Altpers0na
ARS Caesar
can we get the jiffy rock formula please?
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
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Insane Reefer
New member
Was Santa good to everyone this year? I get to make a $200 order from Sealife Inc (unless someone knows a good reason not to order from them that is?), and finally stock my 'Cube!
I'm so excited!
Anyway...
Excellent, work Jeff! Getting the aquaculture off the ground too - awesome
Thanks for sharing the pics - the more pics people see, I think it becomes more likely someone might be willing to try it on their own
Altersona, Welcome to the thread! :wave:
If you will send me a email address via PM, I will gladly get that for you - it is currently in Word Doc format, and longer then will fit into a PM, so shoot me an addy I can send that to, ok?
I'm so excited!
Anyway...
Excellent, work Jeff! Getting the aquaculture off the ground too - awesome
Thanks for sharing the pics - the more pics people see, I think it becomes more likely someone might be willing to try it on their own
Altersona, Welcome to the thread! :wave:
If you will send me a email address via PM, I will gladly get that for you - it is currently in Word Doc format, and longer then will fit into a PM, so shoot me an addy I can send that to, ok?
Insane Reefer
New member
Ok, I've had 7 requests this morning for the Jiffy Rock Method, so I'm just going to post it here.
Keep in mind that while it does work, and does produce rock that can be used in 9 days, the high heat involved might cause problems within the cement at any point. This is also a potential problem with the "Salt Rock" that the thread was started on - the risk potential is about equal for either type of rock. So far, my test pieces that have been in salt water for 6 months show no problems, but I feel it is important to provide a cautionary note - neither Jiffy nor Salt Rocks have been in use long enough to claim that they are completely 100% going to hold up for years and years to come. If you want more info on potential problems, try googling "chloride attack", a potential problem with the Salt Rocks. Most of which that is written pertains to the construction industry and how it effects reinforced steel, but it also messes with the cement itself, so look for that, also look for "Delayed Ettringite Formation", which is the main worry for the Jiffy Rock method
Anyway, I'm working on a refined method that will remove the high heat issue and would require an "Igloo" type cooler (or deep freezer) and a pressure cooker like is used for canning food. When that is ready to disclose, I will do so in full.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask - I will try to answer to the best of my ability
Without any further ado...
Jiffy Rock Method For DIY Rock
I am not responsible for injuries or damages incurred by using this process! This is a DIY project, and could be dangerous if done stupidly!
Keep in mind that this has only been tested with the "Ol' Skool +" and Perlcrete type rock. I’ve made one test batch of the salt and sand only rock, and the salt is very difficult to release â€"œ try this method with salt and sand only rock only if you cast them really “fluffyâ€Â, with lots of holes.
Anyway.
Make a batch of rock - in damp sand for preference.
After 18-36 hours (the sooner, the better the results seem to be), carefully remove your rocks, brush them off and then get ready to bake them in a 450°F oven. They will still be punky, or sort of soft - that is exactly what we want - green rock.
To prep the oven, remove all fancy pans, etc. Cover racks with foil. Line bottom of oven with more foil. Fill a shallow metal cake pan (use an old (or cheap) pan) with hot water, and place as low as you can in the oven. I find that if I remove one rack completely, I can place the pan on the oven floor, place a rack above it and have lots of room for the rock.
Prep kitchen for acrid fumes. These fumes are not deadly, just fairly unpleasant. A fan venting in the window works great. Sheet over the kitchen door prevents most smell from migrating too much. Doing this at night keeps the heat down in the house.
Now place rocks inside - they can touch, or even be piled â€"œ just don’t touch the active heating element.
Turn oven on to 450°F. Bake for 4-6 hours. This needs to be a really moist heat, so halfway though, check the water level and add more hot water if needed.
Allow to cool for 1 hour, in the oven, with the door closed. While this is happening, prep water for salt release. The water needs to be hot. Hook a hose to your laundry hookup, boil it, or use your imagination - but the water needs to be hot.
Now, wearing gloves (I use chemical gloves) and eye protection, take the rock out of the oven (be careful, it will still be hot rock), and plunge it into your Hot release water. Plunge it in and out of the water several times to really get the water inside it. You may notice your water starting to simmer - this is great - it will help remove all the salt and crud quicker. Do all pieces, leave them in there and then allow water to cool. Drain. Again, using hot water, refill and allow to cool. Do this one more time.
