michaelalan
New member
Mr Wilson,
Do you know the link to the greehouse coraline algea grower thread?
I want to check that out.
Do you know the link to the greehouse coraline algea grower thread?
I want to check that out.
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter JohnL
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mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I'm not sure which one you mean. Redox, treeman, raaden, and rick rottet ar a few of the greenhouse owners that post here.
Here are some interesting threads about greenhouse projects.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465933
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441022&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=246772&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1049850
michaelalan
New member
Thanks for the quick response. The thread I was thinking about was about someone placing their lr in a walmart kiddie pool out side and growing massive amounts of coralline algae on them.
Know of that thread?
Know of that thread?
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
No I don't know the thread.
I would imagine it's a short term success story, as evaporation, temp fluctuations and excessive amounts of UV would be issues.
A blue poly shade will correct the colour temperature and protect against over-heating, but you would require an additional layer of polyethylene for UV protection.
I've heard a few short term success stories of growers going commando, but disaster always strikes in the end. If you were to use a Walmart kiddie pool, you should line it with plastic vapor barrier. The plastic in those pools have fungicidal agents added.
This guy has a nice low-budget set-up. I think geography plays a big part. You need a moderate climate.
http://www.garretts-acropolis.com/
There's another thread floating around about a guy in Spain? with an outdoor reef pool.
Insane Reefer
New member
The best/cheapest way I've heard of growing outside has been a cattle trough and blue tarp. Place the trough where it gets morning light. Leave a bit of space between the tarp and the top of the trough for air movement. Add a large pump and a few seed pieces.
Coraline can grow in temps as low as 55°F, so a water trough heater (or two) can be used in the winter to keep it from getting too cold. You can also use a thermal wrap.
Coraline can grow in temps as low as 55°F, so a water trough heater (or two) can be used in the winter to keep it from getting too cold. You can also use a thermal wrap.
Great bunch of info here let me see if I can add something of interest or at least get someone's creative juices flowing.
IR Posted
Seems like alot of work here are three suggestions any of which might work or not
1) Buy a turkey fryer and then but a 55 gallon galvanized trash can with a semi-loose fitting lid. Put about 10-15 gallons of water in it on top of the turkey fryer. Add some bricks or cynder blocks and round BBQ racks for shelves with your MMLR on them. Get them just out of the water and fire it up place lid back on top. Within an hour it should be producing a good deal of steam with a 5lb propane bottle you can run it for a long time. I do something similar when butchering chickens/turkeys but I only heat to 150f.
2)Buy a gas or electric smoker. I have a Great Outdoors Smokey Mountain Gas Smoker has 3 ss grids about 16" x 12" with about 8" rack space between them. I've used mine on 6 occasions for about 8hrs a shot and have not used up half a bottle of propane yet. Temps can be set from low 200f to 400f by setting on low, medium or high setting.
3)(MOST LABOR INTENSIVE)Build a cynder block and brick kiln (easiest way to do large quantities though) place in metal racks to hold the MMLR (rebar, expanded metal or BBQ grids come to mind) Use propane and a pear-burner or other gas burner assembly to provide the heat. Above the heat source place a grid or rack and place lava rock, fire brick, non-exploding stone or BBQ bricks to heat. Set up a drip pipe to supply small quantities of water to produce steam.(aka sauna)
FWIW HTH
Robert
IR Posted
Seems like alot of work here are three suggestions any of which might work or not
1) Buy a turkey fryer and then but a 55 gallon galvanized trash can with a semi-loose fitting lid. Put about 10-15 gallons of water in it on top of the turkey fryer. Add some bricks or cynder blocks and round BBQ racks for shelves with your MMLR on them. Get them just out of the water and fire it up place lid back on top. Within an hour it should be producing a good deal of steam with a 5lb propane bottle you can run it for a long time. I do something similar when butchering chickens/turkeys but I only heat to 150f.
2)Buy a gas or electric smoker. I have a Great Outdoors Smokey Mountain Gas Smoker has 3 ss grids about 16" x 12" with about 8" rack space between them. I've used mine on 6 occasions for about 8hrs a shot and have not used up half a bottle of propane yet. Temps can be set from low 200f to 400f by setting on low, medium or high setting.
3)(MOST LABOR INTENSIVE)Build a cynder block and brick kiln (easiest way to do large quantities though) place in metal racks to hold the MMLR (rebar, expanded metal or BBQ grids come to mind) Use propane and a pear-burner or other gas burner assembly to provide the heat. Above the heat source place a grid or rack and place lava rock, fire brick, non-exploding stone or BBQ bricks to heat. Set up a drip pipe to supply small quantities of water to produce steam.(aka sauna)
FWIW HTH
Robert
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
While all of these ideas are fun projects for some, I think it's most efficient to just throw the rocks on a skid and wait a month for nature to take its' course. The rock will be more than strong enough without a kiln.
The labor and operational costs of baking rocks will exceeded the cost of polymer-modified cement mixes that offer other benefits as well as early PH stability. For those on a tight budget, time is the best tool.
I don't want to take the wind out of anyones sails, but I think all this talk about baking rocks may confuse newbies. Go ahead with your inventions, but add some kind of caveat for the members that are only making rock to save money.
