The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[eaj43081]

Just got done making my first batch of mmlr, easier than I thought. I'm doing two seperate batches, one with cement, pulverized limestone, salt at a ratio of 1:2:1, and another of glass block mortar mix, pulverized limetstone, salt, ratio 1:1:2. I am keeping track of everything, money spent on startup material, rock building material, start times, ph levels, ratios used,lbs each ratio makes, and anything else I can think of. I will post results as I go.
IR thanks for the form, started filling it out, will send it to you after first ph test is performed.
Everyone else following along, I will get pictures of the different rocks after they are done baking, probably wed.

 

[GuySmilie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9984072#post9984072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
Rick: I covered Pulverized Limestone back before the first split. We've been able to find Pavestone brand Pulverized Limestone only at Home Depots. It is a sand grain sized sand that is limestone based, but not as pure as Aragonite sand. It still works great for tanks, but is a little more grey. I've also highlighted it in my Want to Start a Marine Aquarium?: A Step by Step Guide thread. Just click the link at the table of contents for Substrates and you'll be taken to lots of info on it as well as putting it to the Vinegar test with real Aragonite sand and play sand.

Rick: You also might want to check out a product called pulverized calcium lime at your local feed store.
It is used as a feed supplement for poultry. It has the consistency of fine sand and is lighter than most of the play & mortar mix sands available at the box stores.

 

[silverwolf72]

Hey would that work for a sand bed?... I know a little off topic

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Guy, I worry a little that the Lime that you have is only 36-40% Calcium. The Pulverized Limestone that I use is detailed in this thread. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=889622

Silverwolf, the one that I just posted for GuySmilie will work fine for a sandbed. The one that Guy posted I would be a little more cautious about.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Okay, Current Test Results.....

May 17, 2007 at ~11:00pm
Mixed up and made 7 DIY rocks that are a little bigger than two fists each. They were made with my stronger recipe since these will bare the brunt of the force for my aquascaping. They were made with a ratio of 1:1+:2 (Sand:Cement:Salt). As usual, I added too much water and had to add cement to thicken it up.

May 21, 2007 at 6:00pm
After a long and hectic weekend, I managed to get some time to pick up where I left off. I kept the rocks in the bathroom that everyone uses to shower in to keep them as moist as possible. Of course, they didn't stay as moist as I wanted. At 6pm, I soaked the rock in cool water for two hours so I could get moisture back inside of them, but not long enough to get lots of water deep inside it. I didn't want a popcorn effect to happen where water boils inside it and makes the rock explode.

May 21, 2007 at 8:00pm
I preheated the oven to 400ºF and got the rocks on a cookie sheet and a couple pyrex dishes filled with water. I made sure to not foil the racks so moisture could freely flow around the rocks and that I don't mess up the thermostat or heating element in the stove.

May 22, 2007 at 12:00am
The rocks are baked. I ran a bathtub of pure hot water for the rocks while they cooled. Since it was getting late and I was getting tired, I put a box fan in front of the rocks to cool them off faster.

May 22, 2007 at 12:30am
The rocks go into the hot water. The temperature of the rocks were about 150-200ºF if I had to guess. Little fizzing happened initially, and it quickly stopped. Hopefully the salt will come out quickly. I added a powerhead into the water to keep it all circulating.

I'll get home tonight and test the pH, test the water for salinity, replace the hot water, and post back here.

 

[Insane Reefer]

Cut Pictures

Cut Pictures

Hey, as promised, I cut open one piece each of the three test batches I made. For my own curiosity, to see what would happen kure-wise, these were all packed densely.

"Ol' Skool+" in grey. No problems. Very little "smoothness" at the crosscut - dense rock cuts smoothly, porous rock doesn't. Grey seems to have a slightly lower pH than the white does.

This rock is cement, sand and salt only, and if you can see it, the center core is still packed with salt - only the outer 1" rim has released This rock also got 2 more releases and an hour boiling.

And this is the white "Ol' Skool+" - very hard to get a pic of the white - the flash wanted to go off, which just completely washed it out to white, so the white rocks looks grey, but it is not.

Recipes were as follows - both "Ol' Skool+" are the same except for color of cement: 1 cement, 1 sand, 1.5 CO, 0.5 CC and 1 salt.
Salt Recipe: 1 cement, 1 sand, 2 salt

 

[Insane Reefer]

Awesome Travis! I'm not sure what sort of results you will get baking it several days from casting - I've fairly certain that the sooner the rock is baked after casting, the better the results will be. From what I have been able to gather, bricks and blocks are cast and baked on the same day, industrially. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if four days does make a difference.