If using a salt recipe, you will need to release the salt completely before moving on to the next step - this could take you a day or more to complete - figure 6-8 hours between refills, (heavy, dense pieces, or sand/salt only rocks will definitely take longer to be ready). Alternatively, you can just simmer the rock â€"œ it will require at least 12 hours this way, but finishes it quickly. Water will need to be changed in a simmer release, same as without simmering, but the time frame is greatly reduced. Simmer an hour or three, then change water.
When you think the salt is out, rinse the rock with clean water, pick-up a piece, allow the water to drain from it and catch the last drop or two from the bottom side on the tip of your finger â€"œ now taste it. Is it salty like chips? Or does it taste like mineral water?
After salt has been released, now we will soak in vinegar. I'm still working on ratios, so you can feel free to experiment at this stage. I'm going to recommend 1/2 gallon of vinegar to 4 gallons of water, which seems to work well. Look for the highest % you can on the vinegar - it comes in 4%-10% at the store. I'm looking into citric acid as well, so this step may change in the future. You just need enough liquid to cover the rocks and allow about 4" clearance over the top of the highest rock.
Allow rock to soak, for 3 days. Use a powerhead or pump to circulate the solution, if possible.
------------------------------------------------
At this point, the rock is as low as it will get with this method â€"œ all the rest of this follow stuff is testing. Make a note of how old your rock is at this point. Isn’t this cool? I’ve had rocks a month old that didn’t have a pH this low yet…
If you are not a Lab Monkey, Start a normal water kure now. Should take a week and a few water changes.
------------------------------------------------
Baking Tips and Observations
These are some tips and observations I've made over the last several bakes.
1. Use foil to cover the bottom of your stove as well as each rack you leave in. Efflorescence will be pulled out of the rock and form tiny puddles where your rock touches the foil. Your rock will be glued to the foil at these points, so when you pull it out, sand may go everywhere if you are not careful. Foil on the oven floor will prevent having to clean the stove so much afterward, and make the head of your kitchen happier with you.
2. Use a shallow metal cake/pie pan (or 2) in the oven to provide plenty of moisture. DO NOT USE GLASS OR PYREX! Half-way though the bake, check the pan to make sure it has water left in it. A dry bake will ruin the rock, moisture is the key.
3. Some stoves have a vent under one of the back burners. If you can, cover this vent with a metal cup or bit of foil. You may have to loosen/remove the burner to do this, but this will prevent the loss of too much moisture.
4. Turn off the houses' internal fans, etc. You want the fumes to remain confined to the kitchen. The fumes are nasty, mostly just the smell is bad, and not harmful as long as you don't go hang out in them. Use a fan in the kitchen window, and open the windows in other parts of the house to form a “draw thoughâ€Â. This will help with fumes.
5. When bake cycle is done, just turn off the stove and leave the rock lone for an hour. While the rock is hot, you will be in the greatest danger you will face - plunging your rocks. I think this exponentially speeds up salt release (if used), especially when really hot water is used and releases a lot of the crud. If the water you use is too cool, and the rocks too hot, they could explode, so be careful, and wear gloves and goggles for this step!
6. I will recommend to folks making the salt/cement or salt/cement/sand recipes to actually simmer the water they use for release, and if possible simmer the rocks themselves. I had a lot of trouble releasing the salt from these (though I don't make this recipe often, so that may be part of it), and if you are at the stove anyway, this will make it go faster. If you simmer the rocks, just make sure to use a pot that isn't going to be missed - you will more than likely not want to use it for food after this. Salvation Army or GoodWill might be places to find cheap stockpots for this.