The labor and operational costs of baking rocks will exceeded the cost of polymer-modified cement mixes that offer other benefits as well as early PH stability. For those on a tight budget, time is the best tool.
I don't want to take the wind out of anyones sails, but I think all this talk about baking rocks may confuse newbies. Go ahead with your inventions, but add some kind of caveat for the members that are only making rock to save money.
Insane Reefer
New member
Ah, but that is why I'm experimenting with other ways - Time.
When you ask most people what they dislike most about MMLR, they tell you time and again that it is the amount of time and effort involved with traditional methods - and finding someplace to let it just sit is another complaint.
Since I put the caveat in the "Super Long Post", that the write-up is not for the Jiffy Rock method (and mentioning nothing else about it in the write-up), I think the confusion remains only for a few individuals who can't be bothered to read past the last page or so of the thread. I certainly get enough PM's for requests on the method - I'm not seeing any confusion there, lol.
When you ask most people what they dislike most about MMLR, they tell you time and again that it is the amount of time and effort involved with traditional methods - and finding someplace to let it just sit is another complaint.
Since I put the caveat in the "Super Long Post", that the write-up is not for the Jiffy Rock method (and mentioning nothing else about it in the write-up), I think the confusion remains only for a few individuals who can't be bothered to read past the last page or so of the thread. I certainly get enough PM's for requests on the method - I'm not seeing any confusion there, lol.
On my last rock, a great big one, multi pour, I just let it sit for a week or so covered. Then I set it out on the patio for a couple of weeks, in the sun. I then moved it to my big tub for a soak. I got nearly none of the scum that you get when they go in the soak early. After 2 weeks in the tub I got algae on the rock. I just let my rocks cure in the air and do soaks to just release salt. The sun does a wonderful job and saves a lot of water changes.
Insane Reefer
New member
Awesome Ebe!
I'm finding that air kuring for 3-4 weeks works pretty much as well as water kuring, and the stuff that leeches out in the early days is something, really that shouldn't, and doesn't if allowed to cure as it is meant to do.
At this point, I'm about to change the kuring section on the "Super Long Post" to reflect this.
I'd like to find the persons originally responsible for the "Water Kure" and introduce them to my size 9 boot.
It's just this sort of thing, that is accepted as fact, that got me going on rock experiments. It will be fun to see what other MMLR myths we can bust
I'm finding that air kuring for 3-4 weeks works pretty much as well as water kuring, and the stuff that leeches out in the early days is something, really that shouldn't, and doesn't if allowed to cure as it is meant to do.
At this point, I'm about to change the kuring section on the "Super Long Post" to reflect this.
I'd like to find the persons originally responsible for the "Water Kure" and introduce them to my size 9 boot.
It's just this sort of thing, that is accepted as fact, that got me going on rock experiments. It will be fun to see what other MMLR myths we can bust
Salty Brother
New member
ok finally some pics
i think i rushed the water cure fase because i put them in after only like 2 days of sitting outside. oh well, im soon to make another batch, but here the first one
heres my curing tank
and some of the rocks
So what do you think of the rock? am i on the right way to success
?
i think i rushed the water cure fase because i put them in after only like 2 days of sitting outside. oh well, im soon to make another batch, but here the first one
heres my curing tank
and some of the rocks
So what do you think of the rock? am i on the right way to success
?
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Insane Reefer
New member
They look pretty good to me
You might think about making your next slurry just a tad drier, which will give more holes in-between the aggregates and a bit more porosity.
But those should certainly work, and look great too.
Good Job!
You might think about making your next slurry just a tad drier, which will give more holes in-between the aggregates and a bit more porosity.
But those should certainly work, and look great too.
Good Job!
Salty Brother
New member
ok thanks, and i will. and what do you think is the expected curing time on these? thanks
Mr. Wilson I agree with you whole-heartedly I was just giving a few suggestions to IR
Personally when I do start making some MMLR I will use a faster setting cement mix probably with some colorant in it (koolaid comes to mind) and let it cure under clear 8-mil poly sheeting for a couple weeks adding misted water as needed then do the water bath trick till the PH goes down. This will yield a stronger mix than messing around adding calcium or baking the rock Calcium is great if you are trying to get a project done and strength isn't the big issue, add to much and your concrete falls apart much quicker. Baking also weakens concrete unless the mix is designed for it as the concrete pipe example is.
Just so you know I have more than 25 years experience dealing with concrete and mixes, most of it in heavy highway type construction and most of that time forming, pouring, finishing and curing the concrete. I have spent the last 5 years dealing with mix designs and testing of concrete. I am nothing like an expert in the field but I know more than the average bear on the subject. As far as MMLR goes I am a Noob and will gladly defer judgement on this particular subject until I can get some hands on experience.
Anyone tried using Great Stuff foam and some of the LR cement mixed products to make backdrops? IR might be the way to go for your floating MMLR idea.
Again FWIW
Insane Reefer
New member
To save you time and frustration, I will tell you what I've learned about coloring DIY rock...