I'm too cheap to want to ruin cookie sheets - I just went nuts with foil, and it didn't seem to prevent the moisture from getting around. I get more room in the oven to bake more rock that way, but you probably have a easier time with cleanup

Little fizzing happened initially, and it quickly stopped.

I'd say the fan really cooled the rocks off. I leave the rocks in the oven with the door closed - I imagine they are still close to 250-300ºF when I've been plunging them, but I have no way to measure that other than against the feeling of pans I've pulled from the oven - the heat bleeds through the silicon mitts I use about as quickly as if I made cookies. And I've noticed the simmering going on for up to 3 minutes.
Keep us posted
Thanks!

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9992765#post9992765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
Awesome Travis! I'm not sure what sort of results you will get baking it several days from casting - I've fairly certain that the sooner the rock is baked after casting, the better the results will be. From what I have been able to gather, bricks and blocks are cast and baked on the same day, industrially. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if four days does make a difference.

Not that I did it on purpose, but I don't see when baking rock makes too much of a difference. After all, baking the rock is supposed to hurry up those C-S-H bonds which can take months to fully form naturally. A few extra days isn't going to be much different in my eyes. But then again.... :shrugs: It'll just be another variable being tested

I'm too cheap to want to ruin cookie sheets - I just went nuts with foil, and it didn't seem to prevent the moisture from getting around. I get more room in the oven to bake more rock that way, but you probably have a easier time with cleanup

Yup. Helps the wife out. I picked up a 3-piece set for $3.17 at WalMart. Pretty cheap compared to lots of foil.

I'd say the fan really cooled the rocks off. I leave the rocks in the oven with the door closed - I imagine they are still close to 250-300ºF when I've been plunging them, but I have no way to measure that other than against the feeling of pans I've pulled from the oven - the heat bleeds through the silicon mitts I use about as quickly as if I made cookies. And I've noticed the simmering going on for up to 3 minutes.
Keep us posted
Thanks!

I only fan cooled them because I was starting to fall asleep standing around. I over-cooled them compared to what I wanted to plunge them as, but it happens. This is a "Half Baked Experiment" isn't it? :lmao:

 

[GuySmilie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9990335#post9990335 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
Guy, I worry a little that the Lime that you have is only 36-40% Calcium. The Pulverized Limestone that I use is detailed in this thread.

Yeah I understand what you mean. I've searched far and wide for the Pavestone product but it is not available to me locally. Wal-Mart does carry some Pavestone products, but not the limestone.

As for the product I referenced for Rick, I personally would only use it as an aggregate for rock, or as a media for a RDSB. It's not light enough (for my tastes) to be used in a display tank.

 

[Insane Reefer]

I agree with Travis and Guy. This stuff (Limestone for Chickens) is great for mixing in the rock and casting in, but the particles are from dust sized, to kosher/pickling salt sized, and not an attractive DSB color when wet. Like Guy, I have some Pavestone products available, at Wally-World and HD, but not the Pulverized Limestone
I think it is a regional thing - like southdown or yardrite used to be.

 

[medic29]

Limestone

Limestone

IR, Guy, Travis: I went out yesterday to my local feed store and picked this up.

I haven't opened the bag up yet. My plan is to use it as sand in my rocks and to make the molds out of for the rock. Will this work out okay? When I open it up I will take some pics of it and post it as well.

My plan was to make some DIY rock this past weekend, but stuff happens. Then I was going to do it yesterday, but while cleaning up the garage and rearranging some stuff I picked up my old stand for my 58 gallon tank and put it on top of another stand. While doing this I pulled a bunch of muscles in my back. Hopefully it gets better soon and I can get a batch of rocks done in the next day or so.

Now would this stuff be okay to use as the sand for the rocks? Insane Reefer, can you describe the recipe for the ol skool rocks?

Thanks

 

[Insane Reefer]

Very cool, Rick.
Nice find. I've been to 2 of the local stores, and they don't carry anything like that. This stuff, depending on its looks could completely be used for DSB We are sort of close - what store did you get that at? A chain store hopefully.

"Ol' Skool+", eh?
1 cement, 1 sand, 1.5 CO, 0.5 CC and 1 salt. Feel free to alter this somewhat - "Ol' Skool" to my mind isn't an exact recipe, but the combination of materials - typically Sand, Crushed Oyster Shell and Crushed Coral. So long as you keep the ratio around 3-5 parts "other" (and the salt counts as other) to 1 part cement, you should feel free to find what makes you happiest rock-wise.
Just be sure to tell us what it was

Dry blend all materials, except salt. I mostly just use my hands, in heavy rubber gloves, and I prefer to mix in a rubbermaid storage container (the really flexible, non-see though type) - I like the right angles, and you can thump them around without breaking them.
Add water, just a bit at a time, and when it starts to get close, just a splash at a time - two tablespoons can be too much at the "getting close point". Once you are satisfied that you have a pretty moist, but not wet mud, add the salt in and gently "toss" it in to blend. Don't overwork it - it shouldn't take more then 15 seconds to mix the salt in.