Keep in mind that while it does work, and does produce rock that can be used in 9 days, the high heat involved might cause problems within the cement at any point. This is also a potential problem with the "Salt Rock" that the thread was started on - the risk potential is about equal for either type of rock. So far, my test pieces that have been in salt water for 6 months show no problems, but I feel it is important to provide a cautionary note - neither Jiffy nor Salt Rocks have been in use long enough to claim that they are completely 100% going to hold up for years and years to come. If you want more info on potential problems, try googling "chloride attack", a potential problem with the Salt Rocks. Most of which that is written pertains to the construction industry and how it effects reinforced steel, but it also messes with the cement itself, so look for that, also look for "Delayed Ettringite Formation", which is the main worry for the Jiffy Rock method
Anyway, I'm working on a refined method that will remove the high heat issue and would require an "Igloo" type cooler (or deep freezer) and a pressure cooker like is used for canning food. When that is ready to disclose, I will do so in full.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask - I will try to answer to the best of my ability
Without any further ado...
Jiffy Rock Method For DIY Rock
I am not responsible for injuries or damages incurred by using this process! This is a DIY project, and could be dangerous if done stupidly!
Keep in mind that this has only been tested with the "Ol' Skool +" and Perlcrete type rock. I’ve made one test batch of the salt and sand only rock, and the salt is very difficult to release â€"œ try this method with salt and sand only rock only if you cast them really “fluffyâ€Â, with lots of holes.
Anyway.
Make a batch of rock - in damp sand for preference.
After 18-36 hours (the sooner, the better the results seem to be), carefully remove your rocks, brush them off and then get ready to bake them in a 450°F oven. They will still be punky, or sort of soft - that is exactly what we want - green rock.
To prep the oven, remove all fancy pans, etc. Cover racks with foil. Line bottom of oven with more foil. Fill a shallow metal cake pan (use an old (or cheap) pan) with hot water, and place as low as you can in the oven. I find that if I remove one rack completely, I can place the pan on the oven floor, place a rack above it and have lots of room for the rock.
Prep kitchen for acrid fumes. These fumes are not deadly, just fairly unpleasant. A fan venting in the window works great. Sheet over the kitchen door prevents most smell from migrating too much. Doing this at night keeps the heat down in the house.
Now place rocks inside - they can touch, or even be piled â€"œ just don’t touch the active heating element.
Turn oven on to 450°F. Bake for 4-6 hours. This needs to be a really moist heat, so halfway though, check the water level and add more hot water if needed.
Allow to cool for 1 hour, in the oven, with the door closed. While this is happening, prep water for salt release. The water needs to be hot. Hook a hose to your laundry hookup, boil it, or use your imagination - but the water needs to be hot.
Now, wearing gloves (I use chemical gloves) and eye protection, take the rock out of the oven (be careful, it will still be hot rock), and plunge it into your Hot release water. Plunge it in and out of the water several times to really get the water inside it. You may notice your water starting to simmer - this is great - it will help remove all the salt and crud quicker. Do all pieces, leave them in there and then allow water to cool. Drain. Again, using hot water, refill and allow to cool. Do this one more time.
If using a salt recipe, you will need to release the salt completely before moving on to the next step - this could take you a day or more to complete - figure 6-8 hours between refills, (heavy, dense pieces, or sand/salt only rocks will definitely take longer to be ready). Alternatively, you can just simmer the rock â€"œ it will require at least 12 hours this way, but finishes it quickly. Water will need to be changed in a simmer release, same as without simmering, but the time frame is greatly reduced. Simmer an hour or three, then change water.
When you think the salt is out, rinse the rock with clean water, pick-up a piece, allow the water to drain from it and catch the last drop or two from the bottom side on the tip of your finger â€"œ now taste it. Is it salty like chips? Or does it taste like mineral water?
After salt has been released, now we will soak in vinegar. I'm still working on ratios, so you can feel free to experiment at this stage. I'm going to recommend 1/2 gallon of vinegar to 4 gallons of water, which seems to work well. Look for the highest % you can on the vinegar - it comes in 4%-10% at the store. I'm looking into citric acid as well, so this step may change in the future. You just need enough liquid to cover the rocks and allow about 4" clearance over the top of the highest rock.
Allow rock to soak, for 3 days. Use a powerhead or pump to circulate the solution, if possible.
------------------------------------------------
At this point, the rock is as low as it will get with this method â€"œ all the rest of this follow stuff is testing. Make a note of how old your rock is at this point. Isn’t this cool? I’ve had rocks a month old that didn’t have a pH this low yet…
If you are not a Lab Monkey, Start a normal water kure now. Should take a week and a few water changes.
