SpankythePyro
New member
Ahh also where can I buy peletized perlite? A;sp how does it even aid the biofiltration/voiding? It doesn't degrade...
And has anyone tried using moisted rice?
And has anyone tried using moisted rice?
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
SpankythePyro
New member
Will do I'm just trying to find a place that provides perlite!
goldmaniac
New member
I made three separate batches in Summer 2007 without perlite. my first batch was still so pourous with air that it barely sunk.
I have not tried perlite so I can't say Good/Bad on it but i can tell you that it's not required in the recipe, so if anyone is itching to try it, you can do without.
Unfortunately the recipe I liked the most was a simple whole numbers ratio of 3 intredients like 2:1:1 or 3:2:2 but I forget it exactly, and although i've posted it once or twice on this thread, this DIY thread is TOO HUGE for me to take the time to find while at work.
My biggest challenge was to find WHITE portland cement, but i finally found 90 lb bags of it locally for about $16. I filled up a 5-gallon bucket or two of the stuff just because it was so hard to find. But it makes a big difference, in my opinion, in the look of the tank.
You can't see the difference between grey and white too well in these pictures, but the pics were taken to show the shapes of the pillars and tunnels that are easily made with MMLR:
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/mm_live_rock_sept_07/bridges.jpg" border="0" alt="">
And here's what the white cement looks like - NEW - in the tank
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/tank_side_new_MMLR_20070917_650.jpg" border="0" alt="">
I have not tried perlite so I can't say Good/Bad on it but i can tell you that it's not required in the recipe, so if anyone is itching to try it, you can do without.
Unfortunately the recipe I liked the most was a simple whole numbers ratio of 3 intredients like 2:1:1 or 3:2:2 but I forget it exactly, and although i've posted it once or twice on this thread, this DIY thread is TOO HUGE for me to take the time to find while at work.
My biggest challenge was to find WHITE portland cement, but i finally found 90 lb bags of it locally for about $16. I filled up a 5-gallon bucket or two of the stuff just because it was so hard to find. But it makes a big difference, in my opinion, in the look of the tank.
You can't see the difference between grey and white too well in these pictures, but the pics were taken to show the shapes of the pillars and tunnels that are easily made with MMLR:
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/mm_live_rock_sept_07/bridges.jpg" border="0" alt="">
And here's what the white cement looks like - NEW - in the tank
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/tank_side_new_MMLR_20070917_650.jpg" border="0" alt="">
goldmaniac
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15403794#post15403794 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sikpupy
Thats pretty good. I think it looks better than mine.
Not at all, Sik, just takes time. But thank you. I am glad I got creative with the bridges and tunnels, though.
goldmaniac
New member
Found my entry from 2008:
"I like a 1:1:2 ratio of cement: tank sand : Mortons Water Softener salt found at Lowe's or Home Depot, blue bag."
looking back, I'd even reduce the salt ratio to a little under 1. My first batch resulted in a few pieces crumbling over the years.
so I'd go with this ratio: 2:3:2 portland Cement:tank substrate:salt
for "tank substrate", i used old refugium sand that was exhausted, the 'sugar size' stuff. But i did make a batch with larger substrate, crushed coral , and it came out just as good. I think the crushed coral made the rock a little stronger, actually.
hope this helps -
lots of water changes needed for this, and patience. I bought a pack of 50 or 100 pH strips that you just dip in the water for testing. when pH would hit 9.5-10.0, I'd change the water during Kuring after all cement got about a week in my hot garage.
\lots of water changes until pH stabilized at 8.5
"I like a 1:1:2 ratio of cement: tank sand : Mortons Water Softener salt found at Lowe's or Home Depot, blue bag."
looking back, I'd even reduce the salt ratio to a little under 1. My first batch resulted in a few pieces crumbling over the years.
so I'd go with this ratio: 2:3:2 portland Cement:tank substrate:salt
for "tank substrate", i used old refugium sand that was exhausted, the 'sugar size' stuff. But i did make a batch with larger substrate, crushed coral , and it came out just as good. I think the crushed coral made the rock a little stronger, actually.
hope this helps -
lots of water changes needed for this, and patience. I bought a pack of 50 or 100 pH strips that you just dip in the water for testing. when pH would hit 9.5-10.0, I'd change the water during Kuring after all cement got about a week in my hot garage.
