keep people posted as it goes.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
Revisitting Vinegar
After doing a little thinking about things that do and don't help speed the underwater Kure process along, I took a look back at our friend Vinegar. Now that we know that Calcium Hydroxide (CaOH) is our pH rising foe, what can we do about it? Well, of course water changes work. But, vinegar is used in kalkwasser dosing in order to raise the amount that can dissolve into the water. Thus, it might be feesible to use some vinegar in the Kuring water to further aid in the CaOH leaching out from the rocks. On the other hand, this does nothing to the pH, and might possibly cause it to raise. But it will at least give our kure water the most bang for the buck between each waterchange. Comments? Thoughts? Suggestions? Volunteers to experiment?
After doing a little thinking about things that do and don't help speed the underwater Kure process along, I took a look back at our friend Vinegar. Now that we know that Calcium Hydroxide (CaOH) is our pH rising foe, what can we do about it? Well, of course water changes work. But, vinegar is used in kalkwasser dosing in order to raise the amount that can dissolve into the water. Thus, it might be feesible to use some vinegar in the Kuring water to further aid in the CaOH leaching out from the rocks. On the other hand, this does nothing to the pH, and might possibly cause it to raise. But it will at least give our kure water the most bang for the buck between each waterchange. Comments? Thoughts? Suggestions? Volunteers to experiment?
Insane Reefer
New member
Crazy? Maybe...
Crazy? Maybe...
Hey All
I was roaming my local ACE Hardware and came across this stuff:
http://www.mkminerals.com/hicalsig.html
MSDS
This is processed as small balls, BB to Pea sized, a light medium brown color, with very little odor.
With permission, I scooped up a bit into a smoke pack, and brought it home for experimentation.
These are my results.
1. When dropped into water, it immediately dissolves with a quick fizz.
2. When mixed into cement, a certain amount bleeds off, discoloring the cement (white goes to almost natural LR color), so this, like salt should be added in to cement at the last before casting.
3. Cement binds with it (duh), and forms a "shell" around the balls, which disallows the balls to dissolve away from the rock with any speed - basically it will dissolve very slowly.
I did not do a hot water soak, so this stuff might dissolve quicker in hot water - I will test that next.
My idea though, far-fetched as it may sound, would be that this stuff added in, but not purposely soaked out, could provide a good source of readily available CA in our rocks, I mean, look at the ingredients - All of it, with exception to the binder, is stuff we put in our tanks everyday. The binder is >2%, so might not even be a factor, but that is why I am posting; I know nothing about lignosulfonates, except that it is a deflocculant, if this is safe, then I think some tests need to be run...
Crazy? Maybe...
Hey All
I was roaming my local ACE Hardware and came across this stuff:
http://www.mkminerals.com/hicalsig.html
MSDS
This is processed as small balls, BB to Pea sized, a light medium brown color, with very little odor.
With permission, I scooped up a bit into a smoke pack, and brought it home for experimentation.
These are my results.
1. When dropped into water, it immediately dissolves with a quick fizz.
2. When mixed into cement, a certain amount bleeds off, discoloring the cement (white goes to almost natural LR color), so this, like salt should be added in to cement at the last before casting.
3. Cement binds with it (duh), and forms a "shell" around the balls, which disallows the balls to dissolve away from the rock with any speed - basically it will dissolve very slowly.
I did not do a hot water soak, so this stuff might dissolve quicker in hot water - I will test that next.
My idea though, far-fetched as it may sound, would be that this stuff added in, but not purposely soaked out, could provide a good source of readily available CA in our rocks, I mean, look at the ingredients - All of it, with exception to the binder, is stuff we put in our tanks everyday. The binder is >2%, so might not even be a factor, but that is why I am posting; I know nothing about lignosulfonates, except that it is a deflocculant, if this is safe, then I think some tests need to be run...
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
For those that would like a quick ingredient breakdown, here you go.
Nice find IR
Nice find IR
Ball
New member
I can gather more accurate data, but I thought I would add my progress so far to see if its on par to the normal cure time or if its accelerated.
I have 80 pounds of newly made rock that I have in about 40 gallons of water. The rock has been in there for 3 weeks. I change water about every other day. The pH is down to about 9.7. Im not sure if thats ahead of the norm or not.
I have an Ocean Runner 6500 that puts out around 1700GPH of flow in the tank, so the water is very turbulant and heats up pretty well. If Im ahead of the norm for curing time, Im guessing this might be the reason.
I have 80 pounds of newly made rock that I have in about 40 gallons of water. The rock has been in there for 3 weeks. I change water about every other day. The pH is down to about 9.7. Im not sure if thats ahead of the norm or not.
I have an Ocean Runner 6500 that puts out around 1700GPH of flow in the tank, so the water is very turbulant and heats up pretty well. If Im ahead of the norm for curing time, Im guessing this might be the reason.
Insane Reefer
New member
Thanks Travis, I've actually known about this stuff for 2 weeks, but wanted to experiment before going "lookie what I found!" - I hate it when people just post stuff with no info, lol.
To be honest, I was disappointed with my results. I was hoping this stuff would leech right out and leave very natural pores behind. In a 3 day FW soak, it dissolved very little, so I shelved the idea.
But your thoughts on fresh rocks and CA/ALK made me remember, so I posted what I had on the stuff. Smarter heads than I will have to figure out if this will work. I guess figuring what the rate of dissolution of the CA would be a first step.
Is it possible (I assume yes) to over-dose CA? What would the poisonous range be?
Ball. A lot of your questions are hard to answer. Kuring time is really affected by thickness of rocks - really thick rocks seem to take longer than rocks that are less than say 4 or 5 inches thick. You also didn't say how long the rocks sat dry before you started to kure - this time is part of the kure time too, sort of.
But it sounds like your rock is coming along well - you have ample water, and more than ample flow. Keep us posted
Travis - your idea on "Vinegar Revisited" is interesting, and logical, however it would make determining if the rock was kured or not pretty difficult - it would take a week or two out of the vinegar before a true pH reading would be available...
?
To be honest, I was disappointed with my results. I was hoping this stuff would leech right out and leave very natural pores behind. In a 3 day FW soak, it dissolved very little, so I shelved the idea.
But your thoughts on fresh rocks and CA/ALK made me remember, so I posted what I had on the stuff. Smarter heads than I will have to figure out if this will work. I guess figuring what the rate of dissolution of the CA would be a first step.
Is it possible (I assume yes) to over-dose CA? What would the poisonous range be?
Ball. A lot of your questions are hard to answer. Kuring time is really affected by thickness of rocks - really thick rocks seem to take longer than rocks that are less than say 4 or 5 inches thick. You also didn't say how long the rocks sat dry before you started to kure - this time is part of the kure time too, sort of.
But it sounds like your rock is coming along well - you have ample water, and more than ample flow. Keep us posted
Travis - your idea on "Vinegar Revisited" is interesting, and logical, however it would make determining if the rock was kured or not pretty difficult - it would take a week or two out of the vinegar before a true pH reading would be available...
?
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