------------------------------------------------
Baking Tips and Observations
These are some tips and observations I've made over the last several bakes.
1. Use foil to cover the bottom of your stove as well as each rack you leave in. Efflorescence will be pulled out of the rock and form tiny puddles where your rock touches the foil. Your rock will be glued to the foil at these points, so when you pull it out, sand may go everywhere if you are not careful. Foil on the oven floor will prevent having to clean the stove so much afterward, and make the head of your kitchen happier with you.
2. Use a shallow metal cake/pie pan (or 2) in the oven to provide plenty of moisture. DO NOT USE GLASS OR PYREX! Half-way though the bake, check the pan to make sure it has water left in it. A dry bake will ruin the rock, moisture is the key.
3. Some stoves have a vent under one of the back burners. If you can, cover this vent with a metal cup or bit of foil. You may have to loosen/remove the burner to do this, but this will prevent the loss of too much moisture.
4. Turn off the houses' internal fans, etc. You want the fumes to remain confined to the kitchen. The fumes are nasty, mostly just the smell is bad, and not harmful as long as you don't go hang out in them. Use a fan in the kitchen window, and open the windows in other parts of the house to form a “draw thoughâ€Â. This will help with fumes.
5. When bake cycle is done, just turn off the stove and leave the rock lone for an hour. While the rock is hot, you will be in the greatest danger you will face - plunging your rocks. I think this exponentially speeds up salt release (if used), especially when really hot water is used and releases a lot of the crud. If the water you use is too cool, and the rocks too hot, they could explode, so be careful, and wear gloves and goggles for this step!
6. I will recommend to folks making the salt/cement or salt/cement/sand recipes to actually simmer the water they use for release, and if possible simmer the rocks themselves. I had a lot of trouble releasing the salt from these (though I don't make this recipe often, so that may be part of it), and if you are at the stove anyway, this will make it go faster. If you simmer the rocks, just make sure to use a pot that isn't going to be missed - you will more than likely not want to use it for food after this. Salvation Army or GoodWill might be places to find cheap stockpots for this.
Insane Reefer
New member
And let me take a minute to thank my "Lab Monkeys". Since I only have emails, and real names, I won't list you all, but I wanted it publicly known that I appreciate the efforts you went to for a DIY Rock experiment. Without your efforts, I'd still be doing tests, or might have even given up on it.
These guys made a lot of test rock and did a great job on reporting back their results - of which all but one where successful. It was their willingness to try something new that helped keep the spark alive
So thanks guys - you all rock.
These guys made a lot of test rock and did a great job on reporting back their results - of which all but one where successful. It was their willingness to try something new that helped keep the spark alive
So thanks guys - you all rock.
Altpers0na
ARS Caesar
thanks for posting the jiffy..
its a bit more complex than i had wished.. not hard.. but doubt the mrs is gonna let me...
will have to get my own oven...
its a bit more complex than i had wished.. not hard.. but doubt the mrs is gonna let me...
will have to get my own oven...
Insane Reefer
New member
Np, Altpersona
It does sort of sound complicated, but really, it is almost as simple as the traditional method, and a lot, lot quicker, which can be a point on the up side as many folks don't have the ready space to make, cure and kure rock the traditional way...
Tell the missus that the moisture in the oven will loosen any grime there might be, and offer to clean it out when done. It is almost as good as oven cleaner, without the really nasty fumes associated with chemical oven cleaners. I'm pretty sure I'd let my hubby use my oven for pretty much anything he wanted, if he offered to clean it afterward
It does sort of sound complicated, but really, it is almost as simple as the traditional method, and a lot, lot quicker, which can be a point on the up side as many folks don't have the ready space to make, cure and kure rock the traditional way...
Tell the missus that the moisture in the oven will loosen any grime there might be, and offer to clean it out when done. It is almost as good as oven cleaner, without the really nasty fumes associated with chemical oven cleaners. I'm pretty sure I'd let my hubby use my oven for pretty much anything he wanted, if he offered to clean it afterward
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
I wish I had a large pressure cooker layin around. I believe that would work better than the oven. A good sized one can be found for less than the price of a good skimmer. I wonder how much rock can fit in a 23qt found on amazon
Rhodophyta
New member
What about resin rock? No oven, or extra steps. Inert as soon as the resin dries. Subtitute a smaller amount of epoxy resin for the portland cement. Line the work area or mold if you use one with wax paper. Resin rock can be made much thinner than regular aragocrete because it has more strength.