\lots of water changes until pH stabilized at 8.5
SpankythePyro
New member
I won't be using salt though...so perlite is the answer as it is more cost effective than oyster shells (can't find those), and crushed coral.
Also Gold, how did you get it to form arches like that? What was the actual driping/sculpting process?
Also Gold, how did you get it to form arches like that? What was the actual driping/sculpting process?
As mentioned by a few here, I would not use perlite. It could harbor bacteria if not mixed in right, plus the weight is not really an issue, some weight is good to keep them down and stable. As for the use of refugium sand you will need to thoroughly clean your sand before using it. The detritus will weaken the rocks.
Use the sand for the main mixture of the rocks and the crushed coral to the outside of the rock for looks. A good mixture should be 1:1:1 using larger than rock salt.
I like to use lime in my concrete it makes it more of a clay consistency. I am not sure the effects of the higher lime concentration in our tanks but it could be good.
Use the sand for the main mixture of the rocks and the crushed coral to the outside of the rock for looks. A good mixture should be 1:1:1 using larger than rock salt.
I like to use lime in my concrete it makes it more of a clay consistency. I am not sure the effects of the higher lime concentration in our tanks but it could be good.
SpankythePyro
New member
Only prob is I want a cheap aggregate and I do not want to weaken the rock with salt as I will be steaming this rock. Oyster shells get a bit heavy, crushed coral even more. I am going to texture the outside with dampened sand.
Don't we want to harbor bacteria?
edit: Is quikcrete play sand good enough as well? It does contain silica/quartz
Don't we want to harbor bacteria?
edit: Is quikcrete play sand good enough as well? It does contain silica/quartz
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Portland Cement is cheap especially if you go with the normal not the white cement, use aragonite, crused coral I would not use play sand. Play sand seems to have smaller fines and looks like it has more dirt. Make your mixture form the rocks, and press whatever you want in the outside for looks. Maybe use a dowell to press in holes.
goldmaniac
New member
Big400: you use that 1:1:1 ratio?
Refugium sand: I found that detrious doesn't really get caught up in the sand, I think it's a non-issue. just pull out the sand or substrate, put it in a bucket, swish it around with some fresh water, pour off the suspended detrious, and do it maybe once more. Then let the sand/substrate dry. done.
I haven't noticed any weakness in any of the rock after my first batch when I used too much rock salt that was also too large of pieces of salt. When large pieces of salt melt away, it weakens the rock too much.
When using smaller rock salt - ideally 1/4" pieces and smaller - the bridges I was making could handle me standing on them, even with sand or other substrate. I'm 180 lbs.
I agree that the lightness of perlite was an issue. without perlite, my rock is so pourous and holey (holy?) that it was certainly light enough for the tank, much lighter than Wild live rock.
again, just my $.02
-----------------
SpankyThePyro:
I made arches by using mail crates, and going layer by layer.
- make a layer of salt in the milk crate
- add four golfball-sized piles of mixed cement.
- fill in the milk crate up to the top of the piles of cement
- add more cement to the piles
- fill in the milk crate a little more, again to the tops of the piles of cement.
- add cement again, repeat.
- when you want to connect the 'columns' of cement you're making, just pile a line of cement from one column to another
- fill with salt up to the top of the cement, again
- repeat
- repeat
- etc.
I found that I could fit two of my bridge structures in a milk crate, each with four 'legs' and accompanying bridges between the legs, and get it done in an hour's time, including the making and clean-up of the 5-gallon bucket of mixed cement.
I used latex gloves and wore a mask.
The footprint of the four columns came out to make a lower-case y. this way, I could make two at a time in a single crate.