Wet your casting sand. Again, I like rubbermaids to cast in - the lids keep moisture in, and allow me to reuse the sand over and over. Make whatever shapes you fancy and can manage (I wish I was good at branchy stuff, but can't get the hang of it ), cover completely with wet sand and sort of smooth it in. At this point, you can sort of work your fingers into the mass you have made and give it some randomness, and poke it with a bit of wire. Lacing bits of sand through the structure, as you cast will add porosity and crannies for bugs to live in. Make a ball of sand and place it on a splat of mud and cover almost completely, to make a cave.
Have fun with it.

You did get the form, I sent, correct? If not, PM and I will send again.

Let us know how it goes.
Good Luck!

 

[medic29]

yep, I got the form.

 

[pasafire]

If anyone could email me some photos as this thread is so long or link some websites with photos I would appreciate it!

 

[GuySmilie]

Re: Limestone

Re: Limestone

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9994288#post9994288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by medic29
IR, Guy, Travis: I went out yesterday to my local feed store and picked this up.

I haven't opened the bag up yet.

Looks like some very pure stuff there. Good score, Rick.
Can't wait to see some pix or hear your report.
I get over that way every once in awhile. Which feed store carries it?

 

[shookbrad]

It would be great if someone would take insanereefers summary and several of the photos and post a web site. That would make is much easier for people to get a good summary of the thread without having to hunt through the thousands of posts. I can post it on my web site but I don't have the time to assemble all the knowledge into an acceptable format.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

"Ol' Skool+", eh?
1 cement, 1 sand, 1.5 CO, 0.5 CC and 1 salt. Feel free to alter this somewhat - "Ol' Skool" to my mind isn't an exact recipe, but the combination of materials - typically Sand, Crushed Oyster Shell and Crushed Coral. So long as you keep the ratio around 3-5 parts "other" (and the salt counts as other) to 1 part cement, you should feel free to find what makes you happiest rock-wise.
Just be sure to tell us what it was

Actually, "true" old school never had salt in it, but that's okay. It was originally cement, sand, and crushed coral. Eventually crushed oyster shell found it's way into the mix, mainly as a substitute for crushed coral. After that was done years ago, people have toyed around with things like PVC shavings and such along with things like noodles to try to make voids. Eventually some crazy guy decided adding salt would be perfect for the job.... ....And now you have it.

Rick, that looks just right! I would definitely use it.

shookbrad, something to clean it all up is in the works, but we first need to finish refining the processes. If it helps any, the DIY rock isn't much different than what was on the first page of the first split. All the other posts have mainly been people trying and exploring with little differences. The last page of the second split has almost all the information to date on it. What we've been doing in this third split is exploring new ways to speed up Kure time.

All, I tested my rocks last night and the pH of the water was off the charts, tasted salty, but showed 1.000 on my refractometer. But, my refractometer is calibrated for 1.025 seawater and not low amounts of brine. I then drained the tub and refilled it with hot water.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9997736#post9997736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shookbrad
It would be great if someone would take insanereefers summary and several of the photos and post a web site.

Give me a few weeks - that was something I was going to work on after I have some concrete numbers to post for testing...

I was also thinking of splitting off from this thread after the results are in, to have a clean thread for this new process. The "Name" thread got a few complaints because apparently no one wants to read 10 pages or so, lol.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9997809#post9997809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
Actually, "true" old school never had salt in it, but that's okay.

And that is why I differentiate between them - Ol' Skool+ as opposed to Ol' Skool

But that's ok.

 

[Insane Reefer]

Ok. A while back we were talking about "Air Kuring", and I took a 45 day old piece that had sat out to test. I then treated it with a week or so in a vinegar solution.
First week out, pH was good - around 8.4, but over time it has risen (and I have been good about evaporation) - the test water has risen to 9.5 after a little over a month. But that was with no water changes - something others might want to look into, I'm thinking.

And some more results.
This is from the "Half-Baked" test from like the 6th. I had bathed this in a 2 cup to 1 gallon solution for 3 days. After rinsing 3 day pH was at 9.
Two weeks have passed, sitting in the same water, and results are sitting steady at 9.0. I did have one test result that I got twice, after re-adding water to return it to one gallon, and that was 8.5, but then a few days later it had reached 9 again.

I'm starting to get discouraged
Granted, getting rock to 9.0 in a week is a giant step forward, but I want to take it all the way - and I'm beating myself silly trying to figure out how...
Hopefully the stronger vinegar bath I am having the Lab Monkeys try will do it.