Insane Reefer
New member
Good idea, but one needs to make sure what sort of resin (polymer) they choose - many (if not all) polymers render the cement fairly impermeable, so it wouldn't be so good for filtration....
I'd think that you could do some interesting lacy things for effect though.
I'd think that you could do some interesting lacy things for effect though.
Insane Reefer
New member
Yes, it would work better then the oven (though if you can only do a couple of pieces in the cooker, energy consumption would be an issue - oven is bigger than a cooker), but the idea of feeding the steam from a pressure cooker to a "sauna" is all about avoiding the heat completely. From what I've been reading, cement/concrete, when curing, shouldn't ever go above something like 165-175°F, which is cooler then boiling water - I'd think that putting rock directly in a pressure cooker would still have the same deleterious effects as baking could have, unless one were very careful with the temperature of the water.
2004jeepoutlander
New member
your making m ymind think REAL @#%&&$ hard
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
Maybe its time to break out the monkeys again. It would be cool to find out what would be a good time frame for a pressure cook would be. I have a really small cooker I'll have to bust that out & see about settin aside some rocks outta my next batch. What would be a good timeframe to start with? The jiffy rox time frame is 4-6 hrs w/pressure @ H20bp I would expect considerably less time. What would be the low ball estimate? It would be cool to grab several batches and try different times (40mins -2 hrs in some time interval test results by curing batches in separate 5gal buckets)
Insane Reefer
New member
LOL! Jeff 
I have to ask; what is "H20bp", Rusty?
I've been pricing pressure cookers for the sauna. I've found this to be the best price so far:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=931856
It is large enough for my purpose, but it isn't big enough to do more then a small rock if used like you are thinking.
I don't see why your idea wouldn't work; just make sure you use the trivet and keep the rock above the water I'd think.
I'd recommend those interested in doing the steam curing to read: http://www.cement.ca/cement.nsf/376...54453b27d4742406852568aa005cac55?OpenDocument.
This image shows a total of 18 hours (for atmospheric steaming) - part of which is the time that the rock would sit in the mold, hardening, the rest in the steam chamber. We generally have to leave our rock alone for a minimum of 12 hours or risk breakage. Mostly I leave mine in the mold for 16-18 hours, and on average do a 5 hour "steam". It doesn't seem like the time frame will change much with the revised JRM (Jiffy Rock Method), but I will need to "ramp" the temps up and back down properly, which I didn't know before doing more in-depth investigation.
Pressure steaming is something I have no experience at, so all I can do is quote at you. Since I've never actually looked at a pressure cooker, I'm not positive about things like psi, etc. I'll tell you what I can though.
"Low pressure steam curing is curing with steam at pressures less than 150 psi (1MPa). Pieces are placed in a chamber or kiln where steam is injected through perforated pipes for about 8 to 10 hours. Typically the steam is produced in a boiler which requires periodic blowdown."
"The autoclave or high pressure steam curing is accomplished when high pressure steam is injected at pressure. The process uses temperatures of 275° to 375°F and pressures of up to 170 psi (1.17MPa). Steam is injected for up to eight hours. "
This should be enough to get you at least pointed in the right direction. I'd use google and see what you can come up with too.
I have to ask; what is "H20bp", Rusty?
I've been pricing pressure cookers for the sauna. I've found this to be the best price so far:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=931856
It is large enough for my purpose, but it isn't big enough to do more then a small rock if used like you are thinking.
I don't see why your idea wouldn't work; just make sure you use the trivet and keep the rock above the water I'd think.
I'd recommend those interested in doing the steam curing to read: http://www.cement.ca/cement.nsf/376...54453b27d4742406852568aa005cac55?OpenDocument.
This image shows a total of 18 hours (for atmospheric steaming) - part of which is the time that the rock would sit in the mold, hardening, the rest in the steam chamber. We generally have to leave our rock alone for a minimum of 12 hours or risk breakage. Mostly I leave mine in the mold for 16-18 hours, and on average do a 5 hour "steam". It doesn't seem like the time frame will change much with the revised JRM (Jiffy Rock Method), but I will need to "ramp" the temps up and back down properly, which I didn't know before doing more in-depth investigation.