Kool-aid just doesn't work - purple, green and pink all come out looking sort of dull grey, and that is in white cement, using way more then you would think would be needed.
Rit-Dye works slightly better then the Kool-aid, but again, several packages were needed to even start getting a good color.
Plaid "Make-It Mosaics" Colorant has been the best I have worked with, but a lot is needed to get strong colors. It is classified as "Non-toxic". I think something like one 1oz bottle per 30lbs of finished rock weight is what it took to get what I wanted.
And finally, after all my efforts to get good color, I find that as the cure and kure complete, and carbonation starts to occur, the colors are washed out and faded to a pale semblance of the original dry rocks color, and while wetting the rock darkens the color, it is still a pale pastel shade. Simply put, not worth the effort or money.
What I find does work well, is to make what amounts to cement paste, colored darker than what you want, "painted" onto the rock after salt release if you used salt, if not, about a week into curing/kuring, and allow the rock to dry first. I mix a few tablespoons of cement with the Plaid Colorant, and add water until it is a consistency close to thick latex paint. Paint it on, give it a week or so to cure, and finish the rock how you planned.
HTH
And I am considering your proposed idea's for a "sauna" effect - I felt they deserved a better then "off the cuff" answer.
They are each good idea's, and I see no flaw in them, except for the smoker idea - way too expensive and I think the BBQ idea is something that is never going to work as well as the oven in terms of keeping moisture in. I'd prefer electric elements to propane for safety issues.
The fryer/can is a very interesting idea with a lot of merit, esp for others who want to do quick cured rock, and really, almost everyone should know someone they could possibly borrow a fry from. My concern would be the weight of the rock on top of the fryer, and any possible damage that might occur to the fryer by being used this way (for those who think they can borrow - would suck to have to replace it because it got messed up.)
The brick/block kiln is a more labor intensive version of what I had outlined, where you replaced the barrel with bricks/blocks - I think cutting a door and adding a pair of hinges and adding a strip of stove sealing wick will be simpler and less, well, labor intensive, lol. I'm a lazy beast, and a cutting torch is easier to lift then cement blocks. Not to mention trying to seal that block kiln - I'd think you'd need to build it right (mortar, etc) to prevent all the steam from getting loose.
All in all, for what I want to do, I still think the barrel sauna is the best bet so far. Elements can be gotten in electric hot plates or burners, cheap, at garage sales, shouldn't take more then half an hour or so to cut the door and seal the seams, and barrels can be gotten free if you know where to look.
I do think the fryer idea is a good one for the rest of the community that is just looking to do a few batches for personal use.
So who has a fryer?
customcolor
New member
kinda like this? if so check out how i did it in my build form. click my red house i got some good close ups too.<BR>
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10455684#post10455684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badfish03
Mr. Wilson I agree with you whole-heartedly I was just giving a few suggestions to IR
Personally when I do start making some MMLR I will use a faster setting cement mix probably with some colorant in it (koolaid comes to mind) and let it cure under clear 8-mil poly sheeting for a couple weeks adding misted water as needed then do the water bath trick till the PH goes down. This will yield a stronger mix than messing around adding calcium or baking the rock Calcium is great if you are trying to get a project done and strength isn't the big issue, add to much and your concrete falls apart much quicker. Baking also weakens concrete unless the mix is designed for it as the concrete pipe example is.
Just so you know I have more than 25 years experience dealing with concrete and mixes, most of it in heavy highway type construction and most of that time forming, pouring, finishing and curing the concrete. I have spent the last 5 years dealing with mix designs and testing of concrete. I am nothing like an expert in the field but I know more than the average bear on the subject. As far as MMLR goes I am a Noob and will gladly defer judgement on this particular subject until I can get some hands on experience.
Anyone tried using Great Stuff foam and some of the LR cement mixed products to make backdrops? IR might be the way to go for your floating MMLR idea.
Again FWIW
Don't worry, I wasn't pointing a finger at you, or anyone else in particular. You made some good suggestions.
Everyone loves a challenge. I had my own harebrained suggestion of using a metal shed and a propane burner to generate heat, Co2, and moisture. Needless to say, this contraption would cost more than live rock and take up enough space to store skids of rock.
As far as experience goes, I haven't made a single rock either. I'm following this thread to learn from others mistakes.
Keep those ideas coming.
Insane Reefer
New member
Oh, that looks very cool
It looks whiter than the stuff I've seen, or is that an illusion?
OT: Have you heard? Dark Crystal 2...
It looks whiter than the stuff I've seen, or is that an illusion?
OT: Have you heard? Dark Crystal 2...
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
This guy used a colourant.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=618586&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=618586&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
Insane Reefer
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5221156#post5221156 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dugg
I sprayed it down with a water and RIT dye mixture for the finall dry time. The rocks were splattered with liquid RIT dye when they were made.
Interesting application - I'll admit I would have never thought of that. I can't see that the dye made much difference but it is hard to tell. The later pictures showing nice purple were taken almost a year after the tank was cast - the images are too small to tell if it is coralline or dyed rock.
Thanks for the link, Mr Wilson
Just because this didn't work doesn't mean that other applications (possibly dry dye?) won't...
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