I can stack my bridges upside down, sideways, crooked, whatever, and they always seem to look good. People notice the holes the fish swim through but never the actual pieces.
goldmaniac
New member
I'm looking back at my posts and see that this doesn't make sense:
I mentally leaped thinking that the Salt ratio was started at :1 instead of :2
My suggested mix: 1:1:2 or maybe even 2:2:3 (by volume) of Portland cement:sand:rock salt if the granules of the rock salt is more than 3/8". larger salt rocks make weaker points in your MMLR when it all melts away.
I mentally leaped thinking that the Salt ratio was started at :1 instead of :2
My suggested mix: 1:1:2 or maybe even 2:2:3 (by volume) of Portland cement:sand:rock salt if the granules of the rock salt is more than 3/8". larger salt rocks make weaker points in your MMLR when it all melts away.
SpankythePyro
New member
argonite sand gets expensive!
So you used a milk not mail crate, and you basically used the salt as a filler? As you added more concrete you added salt around it? The added more concrete.
I'm at a crossroads here lol. I might just used Calcium Carbonate (chicken grit) instead of sand.
goldmaniac
New member
I'm Sorry - MAIL crate. U.S.P.S. crate.
What I'm picturing as milk crates have holes in the bottom. Mail crates around here do not.
yes, i used salt in the cement mix to make it pourous, and also used rock salt as filler in the mail crate.
Chicken grit sounds fine. I'd give it a rinse ahead of time, but otherwise it's good to go. calcium carbonate is okey-dokey.
This is why I recycled the refugium sand and used it in the mix. It's free, it's safe for the tank, and i know where it's been. And it's free.
\ if another of my fishtank projects is going to take up my time, it better be a bargain!!
And I found that when using rock salt to surround the cement as it dries, it creates a texture on its own and you don't have to push substrate onto the surface for a nice look.
What I'm picturing as milk crates have holes in the bottom. Mail crates around here do not.
yes, i used salt in the cement mix to make it pourous, and also used rock salt as filler in the mail crate.
Chicken grit sounds fine. I'd give it a rinse ahead of time, but otherwise it's good to go. calcium carbonate is okey-dokey.
This is why I recycled the refugium sand and used it in the mix. It's free, it's safe for the tank, and i know where it's been. And it's free.
\ if another of my fishtank projects is going to take up my time, it better be a bargain!!
And I found that when using rock salt to surround the cement as it dries, it creates a texture on its own and you don't have to push substrate onto the surface for a nice look.
goldmaniac
New member
Here's a picture of the last batch of live rock, Freshly introduced into the tank so you can see how the White cement looks -
keep in mind - this is freshly added MMLR
April 2008
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/fishtank_20080419/fishtank2_20080420_crop_600.jpg" border="0"
alt="">
more pictures by clicking my Red House
keep in mind - this is freshly added MMLR
April 2008
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/fishtank_20080419/fishtank2_20080420_crop_600.jpg" border="0"
alt="">
more pictures by clicking my Red House
darkdruid
New member
I have a question about adding something to the rock to make it lighter and more porous. How would adding shells work? I don't mean crushed shells, I mean empty snail shells, astrea, nerite, cerith, nassarius, etc. Between me working at a wholesaler and collecting my own, I have bags full of them. The empty space in the shells should really lighten up the rock with nothing to desolve like salt or pasta. Not to mention that any showing on the surface of the rock would look cool. Is there any reason it wouldn't work?
SpankythePyro
New member
I just got chciken grit but it says its made of granite? How would that work as granite is a silicate?
EDIT: yea granite grit doesn't work.
Also I'm still looking for sand, don't really want to buy "aquarium" sand, anyone have any alternatives?
My oyster shells are also very small, are they supposed to be the size of say an pencil eraser? lol
EDIT: yea granite grit doesn't work.
Also I'm still looking for sand, don't really want to buy "aquarium" sand, anyone have any alternatives?
My oyster shells are also very small, are they supposed to be the size of say an pencil eraser? lol
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rguyler
New member
You can use silica sand. Randy Holmes-Farley couldn't confirm any truth to the leaching myth and there are many people on RC who use it with no ill affects. I personally don't like it in my tank because it scratches the glass very easily but being a component of your rock will make that a moot point.