Pressure steaming is something I have no experience at, so all I can do is quote at you. Since I've never actually looked at a pressure cooker, I'm not positive about things like psi, etc. I'll tell you what I can though.
"Low pressure steam curing is curing with steam at pressures less than 150 psi (1MPa). Pieces are placed in a chamber or kiln where steam is injected through perforated pipes for about 8 to 10 hours. Typically the steam is produced in a boiler which requires periodic blowdown."
"The autoclave or high pressure steam curing is accomplished when high pressure steam is injected at pressure. The process uses temperatures of 275° to 375°F and pressures of up to 170 psi (1.17MPa). Steam is injected for up to eight hours. "
This should be enough to get you at least pointed in the right direction. I'd use google and see what you can come up with too.
Last edited:
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
H20bp is just a lazy way of saying the boiling point of water
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
From what you've posted (thanks btw!) it appears that we are using a atmospheric steam curing for the jiffy rocks.
I think I'm going to have to play with the regular jiffy rock to see 1st hand the strength. My 1st two batches (1:.5:2.5 cement sand salt) got the 28 day air cure after the salt release and before the soak . Batch1 ,the cow poo batch, was too wet and overmixed and the thinner pieces crumbled and broke up into smaller chunks and are breakable by hand. I still ended up with useable rock. Batch2 was mixed a bit dryer, though still probably a tad too wet, and produced rocks you could stand on that yeilded a lot less flake off. If 80% of the strength of batch2 can be attained w/pressure cooking think it would be good enough for our uses.
IMO the air cure is way more forgiving as well as easier. After playing around w/this for a while to satisfy my monkey curiosity I think its likely that I'll only use the pressure cooking ( or any cooking for that matter) for frag plugs.
I think I'm going to have to play with the regular jiffy rock to see 1st hand the strength. My 1st two batches (1:.5:2.5 cement sand salt) got the 28 day air cure after the salt release and before the soak . Batch1 ,the cow poo batch, was too wet and overmixed and the thinner pieces crumbled and broke up into smaller chunks and are breakable by hand. I still ended up with useable rock. Batch2 was mixed a bit dryer, though still probably a tad too wet, and produced rocks you could stand on that yeilded a lot less flake off. If 80% of the strength of batch2 can be attained w/pressure cooking think it would be good enough for our uses.
IMO the air cure is way more forgiving as well as easier. After playing around w/this for a while to satisfy my monkey curiosity I think its likely that I'll only use the pressure cooking ( or any cooking for that matter) for frag plugs.
Insane Reefer
New member
You are correct, Rusty, for the JRM, atmospheric steam is used.
Adding the PC to the equation might change it to low pressure steaming, but I'm not sure about how much pressure a PC produces.
Since my space has been limited by my husband starting to rearrange the garage, then loosing steam (no pun intended, lol!), I have only been able to cast 2 or 3 rocks at a time, which is wasteful to steam in the oven, so I've been using what amounts to a "membrane cure" - basically sealing the new rock into plastic bags and putting them in a warm place...
Works like a champ Just takes a while...
Adding the PC to the equation might change it to low pressure steaming, but I'm not sure about how much pressure a PC produces.
Since my space has been limited by my husband starting to rearrange the garage, then loosing steam (no pun intended, lol!), I have only been able to cast 2 or 3 rocks at a time, which is wasteful to steam in the oven, so I've been using what amounts to a "membrane cure" - basically sealing the new rock into plastic bags and putting them in a warm place...
Works like a champ
Just takes a while...ive been reading this thread for a wile but iam still confused a bit on makeing the rock, my plan is to make some rock now with the cooking methoed for my 75g then in the summer do it the slow way to get more stabel rocks for when i upgrade to a larger tank.
when you talk about sand in molding, mixing ect do you mean aragonite? can i just use sand blasting sand instead?
for cooking would it be better to use the sand salt cement method or is there a better mix? i like he salt cement only rock as it sounds simple but if the salt is realy hard to get out,
and when you say the "old school method" do you mean like on the garf site? or some other method?
sorry for the long post, but this is a long thread!
when you talk about sand in molding, mixing ect do you mean aragonite? can i just use sand blasting sand instead?
for cooking would it be better to use the sand salt cement method or is there a better mix? i like he salt cement only rock as it sounds simple but if the salt is realy hard to get out,
and when you say the "old school method" do you mean like on the garf site? or some other method?
sorry for the long post, but this is a long thread!
