The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

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Here is an important quote from that link:

"Since perlite is a form of natural glass, it is classified as chemically inert and has a pH of approximately 7. "
 
Good link, Neptune.
There is Aluminum again. Granted, less than 10%, but the second ingredient on the list.
Still wonder about it, never was able to pin down a safe/unsafe answer to that.

I do know that the freshwater folks use it to make rock and stuff for their ponds and displays, but freshwater and salt are different.

You just have to wonder why it isn't used by the aquaculture industry when they will use styrofoam to make MMLR, but I've not read of perlite being used...
Styrofoam yes, perlite no.
Why?

I've toyed with the idea over the years Neptune, but always talked myself out of it, lacking hard evidence that it was safe; I just don't have the cash available to make costly mistakes, and with my luck, I'd try it and nuke my tank :sad2:
 
my first thought is that pieces of perlite would always be falling off the rock and floating. not a danger to livestock since it's inert, but may clog things up like powerheads and overflows. I think perlite floats like styrofoam, right?
 
Oh boy does it float.
While looking into perlite on google just a bit ago, I found what I think was a cichlid page - anyway, the person made rock for his tanks and the first pieces floated - too much perlite, not enough ballast...

Though, if you could regulate the height, you could have a free-floating "island", mid-column. Would be weird, but maybe cool. You'd have to find a way to anchor it though, or it might bump into important stuff. So probably a bad idea...
 
It actually contains Aluminum Oxide from what I read. Still a possible issue for corals....I'm with you in that I would be afraid to lose my livestock all because I did something stupid.
I am going to be making my rock with white portland cement, crushed coral, and the rock salt for my new 220g.
Have there really been an common negative effects from using the salt? Does the cement cure well enough to support our needs 99% of the time with that additive.....if so then I see no need to change strategies.
 
Water softener salt works, and so far seems to work just fine. There may be issues down the road, but it probably won't be too much of an issue or a risk.

Many experience better results with mixing the salt in at the last minute and lightly tossing it into the slurry, but it can be done anyway you want to.

Get some pictures of the rock you make :)
 
You could be right - I'm just taking this off the link you posted...
It just says aluminum.

Typical Elemental Analysis:
Silicon 33.8
Aluminum 7.2
Potassium 3.5
Sodium 3.4
Iron 0.6
Calcium 0.6
Magnesium 0.2
Trace 0.2
Oxygen (by difference) 47.5
Net Total 97.0
Bound Water 3.0
Total 100.0
* All analyses are shown in elemental form even though the actual forms present are mixed glassy silicates. Free silica may be present in small amounts, characteristic of the particular ore body. More specific information may be obtained from the ore supplier involved.
 
If the perlite doesn't wash off and leave void spaces (holes), then it serves no purpose as an additive.

I've done a few terrariums where I didn't rinse the perlite completely from the root mass. Years later, you're still skimming them from the surface.

Perlite contains urea formaldehyde. I wouldn't add it to a reef.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10190434#post10190434 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr.wilson
Perlite contains urea formaldehyde. I wouldn't add it to a reef.

Can you document that, Mr Wilson, please?
:eek2:
We did a whole thing on perlite yesterday, and I never once saw anything about urea formaldehyde, and I just did a quick google, and closest I can find is where they mix the urea formaldehyde with perlite to form resin based insulation. Perlite does not contain urea formaldehyde in its basic composition, or at least I can not find it...
 
Looking over this link that I posted yesterday does show that certain grades of perlite do have some sort of treatment: dust reduced, water repellent and bitumized/coated being the main treatments. It does not say what these treatments are, so I suppose they might contain urea formaldehyde, but a more intense google search still shows the main use of urea formaldehyde with perlite is as a mix for insulation.

I thought that link might come in handy - certain grades are more appropriate than others, and a few grades shouldn't even be considered.

On a side note, it came to me that adding perlite to Jiffy Rock would probably work just fine - perlite has excellent thermal resistance properties, so no worries about it melting during the baking process, or so I would think; perlite is used as fire resistant insulation among other things...

And as noted by Mr Wilson, I wouldn't use perlite to cast in - trying to get it all off the outside would be a royal pain and if you didn't, it would shed. I do not see a problem with it coming out of the rock over time, and I do not see much about it shedding being reported in the water garden and freshwater forums, where they have been using perlite for years. I think that isn't really a big issue - I'd still be more concerned about its "filtering capabilities" and how that might cause the rock to hold too much detritus, or the potential for it containing urea formaldehyde, or whether the aluminum content would affect anything. Mr Wilson says he thinks it (aluminum) would be safe over in the 'Reef Ceramics' thread, and no one else has posted info to the contrary, so I might try some if I can find it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, lol...
 
Urea makes me think its perlite that is spiked with fertilizer. Some of the major brand names do this....all you need to do is find perlite without additives. It is very common at garden centers.
As far as retaining junk and becoming a nutrient sink I don't see that happening unless you are forcing water through the rock....and in that case any porous rock could become a nutrient sink with or without perlite. All we are doing is creating aenerobic zones for denitritification bacteria to live....perlite seems like a good ingredient to accomplish this.
I wish Randy Holmes Farley was still around to help us out!

Pretty much everything I have read says its inert....so to me this says no leaching or bad chemical reactions.
I wouldn't use it to cast in either....it is for inside the rock.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10184670#post10184670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
Pretty much starts the discussion, Mr Wilson.

Neptune makes some good arguments, and like I said, lots of posts in the water garden and freshwater forums about this.

From what we have found about perlite as an aggregate, I'd say I'm skeptically optimistic about its use in MMLR. It certainly warrants some trials.

My husband is such a geek. I mentioned perlite to him to see what he might know, and the post I had read where the rock floated, and my idea for a mid-column 'island', and he loved it!
LOL
He took it one further, said "Make it a sphere shape, anchor it with monofilament so it doesn't get bashed around and cover it with Green Star Polyps - we could have a 'Death Star!'"
*sigh*
:rolleyes:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10191972#post10191972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr.wilson
I guess I missed the post where someone stated the purpose of adding perlite.

These were my thoughts behind it:

"As far as perlite is concerned it is porous and has tons of little voids....more surface area for bacteria to breakdown nitrates perhaps? Being light was not the main reason for consideration but a pleasant bonus. It would act as a very cheap aggregate and filler, method to create pores in the rock, its white, light, and inert. All of these are good reasons to use it I think."

Here is a microscope image of the pores/cells:
http://s.martinez.free.fr/V2/agro/0240-21-perlite01.jpg
 
Mr Wilson, isn't that basically saying that given perlites' absorption of water or its water content (38%), fluorides added by municipal water supplies can be "filtered" out and "stored" in the perlite?

Are flourides an issue in reefs?
 
I thought this whole thread was using rock salt because it melts away and leaves not only surface area for bacteria, but also holes and nooks and crannies for critters and bugs and 'pods. Perlite wouldn't have this advantage.

Agreed, perlite has beneficial surface area and absorption properties, but if the perlite on the surface never dissolves, the perlite inside the rock wouldn't get sufficient contact with the water, and anyting below the surface is just a lightweight additive. The surface area and absorbtion benefits would only be on the surface-facing pieces of perlite, my best guess.
 
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