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
I'll see If I can take a stab at this one.
I really like how salt sand cement rocks turned out in previous air cured batches. I used a bit of silica sand as an aggregate and you really don't see it in the rock. For the mold I used leftover rocksalt. The surface texture doesn't look quite as natural as LR or sand molds but IMO it results in more surface area.
As for the old skool, from what I've read its pretty much just rock made without the benefit salt. (correct me if I'm wrong). HTH
Aragonite looks better and has (debatably) some buffering benefits but silica sand would also work fine.
My guess is that the cooking would work with just about any of the mixes. I'm a couple weeks from finding out just how well the salt sand cement mix cooks. I don't forsee any problems.
If you can boil the rocks its pretty easy to get the salt dissolved.
I really like how salt sand cement rocks turned out in previous air cured batches. I used a bit of silica sand as an aggregate and you really don't see it in the rock. For the mold I used leftover rocksalt. The surface texture doesn't look quite as natural as LR or sand molds but IMO it results in more surface area.
As for the old skool, from what I've read its pretty much just rock made without the benefit salt. (correct me if I'm wrong). HTH
Insane Reefer
New member
Hi Silence, Welcome to the thread! :wave:
For the most part, Rusty is correct.
Read this post, and it should answer most, if not all of your questions:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11058572#post11058572
Salt is difficult to remove from steamed rock, IME. Not impossible, but it usually takes a day or two at the least, and most times takes longer. Boiling does help remove it quicker.
I personally cast into damp sand blasting sand - it bonds to the surface in such a way that you can no longer see it - which is also the case with actual aragonite sand, but aragonite is expensive to fill boxes or totes with. Most other sands are visible and do not look nice.
I don't like casting into salt because I have a little voice in my head that screams "detritus trap", but many folks have cast their rock this way, and had great results. So far that is.
If you can wait for like two weeks, I should have the mini rock sauna up and under testing. The mini rock sauna will take into account the new stuff I've learned, and produce stable (or as stable as you are going to get when you mix porous concrete and saltwater that is) rock. I'm just trying to get my hands on a pressure cooker, and funds are tight this close to Xmas past.
Anyway, if you have questions, feel free to post - someone will get to you
Happy New Years to all!!!
:celeb1: :celeb3: :celeb2:
For the most part, Rusty is correct.
Read this post, and it should answer most, if not all of your questions:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11058572#post11058572
Salt is difficult to remove from steamed rock, IME. Not impossible, but it usually takes a day or two at the least, and most times takes longer. Boiling does help remove it quicker.
I personally cast into damp sand blasting sand - it bonds to the surface in such a way that you can no longer see it - which is also the case with actual aragonite sand, but aragonite is expensive to fill boxes or totes with. Most other sands are visible and do not look nice.
I don't like casting into salt because I have a little voice in my head that screams "detritus trap", but many folks have cast their rock this way, and had great results. So far that is.
If you can wait for like two weeks, I should have the mini rock sauna up and under testing. The mini rock sauna will take into account the new stuff I've learned, and produce stable (or as stable as you are going to get when you mix porous concrete and saltwater that is) rock. I'm just trying to get my hands on a pressure cooker, and funds are tight this close to Xmas past.
Anyway, if you have questions, feel free to post - someone will get to you
Happy New Years to all!!!
:celeb1: :celeb3: :celeb2:
Insane,
how did you wind up building that mini sauna? I remember you were trying to get some way to make steam into a box or old refrigerator. Did I miss the results of that topic?
Or is that what the pressure cooker is for?
edit: ok I just scrolled back a page and I think I found my answer.
how did you wind up building that mini sauna? I remember you were trying to get some way to make steam into a box or old refrigerator. Did I miss the results of that topic?
Or is that what the pressure cooker is for?
edit: ok I just scrolled back a page and I think I found my answer.
- Status
